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oil pump not priming #974437
04/16/11 05:12 PM
04/16/11 05:12 PM
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Sarasota, Fl
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siggie30 Offline OP
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I have finished assembly and tried to prime my 360 small block (95'). I get no pressure on the gauge. I took the gauge off to confirm the galley was filling to no avail. I removed the engine and confirmed the pump is working, and reseated/sealed my pickup tube. I am at a loss. Any suggestions? Also, I installed a cup plug under the cap near the pump to be sure that oil would go through the filter during assembly, but my filter is not even getting oil.

Re: oil pump not priming [Re: siggie30] #974438
04/16/11 05:46 PM
04/16/11 05:46 PM
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QLD Australia
Keith Black® Offline
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check all the oil galley plugs are in..


--------------------------------
Darren Beale
Keith Black Racing Engines®
Re: oil pump not priming [Re: siggie30] #974439
04/16/11 05:55 PM
04/16/11 05:55 PM
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MOPAR HEADQUARTERS IN ALDEN NY
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hemigod426 Offline
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1st are you turning drill in right direction? are lifters in? try turning crank while priming


MOPAR OR NO CAR
Re: oil pump not priming [Re: Keith Black®] #974440
04/16/11 05:56 PM
04/16/11 05:56 PM
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Conway, SC
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Quote:

check all the oil galley plugs are in..


Most common one missing is the left rear lifter galley plug. It sits right in front of the distributor drive gear.

Re: oil pump not priming [Re: siggie30] #974441
04/16/11 06:22 PM
04/16/11 06:22 PM
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Quote:



but my filter is not even getting oil.




The filter should be as full as possible.

Re: oil pump not priming [Re: dOc !] #974442
04/16/11 06:54 PM
04/16/11 06:54 PM
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Sarasota, Fl
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siggie30 Offline OP
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I have all oil plugs in. I am thinking that the air space between the pump and filter is suspect. I will backfill and reattempt.


I don't even have 1/2 lift, but the other 1/2 is nitroused.
Re: oil pump not priming [Re: siggie30] #974443
04/16/11 07:05 PM
04/16/11 07:05 PM
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Quote:

I have all oil plugs in. I am thinking that the air space between the pump and filter is suspect. I will backfill and reattempt. [/quote put new dry filter on, like napa one with out valve in it, you will feel it fill and full prime on drill motor, it will freewheel,then slower,then huge resistance once full prime. also check your prime tool is engauging pump right


MOPAR OR NO CAR
Re: oil pump not priming [Re: hemigod426] #974444
04/16/11 07:14 PM
04/16/11 07:14 PM
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i agree ... there is NO need to fill filter the pump should easily pull enough vacuum to fill the filter ... make sure the drill is going the proper direction as mentioned above

Re: oil pump not priming [Re: 68_CONV_300] #974445
04/16/11 07:27 PM
04/16/11 07:27 PM
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That is quite odd, you should get oil pressure within a seconds of priming. I usually pack the pumps with vaseline, but either way there should be pressure in system after abit of priming, there seems to be another problem. Maybe pump to cap there's oil bleeding by/ blockage or something of that sort. Is the engine still out of vehicle?

Re: oil pump not priming [Re: siggie30] #974446
04/16/11 07:55 PM
04/16/11 07:55 PM
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Easy way to check things is to take the filter off and then use a speed wrench to slowly turn the pump. You would have to have major issue to not have oil squirting out of the block almost immediately. Once you have oil at the filter then you install the filter and check for oil pressure at the cylinder heads or the back of the block.

Re: oil pump not priming [Re: AndyF] #974447
04/16/11 08:28 PM
04/16/11 08:28 PM
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Sarasota, Fl
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siggie30 Offline OP
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Update: I removed the filter and turned the pump clockwise. No oil was produced. I tried back priming from the oil filter and tried priming with no result. If it helps, the priming rod has about 5-6 inches of bubbly oil on it when I am done.


I don't even have 1/2 lift, but the other 1/2 is nitroused.
Re: oil pump not priming [Re: KillerB] #974448
04/16/11 08:29 PM
04/16/11 08:29 PM
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siggie30 Offline OP
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Quote:

That is quite odd, you should get oil pressure within a seconds of priming. I usually pack the pumps with vaseline, but either way there should be pressure in system after abit of priming, there seems to be another problem. Maybe pump to cap there's oil bleeding by/ blockage or something of that sort. Is the engine still out of vehicle?



No, I have allready reinstalled it. Also, when priming I feel the freewheeling then a bit of resistance, but nothing else occurs.

Last edited by siggie30; 04/16/11 08:31 PM.

I don't even have 1/2 lift, but the other 1/2 is nitroused.
Re: oil pump not priming [Re: T2R9] #974449
04/16/11 08:35 PM
04/16/11 08:35 PM
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Sarasota, Fl
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siggie30 Offline OP
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Quote:

Quote:

check all the oil galley plugs are in..


Most common one missing is the left rear lifter galley plug. It sits right in front of the distributor drive gear.




All plugs are installed, including the internal plugs. Good point though. The engine is technically fully built. I have allready fired it for a short time of about 6 seconds for an electric check.


I don't even have 1/2 lift, but the other 1/2 is nitroused.
Re: oil pump not priming [Re: siggie30] #974450
04/16/11 10:11 PM
04/16/11 10:11 PM
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RapidRobert Offline
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bypass mini cup plug not driven up high enough. good there? time to take a look at the pump/rear main cap/pickup

Last edited by RapidRobert; 04/16/11 10:14 PM.

live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: oil pump not priming [Re: RapidRobert] #974451
04/16/11 10:22 PM
04/16/11 10:22 PM
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Are you turning the crank while priming? It was suggested above and you have not mentioned doing that.

Re: oil pump not priming [Re: Mopar_Country] #974452
04/17/11 12:44 AM
04/17/11 12:44 AM
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Sarasota, Fl
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siggie30 Offline OP
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Quote:

Are you turning the crank while priming? It was suggested above and you have not mentioned doing that.


I turned it 4 full revolutions during priming attempts. Apparently, I think I may have to tear down and look at the block again. When the block returned from the hot tank, I spent alot of time cleaning out the galleys and passages with brushes. I tested the pump with a drill out of the vehicle in a oil container and it worked well, so I know the pump works. Lets say I did miss a plug. I assume it would be caused by a plug between the pump and the filter which only leaves the one that can be accessed through the vertical orafice directly under the sending unit, correct?


I don't even have 1/2 lift, but the other 1/2 is nitroused.
Re: oil pump not priming [Re: siggie30] #974453
04/17/11 02:55 AM
04/17/11 02:55 AM
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I just went through pre-oiling my 5.9 Magnum motor. I installed a new high volume oil pump, Milodon pickup screen and dry oil filter. I spun the pump clockwise with my 1/2" drill and quickly produced 75 PSI of oil pressure on a mechanical guage I connected to the motor. Did you have a gasket installed between the pump and the rear bearing cap? You stated that you noticed bubbles in the oil when you pulled the pre-oil tool out of the pump. Sounds like your pump is pulling air on the suction side of the pump somewhere. Most likely place is at the rear main cap. Also the pickup tube may have a crack in it. Just some things to check..

Re: oil pump not priming [Re: AtomicDog] #974454
04/17/11 09:27 AM
04/17/11 09:27 AM
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Sarasota, Fl
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siggie30 Offline OP
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After reviewing my assembly charts, I think one of the rear internal plugs are missing. I recall plugging the block just after taking it off the stand, but do not recall if I got the internal galley plugs. I will pull the engine and confirm. Thanks guys.


I don't even have 1/2 lift, but the other 1/2 is nitroused.
Re: oil pump not priming [Re: siggie30] #974455
04/17/11 09:40 AM
04/17/11 09:40 AM
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Quote:

a plug between the pump and the filter which only leaves the one that can be accessed through the vertical orafice directly under the sending unit, correct?


As you know it gets driven up the main oil vertical passage from the pump in the rear saddle under the main cap & it needs to b a certain distance up in the block & b between the 2 horizontle "out" passages to the filter & there's a slight recess there for it to seat. You have oil in the pan/pump works/you can feel it catching it's prime w the drill (CW). Sumpin's blocking the flow between pump and bottom horizontle out gallery as the filter is not even getting anything. EDIT take off the sending unit & stick a wire straight down in & see how much depth you have and have a helper shine a light into the lower horizontle passage & see if you see light looking down from the sending unit

Last edited by RapidRobert; 04/17/11 04:37 PM.

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Re: oil pump not priming [Re: RapidRobert] #974456
04/17/11 12:22 PM
04/17/11 12:22 PM
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North East Missouri
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Did you prime the pump itself? Fill it with oil or take the cover off & pack with vaseline. I would also take the pump apart if all else checks out, I have heard horror stories of the pump full of shavings out of the box.


cny25421@centurytel.net 70 Duster Turbo Charged 79 Lil Red Express Bonded Locksmith
Re: oil pump not priming [Re: express] #974457
04/17/11 12:33 PM
04/17/11 12:33 PM
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Sarasota, Fl
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siggie30 Offline OP
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Quote:

Did you prime the pump itself? Fill it with oil or take the cover off & pack with vaseline. I would also take the pump apart if all else checks out, I have heard horror stories of the pump full of shavings out of the box.




Yes, I also checked the clearances. I am going to seperate the tranny and check the plugs. I am sure that it will resolve very soon.


I don't even have 1/2 lift, but the other 1/2 is nitroused.
Re: oil pump not priming [Re: siggie30] #974458
04/18/11 11:34 AM
04/18/11 11:34 AM
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siggie30 Offline OP
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I am still stumped. I am thinking that there may be gaskets for the pump, but I do not have any or recall seeing any. Is there in fact a gasket that seats between the pump and the cap, and is there an o-ring that seats on the shaft? If so, then this would be the culpret.

Also, to confirm, I have cup plugs installed under the cam retainer(X2). The internal plug by the oil pump drive, the 2 rear external plugs, the plug under the oil filter, and the cap plug under the rear main. If there are more than that then they are all in.

Last edited by siggie30; 04/18/11 11:37 AM.

I don't even have 1/2 lift, but the other 1/2 is nitroused.
Re: oil pump not priming [Re: siggie30] #974459
04/18/11 01:41 PM
04/18/11 01:41 PM
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Quote:

I am still stumped. I am thinking that there may be gaskets for the pump, but I do not have any or recall seeing any. Is there in fact a gasket that seats between the pump and the cap, and is there an o-ring that seats on the shaft? If so, then this would be the culpret.

Also, to confirm, I have cup plugs installed under the cam retainer(X2). The internal plug by the oil pump drive, the 2 rear external plugs, the plug under the oil filter, and the cap plug under the rear main. If there are more than that then they are all in.




I don't remember the factory installing a gasket between the pump and the cap , but someone mentioned it above so I think the aftermarket deemed one necessary at some point , can't answer the o ring on the shaft either but that doesn't jog anything in my memory either .

It has to be on the pickup side, it must be pulling air which is why it will not prime. Maybe the pickup tube ofthe pump housing is cracked ? Did you have the pump in the oil during your bucket test ?

Re: oil pump not priming [Re: siggie30] #974460
04/18/11 01:48 PM
04/18/11 01:48 PM
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My Melling HV pump for my 5.9 Magnum motor came with a gasket that gets installed between the cap and the pump. I have purchased many oil pumps over the years and sometimes they come with a gasket and other times they don't.

Re: oil pump not priming [Re: AtomicDog] #974461
04/18/11 01:56 PM
04/18/11 01:56 PM
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Cincinnati, Ohio
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You don't need a gasket, that's not the problem. It's on the suction side.

Re: oil pump not priming [Re: Challenger 1] #974462
04/18/11 08:23 PM
04/18/11 08:23 PM
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Post it when you find it, inquiring minds want to know. I'm dying to hear what it was


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Re: oil pump not priming [Re: siggie30] #974463
04/19/11 03:30 AM
04/19/11 03:30 AM
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Quote:

I am still stumped. I am thinking that there may be gaskets for the pump, but I do not have any or recall seeing any. Is there in fact a gasket that seats between the pump and the cap, and is there an o-ring that seats on the shaft? If so, then this would be the culpret.

Also, to confirm, I have cup plugs installed under the cam retainer(X2). The internal plug by the oil pump drive, the 2 rear external plugs, the plug under the oil filter, and the cap plug under the rear main. If there are more than that then they are all in.


did you use a set of main studs or aftermarket main bolts If so look very closely at the pump to stud or bolt clearance They can, and do, hold the pump from seating onto the main cap, don't ask me how I know that


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: oil pump not priming [Re: RapidRobert] #974464
04/19/11 08:55 AM
04/19/11 08:55 AM
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Sarasota, Fl
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siggie30 Offline OP
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Quote:

bypass mini cup plug not driven up high enough. good there? time to take a look at the pump/rear main cap/pickup




I am curious about this cup plug under the main. When I installed it, I basically installed it flush or slightly recessed. Gathering info about this, I learned that on Chevy engines, the plug is driven pretty deep. Someone here mentioned that there is a ridge to stop the plug at some point. How deep should it really be? And would this prevent oil flow?

Last edited by siggie30; 04/19/11 09:48 AM.

I don't even have 1/2 lift, but the other 1/2 is nitroused.
Re: oil pump not priming [Re: siggie30] #974465
04/19/11 09:12 AM
04/19/11 09:12 AM
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want it here to divert oil out to the filter rather than it going straight up to the horizontle main gallery

6592052-oilgallerysb.jpg (157 downloads)

live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: oil pump not priming [Re: RapidRobert] #974466
04/19/11 09:33 AM
04/19/11 09:33 AM
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siggie30 Offline OP
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Is there a stop? Is this why it is not priming?


I don't even have 1/2 lift, but the other 1/2 is nitroused.
Re: oil pump not priming [Re: siggie30] #974467
04/19/11 10:57 AM
04/19/11 10:57 AM
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Quote:

Is there a stop? Is this why it is not priming?




If that picture is accurate it sounds like you don't have the plug in far enough and the oil is not going past the main cap and the pump is just dumping the oil back into the pan thru relief valve It would appear .

Re: oil pump not priming [Re: JohnRR] #974468
04/19/11 12:51 PM
04/19/11 12:51 PM
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Someone said something naughty ...

Re: oil pump not priming [Re: JohnRR] #974469
04/19/11 04:48 PM
04/19/11 04:48 PM
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I cant recall what it is..but there is a measurment that you can check with a piece of wire down the oil pressure sender passage to check that the plug "is" there and at the right position

around 7" IIRC

most times its over looked and not installed after tanking the block and cleaning the oil galleys

Re: oil pump not priming [Re: scratchnfotraction] #974470
04/19/11 06:56 PM
04/19/11 06:56 PM
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Sarasota, Fl
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siggie30 Offline OP
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I took the cap off and started driving the cup plug in. There is a passage about 2" or so in. I have not finished assembly to check yet, but will post when I finish. Thanks guys.

Edit: Yep, there was a gusher from the top of the block after pressing the plug in.

Last edited by siggie30; 04/19/11 08:14 PM.

I don't even have 1/2 lift, but the other 1/2 is nitroused.
Re: oil pump not priming [Re: RapidRobert] #974471
04/19/11 08:26 PM
04/19/11 08:26 PM
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Sarasota, Fl
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Quote:

want it here to divert oil out to the filter rather than it going straight up to the horizontle main gallery




This was the correct diagnosis. Thanks Robert. To add insult to injury, after the sensor was reinstalled, the oil filter started to spew oil, so I think the adapter fitting is not tight or the interior plug needs attention. I am sure the plug is there, but an easy fix comparatively.


I don't even have 1/2 lift, but the other 1/2 is nitroused.
Re: oil pump not priming [Re: siggie30] #974472
04/19/11 09:55 PM
04/19/11 09:55 PM
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adaptor nipple needs torqued or the big outer gasket didnt seal or both

make sure your fliter plate is not bent in the middle and not pulling the outside edge in tight enuff..you did use a gasket on the block to plate seal correct?

one good mod is to drill 4 more holes in the plate for a total of 8 holes for the filter

Re: oil pump not priming [Re: scratchnfotraction] #974473
04/20/11 07:34 PM
04/20/11 07:34 PM
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siggie30 Offline OP
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Quote:

adaptor nipple needs torqued or the big outer gasket didnt seal or both

make sure your fliter plate is not bent in the middle and not pulling the outside edge in tight enuff..you did use a gasket on the block to plate seal correct?

one good mod is to drill 4 more holes in the plate for a total of 8 holes for the filter




My filter plate had 6 holes. I did have the gasket, BUT it was not torqed down. My engine is running smoothly now and no oil leaks. Again, thanks to everyone for helping out.


I don't even have 1/2 lift, but the other 1/2 is nitroused.
Re: oil pump not priming [Re: siggie30] #974474
05/30/11 01:16 AM
05/30/11 01:16 AM
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I'm dealing with the same issue on my 360/410 right now. Poured in five quarts and it won't pressurize (turning clockwise)

Removed the oil filter and adapter and found it bone dry.

Stuck a rod down the sending unit hole and hit the plug right where it's supposed to be.

I double checked to make sure all galley plugs were installed when I got the block back, so I'm certain that's not the problem.

Reusing this pump from my 340. Looked brand new and worked fine in the old motor.

Running a Kevko pan and pickup. Pick-up depth is right where is supposed to be.

Looking like I need to drop the pan to see what's going on.


-Jim

I can fix it... my old man is a television repairman.
He's got the ultimate set of tools... I can fix it.

Currently Mopar-less
Re: oil pump not priming [Re: 471Magnum] #974475
05/30/11 01:55 AM
05/30/11 01:55 AM
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check the pickup a little closer. I pulled mine and found a crack above the oil level. Swapped out the pickup and it came right up. If not try packing the oil pump with assembly lube.

Re: oil pump not priming [Re: Theorio1025] #974476
05/30/11 03:36 PM
05/30/11 03:36 PM
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Space Station #5
I think my problem might actually be with the priming shaft. It was made from a big block intermediate shaft and the diameter is not reduced at the base like it is on a SB shaft. It's not dropping into the pump drive.

I've got a couple SB shafts I can use to make a new one.

Stay tuned.


-Jim

I can fix it... my old man is a television repairman.
He's got the ultimate set of tools... I can fix it.

Currently Mopar-less
Re: oil pump not priming [Re: 471Magnum] #974477
06/03/11 01:59 PM
06/03/11 01:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,719
Space Station #5
471Magnum Offline
master
471Magnum  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,719
Space Station #5
Turned out my pump was quite seated into the pilot hole. Priming shaft wouldn't drop into the drive.

Dropped the pan and reinstalled the pump. Problem solved.


-Jim

I can fix it... my old man is a television repairman.
He's got the ultimate set of tools... I can fix it.

Currently Mopar-less
Re: oil pump not priming [Re: 471Magnum] #974478
06/03/11 02:02 PM
06/03/11 02:02 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,543
chicagoland,usa
B
buildanother Offline
I Live Here
buildanother  Offline
I Live Here
B

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,543
chicagoland,usa
Oh for Pete's sake! Good you got it covered.

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