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No power at ignition switch #2493157
05/07/18 12:34 PM
05/07/18 12:34 PM
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When I put my car away for the winter all was fine. Yesterday, when I went to start it to move it out of storage there was no power at the key. I was able to start it by jumping the starter relay and got the car to my garage. When I shut it off and tried again, same thing. Any ideas on what might be the problem?

Re: No power at ignition switch [Re: 1970RT] #2493169
05/07/18 01:13 PM
05/07/18 01:13 PM
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sounds like it might have a bad ignition switch, or a connection problem somewhere. you need to look at the ign1 and ign2 wires from the ign switch.
one is working ok if it stayed running when you had the key in the run position.
basically it sounds like you aren't getting 12v power to the ballast resistor when the key is in the crank position.

Re: No power at ignition switch [Re: 1970RT] #2493173
05/07/18 01:24 PM
05/07/18 01:24 PM
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Jiggle nuet safety wire on side of trans, jiggle shifter too while trying to start, and look at starter relay wiring for looseness or crud.

Re: No power at ignition switch [Re: 1970RT] #2493203
05/07/18 02:29 PM
05/07/18 02:29 PM
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Corrosion one some of the contacts, probably scope
What year and brand of car ?


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Re: No power at ignition switch [Re: 1970RT] #2493223
05/07/18 03:03 PM
05/07/18 03:03 PM
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when you say no start I am assuming you mean no crank? If so, have a helper hold the key to start & see if you have fire at the yellow wire "ign" terminal on the starter relay & if not, seperate the black bulkhead connector & reinstall it which might be enough to restore continuity in that connection between the two halves & also with your meter see if it is hot with the key held to start & if not then check the connector at the ign sw. if the yellow wire starter relay ign terminal is hot then pull the connector off of the male "grn" starter relay terminal & ground the SR terminal (not the wire/connector you removed from it) to ground & now see if it will crank & if so there is an open back to the trans NSS switch on the side of the automatic trans or the clutch pedal switch (iirc, not a stick guy)) if a stick. If it will crank but no start pull the yellow wire off of the "ign" terminal to disable the starter (keeps the battery from being run down) & with the key held to start see if the coil positive primary terminal & the ECU hot wire (usually red on OE) at the pentastar ECU connector is hot & if a 5 pin ECU/4 terminal "dual" ballast setup the red/green terminal must be hot also. that'd be a start. (Pun intended)


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Re: No power at ignition switch [Re: 1970RT] #2493331
05/07/18 07:41 PM
05/07/18 07:41 PM
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IF no crank try holding the key it the start position and move the shifter between park and neutral WITH YOUR FOOT ON THE BRAKE. That will eliminate a shift linkage adjustment issue causing the neutral safety switch to not work correctly.

Re: No power at ignition switch [Re: stumpy] #2493561
05/08/18 11:27 AM
05/08/18 11:27 AM
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look at steering column to harness connection also, for bad/burnt/melted wires. have seen many problems there over the years.
beer

Re: No power at ignition switch [Re: 1970RT] #2493677
05/08/18 04:09 PM
05/08/18 04:09 PM
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"Corrosion one some of the contacts, probably
What year and brand of car ?"

1970 340 Dart.

"when you say no start I am assuming you mean no crank?"

Yes, nothing happens when I turn the key. When I leave the key in the run position and jump the relay it starts and stays running.

Thanks for all of the suggestions everyone. I have tried them all with the exception of changing the ignition switch to no avail. I filed all of the contacts on the bulkhead connector as well as the connectors on the plugs. Did the same for all of the wires connected to the starter relay as well as the switch on the trans. I have another column I guess I will have to scavenge the ignition switch out and see if that works.

Re: No power at ignition switch [Re: 1970RT] #2493721
05/08/18 06:57 PM
05/08/18 06:57 PM
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Do you have fire at the yellow wire/terminal on the "ign" terminal on the starter relay? If not, work upstream to the bulkhead & further up to the "st" terminal on the ign switch including its female connector as needed till you find the open. If the yellow wire is hot then permanently ground the male "grn" terminal on the starter relay (which will negate the OE safety feature of not allowing it to crank (move forward) in drive or backwards in reverse (it can now) if that is a concern, or work downstream from there to the trans/shifter to find the actual open & definitely do Stumpys' test first. Holler back


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Re: No power at ignition switch [Re: 1970RT] #2493845
05/09/18 02:27 AM
05/09/18 02:27 AM
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Originally Posted By 1970RT


Yes, nothing happens when I turn the key. When I leave the key in the run position and jump the relay it starts and stays running.

Thanks for all of the suggestions everyone. I have tried them all with the exception of changing the ignition switch to no avail. I filed all of the contacts on the bulkhead connector as well as the connectors on the plugs. Did the same for all of the wires connected to the starter relay as well as the switch on the trans. I have another column I guess I will have to scavenge the ignition switch out and see if that works.

Do not ASS U ME anything when trouble shooting problems, never ASS U ME tsk Especially on electrical problems tsk Take the time to identify the problem starting as Robert already suggested, look for the actual cause ,don't throw parts at it tsk
Good luck, we are here to help up There is no magic in fixing cars, NONE grin
Now, get back to work finding the problem wrench scope You can do thisboogie grin

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 05/09/18 02:28 AM.

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Re: No power at ignition switch [Re: RapidRobert] #2494525
05/10/18 10:03 PM
05/10/18 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted By RapidRobert
when you say no start I am assuming you mean no crank? If so, have a helper hold the key to start & see if you have fire at the yellow wire "ign" terminal on the starter relay & if not, seperate the black bulkhead connector & reinstall it which might be enough to restore continuity in that connection between the two halves & also with your meter see if it is hot with the key held to start & if not then check the connector at the ign sw. if the yellow wire starter relay ign terminal is hot then pull the connector off of the male "grn" starter relay terminal & ground the SR terminal (not the wire/connector you removed from it) to ground & now see if it will crank & if so there is an open back to the trans NSS switch on the side of the automatic trans or the clutch pedal switch (iirc, not a stick guy)) if a stick. If it will crank but no start pull the yellow wire off of the "ign" terminal to disable the starter (keeps the battery from being run down) & with the key held to start see if the coil positive primary terminal & the ECU hot wire (usually red on OE) at the pentastar ECU connector is hot & if a 5 pin ECU/4 terminal "dual" ballast setup the red/green terminal must be hot also. that'd be a start. (Pun intended)



Still no luck finding the problem. I checked for power at the yellow wire on the relay as suggested and there is power there. I then tried grounding the grn terminal on the starter relay and still nothing when turning the key. I disconnected the plugs from the bulkhead again and ran a small file in each of the terminal slots. I then pulled the bulkhead out of the firewall under the dash and checked and filed all of the terminals there again. I checked all ground wires, tried a new ballast and also another ignition switch and still nothing.

Re: No power at ignition switch [Re: 1970RT] #2494596
05/11/18 12:45 AM
05/11/18 12:45 AM
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If you connect (touch) the starter relay large "batt" threaded stud with the nearby brown wire/terminal which goes down to the solenoid on the starter together with a screwdriver & it will crank AND if you have power at the yellow wire "ign" terminal on the starter relay when the key is held to "crank" with a helper with the "grn" starter relay terminal grounded to a nearby ground and the starter at that point in time will not crank then the starter relay is open (bad). In the first sentence, the procedure: Lay the screwdriver on the threaded stud then touch the nearby brown wire terminal so the sparks (contact) is at the brown wire terminal as opposed to the threads on the stud (not a dealbreaker but a bit more better procedure) & a jumper with a pair of alligator clips is even better.


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Re: No power at ignition switch [Re: 1970RT] #2494602
05/11/18 01:00 AM
05/11/18 01:00 AM
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Freeport IL USA
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Here is how the power flows from the ignition switch to the starter relay, and then from the relay to through the park/neutral switch, and then from the relay to the starter. You can test the power with a volt meter or a 1 volt test light.

If you have power to the yellow wire from the ignition switch when the key is held in the crank position, and no power to the yellow wire at any other time, the ignition switch is working.

From the switch, the yellow wire goes through the bulkhead connector. If you have power to the yellow wire after the bulk head connector, the bulkhead connector is good.

After the bulk head connector, the yellow wire connects to the starter relay. If you have power to the yellow wire at the starter relay, everything up to that point is good.

For the starter relay to work, power to the small brown wire on the relay has to pass through the park/neutral switch on the trans. After the switch trans, the wire through the park/neutral switch goes to ground to complete the circuit. If the power can't pass through the park/neutral switch, due to the transmission not being in park or neutral, or because of a defective switch, the power can't reach ground and the starter relay won't power the starter. If you ground the wire that goes through the park/neutral switch with a test light, you will complete the circuit, the starter may function. If the starter functions when the wire to the park/neutral switch is grounded, suspect a defective switch, or poor wiring, or a poor ground after the switch (assuming the trans is in park or neutral).

If the relay is powered through the park neutral switch, the small wire going to the starter will be powered with battery voltage when the relay functions. If the wire going to the starter is powered when the ignition switch is in the crank position, everything up to and through the relay is working.

If the wire to the starter has power but the starter does not run, The problem may be the wire to the starter itself, or the starter itself. I have seen the two prong terminal on the starter go bad inside. It looks good, but does not pass power through it.

If the motor will turn when the starter relay is jumped (or bypassed), the wires to the starter are OK.

The system is not complex. You simply follow the power supply through the system. When you reach a point the power in no longer present, you look for the problem between where the power last was to where it ended. Gene

Re: No power at ignition switch [Re: poorboy] #2496826
05/16/18 01:27 PM
05/16/18 01:27 PM
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After trying everything I can think of and following the suggestions here, I still have not been able to find the problem. With the ignition switch held in the start position, I have power in the yellow wire from the ignition switch to the steering column plug, out of the plug to the bulkhead under the dash, out of the bulkhead on the engine side and to the starter relay. I have tried 2 other starter relays (one new). I have held the key forward and moved the shufter in and out of gear as well as wiggled it. I jumped the connections on the neutral safety switch plug. I have checked and cleaned all ground wires that I could find. As I mentioned earlier, I pulled off all of the bulkhead plugs and cleaned all of the connectors as well as the bulkhead itself both under the hood and under the dash. The only thing I haven't done anything with is the starter/solonoid. Since I can start the car by jumping the starter relay, even though that indicates the starter is good, what about the solonoid? When I jump the starter relay, does that bypass the solonoid or would the fact that the car starts indicate that the solonoid is good as well?

Re: No power at ignition switch [Re: 1970RT] #2496891
05/16/18 05:23 PM
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You jump the large/small terminals on the starter & it will crank. You jump the starter relay large terminal to the nearby brown wire solenoid terminal (has a mini screw holding the terminal to the relay terminal) & it will crank. With the key held to start by a helper you have voltage at the yellow wire "ign" terminal at the starter relay. All correct so far? SR has been replaced so we'll assume it is good. ALL that is left is the "grn" male terminal on the SR needs to be grounded. (1) jump 12V to the yellow wire "ign" terminal to confirm it is getting enough amperage (2) ground the SR base to ground (usually its wide base/mounting bolt takes care of that but check it) & not sure a SR needs to have a good ground but we have a difficult case here so I would check it. (3) ground the male "grn" male terminal on the starter relay to nearby ground & try cranking again.


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Re: No power at ignition switch [Re: 1970RT] #2496899
05/16/18 05:46 PM
05/16/18 05:46 PM
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Remove Starter relay, clean/sand back of relay and area where it attaches on car to confirm you have good ground. If relay does not have good ground you can have a no start issue at the key.

Re: No power at ignition switch [Re: 1970RT] #2497037
05/17/18 12:33 AM
05/17/18 12:33 AM
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You can bypass the park/neutral switch by connecting a wire from the park/neutral terminal on the starter relay and grounding that wire to a good ground. This will bypass the park/neutral switch and the wiring associated with it. This should allow the starter to crank. Be careful, the starter will crank with the trans in any gear.

If it cranks with the key with the park switch terminal on the starter relay grounded, the park switch, or the wiring to or from it is bad.

Are these starter relays you are installing all new, or are they known to be good? Today's switches are crap, new does not mean they are good anymore. I installed 4 new headlight switches in a car before I got one switch the functioned correctly. Gene

Re: No power at ignition switch [Re: 1970RT] #2499468
05/23/18 01:40 PM
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Just curious if you found the solution to your issue?

Re: No power at ignition switch [Re: Govierjr.] #2499605
05/23/18 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted By Govierjr.
Just curious if you found the solution to your issue?


Yep, just got it solved. It was as mentioned, the starter relay not getting a good ground to the body. Kind of strange though since I had removed and replaced it with the two other relays and then put the original one back on (when the others didn't work) that the car still wouldn't start. I would have thought with all of that that at some point contact would have been made with one of the relays. Plus, I had also wire wheeled the threads on the mounting bolts and ran a wire brush through the holes which didn't do anything. In frustration, I just gave the SR a tug to make sure it was bolted down tight (which it was) and the car started when I tried it. The car has started each time I have tried starting it since. shruggy Thanks to everyone for their input and suggestions, I appreciate it.

Re: No power at ignition switch [Re: 1970RT] #2499738
05/23/18 11:26 PM
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I'm glad you got it & I learned something. (I thought on an auto app that it was grounded at/from the "grn" terminal down thru the NSS).


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