Running Rotella Oil in a 4.7, A Bad Idea?
#118054
09/09/08 01:58 PM
09/09/08 01:58 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,075
United States
STLDuster
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,075
United States
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I have some Rotella Motor Oil sitting at home that was intended for another project. I just so happen to have enough for my next oil change in my WJ. (an '01 Jeep Grand Cherokee with a 4.7 liter). I always run WIX Oil Filters and for the past 30,000 miles I have started putting thicker oil in it (10W40 or thicker). It had developed some valve train noise more than likely from high mileage (140,000 miles).
Would it be a bad idea to use up the Rotella in my WJ for the next oil change? I don't like to change oil brands alot, I have been running the Ford Motorcraft synthetic blend for a couple of years now.
Let me know what you think.
"No great genius has ever existed without some touch of madness." - Aristotle
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Re: Running Rotella Oil in a 4.7, A Bad Idea?
[Re: Dakota_Don]
#118060
09/09/08 03:10 PM
09/09/08 03:10 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,819
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,819
Kirkland, Washington
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Quote:
is the zinc in the rotella a BAD idea to use because it can damage the Cat??
The zinc and the phosphorous (they go hand in hand)are harder on the cat--true. But you're really talking over the long haul. The EPA forced the automotive industry to guarantee (or at least offer a longer 'expected lifespan')the emissions systems (I think they're at 10 years 120K??), and in order to do this the zinc and phosphorous levels in the oils are being reduced.
If you live in an emissions testing area, or are trying to remain as environmentally conscious as possible, and you tend to keep your cars a long time, you might consider avoiding diesel oils (Rotella, Chevron Delo etc)
Its sorta like valve seat recession vs. unleaded fuel---you may or may not experience a problem down the road
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Re: Running Rotella Oil in a 4.7, A Bad Idea?
[Re: STLDuster]
#118061
09/09/08 03:12 PM
09/09/08 03:12 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
MattW
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
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Quote:
I have some Rotella Motor Oil sitting at home that was intended for another project. I just so happen to have enough for my next oil change in my WJ. (an '01 Jeep Grand Cherokee with a 4.7 liter). I always run WIX Oil Filters and for the past 30,000 miles I have started putting thicker oil in it (10W40 or thicker). It had developed some valve train noise more than likely from high mileage (140,000 miles).
Would it be a bad idea to use up the Rotella in my WJ for the next oil change? I don't like to change oil brands alot, I have been running the Ford Motorcraft synthetic blend for a couple of years now.
Let me know what you think.
I have pounded the crap out of my 4.7 5speed and have the same problem. I have been using 15w40 mobil 1 and the noise is still there. I don't think the rotella will fix the problem. You either have bend rockers or the lash adjuster is worn out. I would like fix mine but I was quote something like 16.00 for the adjusters and 8.00 for the rockers. Anybody else have any Ideas??//
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Re: Running Rotella Oil in a 4.7, A Bad Idea?
[Re: MattW]
#118062
09/09/08 03:25 PM
09/09/08 03:25 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,075
United States
STLDuster
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,075
United States
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I am not worried about digging in to it right now, the only time I really notice it is when I start it up early in the morning when it is still cold, it makes some noise and quickly goes away as the oil pressure comes up and is gone when the temp is at up at operating temp.
With a around 140,000 miles on it, I am not worried about the oil ruining my cats, I am sure they are whipped as they are now. From the resonator back the exhaust is pretty well rusted and is in need of some work aswell.
I want to say the oil I have on hand is ROTELLA T 15W-40. I dont remember at the moment.
I have considered trading it on a new Jeep JK or even an SWB Hemi Ram. But I cant come to part with my WJ.
"No great genius has ever existed without some touch of madness." - Aristotle
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Re: Running Rotella Oil in a 4.7, A Bad Idea?
[Re: STLDuster]
#118063
09/09/08 03:41 PM
09/09/08 03:41 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 13,049
The Thumb O' Michigan
Fluffy
Automotive STD Guy
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Automotive STD Guy
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 13,049
The Thumb O' Michigan
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Quote:
I am not worried about digging in to it right now, the only time I really notice it is when I start it up early in the morning when it is still cold, it makes some noise and quickly goes away as the oil pressure comes up and is gone when the temp is at up at operating temp.
This is either the lash adjusters or a broken exhaust bolt, another problem with the 4.7s. 
Not a biggie, just annoying.
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Re: Running Rotella Oil in a 4.7, A Bad Idea?
[Re: STLDuster]
#118064
09/09/08 03:45 PM
09/09/08 03:45 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,861
Riverside, Ca
R70RUNNER
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,861
Riverside, Ca
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 I had to replace the cat on my '00 Dak at 140K (I've always run 10-30 Val in the engine) I'm in Comm-i-fornia, land of smog tests.  The replacement cat was listed at $580 I got a friendly deal from a board member (thanks Troy!)Still a butt load of money! You don't have a location listed but if your truck has to get a state sniff, I wouldn't do ANYTING that might accelerate the wear on the emissions system. Your truck do what you will, it certainly won't harm the engine. Not the green police, but having been down that road, just sharing what might lie head if you chose. You might think an aftermarket cat will get you by? UM... Not in Cal. I fell out of "gross polluter" status but couldn't pass to register with an aftermarket... It had to be OEM to make it on the sniff.  EDIT: on my '00 warranty on emmissions was 8-80 not sure it '01 is different?
Last edited by R70RUNNER; 09/09/08 03:52 PM.
Current cars: 2000 Dak Quad Cab, 2012 Challenger,1970 Road Runner, 1994 Firehawk
1966 Coronet post sedan, 1988 Corvette, 2005 Magnum RT all SOLD
R70RUNNER<---VP Inland Empire Chapter of the MPM
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Re: Running Rotella Oil in a 4.7, A Bad Idea?
[Re: STLDuster]
#118066
09/10/08 06:10 AM
09/10/08 06:10 AM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
CompSyn
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
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Quote:
I am not worried about digging in to it right now, the only time I really notice it is when I start it up early in the morning when it is still cold, it makes some noise and quickly goes away as the oil pressure comes up and is gone when the temp is at up at operating temp.
STLDuster,
Let me see if I understand you correctly. You changed oil grades at approximately 110,000-miles because you started hearing valve train noise? Also from what you’ve stated in this thread, it doesn’t sound like changing to the thicker grade oil took away the noise at cold start-up.
As others have said, it could be loose lash adjusters, or maybe loose lash adjusters due to some valve train wear.
Also, one reason why you could be hearing the valve train noise at cold engine start-up is that the oil is simply too thick. For example, an SAE grade xxW-40 motor oil has a viscosity of around 135 to 165 at the temperature of 104 degrees Fahrenheit (F). But obviously your motor oil temperature is going to be less than 104 degree (F) at cold engine start-up depending on where you live. Although we are not given the viscosity of motor oil at temperatures under 104 degrees (F), we can see from the specs that engine oil thickens as it cools down from operating temperature. By contrast, the same SAE xxW-40 motor oil is rated to have a viscosity of 12.5 to 16.29 at 212 degrees (F). 212 degrees (F) is the motor oil operating temperature, which is not to be misconstrued with engine coolant temperature. At temperatures under 104 degrees (F), your 40 grade oil will be thicker than the above mentioned viscosity of 135 to 165. This can be confusing to some as the SAE numbers on the oil bottle actually represent the grade of the motor oil and not the actual viscosity. A 10W-40 motor oil does not have a viscosity of 40 when your engine is up to operating temperature. This would be incorrect. In reality, SAE specifications state that 10W-40 motor oil has to have a viscosity between 12.5-to-16.26 at the operating temperature of 212 degrees (F) in order to receive the xxW-40 designation.
So this means in the morning when you first start your engine, the oil is excessively thick and does not provide adequate oil flow and protection. When the oil starts to warm up and thin out to its design operating viscosity, you hear the noise effectively go away because the oil started out with a viscosity of 165-plus and then thinned down to the operating viscosity of 12.5-to-16.29. This makes more since when they say 90% of engine wear occurs at start-up.
Your 2001 JEEP GRAND CHEROKEE 4.7L 8-cyl Engine is recommended to use a SAE xxW-30 grade motor oil. The SAE grade xxW-30 motor oils are rated to have a viscosity of around 90 to 110 at 104 degrees (F). To round out the comparison, the same SAE grade xxW-30 has an operating viscosity of 9.3 to 12.49 at 212 degrees (F).
Also, consider that an 0W-30 motor oil will have the best protection at start-up even at 104 degrees (F). 0W grade motor oils are a better choice over 5W and 10W grade motor oils. In fact, some have said that their engine noise at cold start-up was cured by using a good 0W-30 motor oil.
Question: At cold engine start-up, what motor oil viscosity do you want to have flowing through your cold relatively un-lubricated engine?
(A) More than 165
(B) More than 110
(C) Better then the above
If you selected answer (C), take some time and download some Typical Physical Properties data sheets that all the leading motor oil manufactures provide online. By taking some time to study these, you will see that some motor oils provide better cold start protection than others. If you wish, you can start with this Shell Rotella T Typical Physical data sheet pdf file I’ll provide in the attachment at the top of this post.
Compare the ASTM D-445 cSt viscosity @ 40 degree (C), and 100 degree (C).
Note:
40 Degrees (C) = 104 Degrees (F)
100 Degrees (C) = 212 Degrees (F)
Finally, by using an API (SM) rated motor oil, you’ll get less zinc and phosphorous. I’m assuming the 4.7L engine comes equipped with rollorized valve-train like most modern engines. So no need for the higher zinc and phosphorous numbers that can have harmful effects on your catalytic converter.
CompSyn
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