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Increasing compression ratio #979938
04/24/11 10:58 PM
04/24/11 10:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 492
Kansas
BEINGmeISaCRIME Offline OP
mopar
BEINGmeISaCRIME  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 492
Kansas
I'm sure some have read my posts from a few weeks ago about me getting a 440 and what I have planned for the future and whatnot. At the same time some of ya might be getting tired of all my lame engine questions but anyways...

So, its a 1974 440, forged crank, out of a motorhome. It has the 213 heads which I plan on replacing. I removed one of the heads and calculated a CR of about 7.8:1. I wasn't expecting to be at that low of number being a steel crank, but the pistons are .150" in the hole I'd like to shoot for somewhere near 9:1 CR without doing a rebuild of the bottom end. As it sits, there is barely any cylinder ridge, so the bottom end in theory is good.

When I calculated the CR I guessed the 213 heads to be about 90cc being open chambered. If I were to put on a pair of 915 heads, being about a 74 cc or so combustion chamber, that should raise me to around 8.8 CR which would be close enough.

Would that be the easiest way to get me up in compression or is there something else that could be done?

Re: Increasing compression ratio [Re: BEINGmeISaCRIME] #979939
04/24/11 11:46 PM
04/24/11 11:46 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
dOc ! Offline
The village idiot's idiot
dOc !  Offline
The village idiot's idiot

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
915's are a good add-on .. but I would even cut-those another 60.

Re: Increasing compression ratio [Re: dOc !] #979940
04/24/11 11:48 PM
04/24/11 11:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 492
Kansas
BEINGmeISaCRIME Offline OP
mopar
BEINGmeISaCRIME  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 492
Kansas
Quote:

915's are a good add-on .. but I would even cut-those another 60.




I guess I don't understand. Cut what exactly?

Re: Increasing compression ratio [Re: BEINGmeISaCRIME] #979941
04/25/11 12:16 AM
04/25/11 12:16 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
1_WILD_RT Offline
Management Trainee
1_WILD_RT  Offline
Management Trainee

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
The head gasket surface... Cutting it reduces chamber volume... But cutting .060 may require shorter pushrods I believe on the closed chamber heads 1cc = .006 so cutting .060 will reduce chamber volume by 10cc...


"The Armies of our ancestors were lucky, in that they were not trailed by a second army of pencil pushers."
Re: Increasing compression ratio [Re: BEINGmeISaCRIME] #979942
04/25/11 12:19 AM
04/25/11 12:19 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
R
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
RapidRobert  Offline
Circle Track
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
Quote:

Would that be the easiest way to get me up in compression or is there something else that could be done?


some 516's (OK) or 915 (much better) heads & a Voodoo brand cam (not sure which one, not a cam guy) to build some cyl psi. Definitely mod your dist curve/free flowing ex w 68-70 B body HP exhaust manifolds


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Increasing compression ratio [Re: RapidRobert] #979943
04/25/11 12:34 AM
04/25/11 12:34 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 492
Kansas
BEINGmeISaCRIME Offline OP
mopar
BEINGmeISaCRIME  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 492
Kansas
Now I just have to find a good set of 915 heads. Sounds like a plan.

Re: Increasing compression ratio [Re: BEINGmeISaCRIME] #979944
04/25/11 03:12 AM
04/25/11 03:12 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
Too Many Posts
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Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
FWIW, those 915 heads will be more like 80cc where the open chamber heads are 90cc like you already know. To get compression up you have to mill the hell out of the head surface and run shorter pushrods. Then you still have a terrible combustion area design with a tiny chamber and a piston a mile in the hole.

Re: Increasing compression ratio [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #979945
04/25/11 04:34 AM
04/25/11 04:34 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 492
Kansas
BEINGmeISaCRIME Offline OP
mopar
BEINGmeISaCRIME  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 492
Kansas
Hmm... I guess I just bite the bullet and do a rebuild to get compression where I'd like it, down in the 7's seems like it'll be a pig.

Re: Increasing compression ratio [Re: BEINGmeISaCRIME] #979946
04/25/11 02:14 PM
04/25/11 02:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095
Valencia, España
NachoRT74 Offline
master
NachoRT74  Offline
master

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095
Valencia, España
get new pistons what will get 0.10-0.20 down the hole and done... then if you want, get closed chambers heads or cut your actual ones.

even earlier stock replacement pistons will be good enough and cheaper, and will get you around 050-070 down the hole

THE BIG DEAL on post 72 engines is JUST THE PISTON COMPRESION HEIGHT, period.


With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
Re: Increasing compression ratio [Re: BEINGmeISaCRIME] #979947
04/25/11 02:18 PM
04/25/11 02:18 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar Offline
master
451Mopar  Offline
master

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
You could use Brodix B-1 b/s heads, they have 65cc chambers.

Re: Increasing compression ratio [Re: NachoRT74] #979948
04/25/11 02:24 PM
04/25/11 02:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095
Valencia, España
NachoRT74 Offline
master
NachoRT74  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095
Valencia, España
whats the bore on the engine ?

type Mopar 440 pistons on the ebay and you'll find several GOOD AND CHEAP options for good used ones. In the long ( and also short ) even with some mechanic shop job if you can't, will be less headache try to get the right pistons than mill, heads and still be that DOWN IN THE HOLE. VERY DISSAPOINTING IF YOU ASK ME spend that money and still not get what you want

easier and cheaper get the .100-.150 piston raised AT ONCE keeping 90 cc heads, than be able to cut .060 from heads to get around 82cc and still will be .150 down


With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
Re: Increasing compression ratio [Re: NachoRT74] #979949
04/25/11 04:48 PM
04/25/11 04:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 492
Kansas
BEINGmeISaCRIME Offline OP
mopar
BEINGmeISaCRIME  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 492
Kansas
Stock 4.320" bore

Re: Increasing compression ratio [Re: BEINGmeISaCRIME] #979950
04/25/11 07:45 PM
04/25/11 07:45 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
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joedust451 Offline
super gas
joedust451  Offline
super gas
J

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
Your best bet is rebuild it, otherwise it will be doggy trust me, I'd get the TRW forged 2355 sixpack pistons, with a thin head gasket & those 91cc heads, you'll be closer to 10.1, more or less around 9.7.1, it'll run very good with a nice cam & bolt-ons.


75 Duster, 451 10.87 @ 123.58 NA 97 Z28 6sp., 12.01 @ 115 on a 100 shot 71 Swinger. 360 magnum. 12.58 @ 105 78 cutlass, 469 BBC. 12.70 @ 108 on street tires. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2kqNmMfheU
Re: Increasing compression ratio [Re: joedust451] #979951
04/25/11 11:12 PM
04/25/11 11:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 492
Kansas
BEINGmeISaCRIME Offline OP
mopar
BEINGmeISaCRIME  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 492
Kansas
By doing that, I would need to have the rotating assembly rebalanced, correct?

Re: Increasing compression ratio [Re: BEINGmeISaCRIME] #979952
04/26/11 01:48 AM
04/26/11 01:48 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
J
joedust451 Offline
super gas
joedust451  Offline
super gas
J

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
Quote:

By doing that, I would need to have the rotating assembly rebalanced, correct?




It wouldn't hurt, but the nice thing about those TRWs is, there about the same weight as the factory pistons, there were many back in the day that never had them balanced, But that was then, its really a good idea to spend the extra say 150.00 or so bucks, they will/should make sure the rods are all the same weight, then the pistons, then balance the rotating assemble, very simple straight forward balance job.

Back in the day, guys with this build ran mid 12s (with ease) in fully dressed Chargers with a 509 stick, 4.10 gears, 3500 stall, 850dp, Holley street dom. intake at or about sea level, in an A body, you'll have a 11 second ride garuanteed.


75 Duster, 451 10.87 @ 123.58 NA 97 Z28 6sp., 12.01 @ 115 on a 100 shot 71 Swinger. 360 magnum. 12.58 @ 105 78 cutlass, 469 BBC. 12.70 @ 108 on street tires. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2kqNmMfheU
Re: Increasing compression ratio [Re: BEINGmeISaCRIME] #979953
04/26/11 01:53 AM
04/26/11 01:53 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095
Valencia, España
NachoRT74 Offline
master
NachoRT74  Offline
master

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095
Valencia, España
pm sent


With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela






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