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Voltage drops in a 12v 1954 dodge #972443
04/13/11 09:12 AM
04/13/11 09:12 AM
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Magnus_Jager Offline OP
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I have been trying to drop the voltage for the fans and wiper in my 54 dodge. I have tried the two that speedway sells, the first was the finned metal job with a pin on either end, and the second was the ceramic and metal one with a resistor built in.

As soon as I hook one up I get nothing from the engines. They will not move on hi or low settings.

These are stock fans and 2 speed wiper, and stock switches. Anyone have any luck dropping these or do I even have to? They run with 12 and do not seem overly fast on it either. Hell I didn't even reverse any wires on the wiper, as it has three coming out so there is no good way to do it.

Re: Voltage drops in a 12v 1954 dodge [Re: Magnus_Jager] #972444
04/13/11 02:22 PM
04/13/11 02:22 PM
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Rio Linda, CA
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Do they work OK on 6V?


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Re: Voltage drops in a 12v 1954 dodge [Re: John_Kunkel] #972445
04/13/11 04:23 PM
04/13/11 04:23 PM
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They all worked on 6v before I took it apart. I've since installed a new harness and upgraded to 12v, and they still seem ok. I just don't want a fire in my dash from the resistors on those switches.

I have set myself on fire to many times just welding it together.

Re: Voltage drops in a 12v 1954 dodge [Re: Magnus_Jager] #972446
04/13/11 07:52 PM
04/13/11 07:52 PM
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I would think the fans would run on either polarity but the change from positive ground would probably confuse the wiper motor.


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Re: Voltage drops in a 12v 1954 dodge [Re: John_Kunkel] #972447
04/14/11 10:09 AM
04/14/11 10:09 AM
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Polarity is not the issue, the problem is if I use a commercial reducer to drop it to 6 volt the engines do not work, none of them. They are all 6 volt motors from before I upgraded the system.

So has anyone done a switch to 12v from 6, and did you drop the volts for the fans, and wiper? If so what did you use?

Right now I think I will probably just run em till they die on 12v. Which may never happen, as they really do not seem to be over powered, the engines are not getting hot, the switches for the fans have ceramic covered resistors in them and they get hot, but I think they do regardless of 6v or 12v.

Re: Voltage drops in a 12v 1954 dodge [Re: Magnus_Jager] #972448
04/14/11 05:41 PM
04/14/11 05:41 PM
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on my 55 I use 56 fan motors and since I couldn't find a 56 wiper motor I made a 90 dakota one to fit, not hard at all
I don t think resistors are a good idea, they make a lot of heat if they hold up at all
for the gauges I use a small voltage regulator that was also pretty easy to install

http://www.eidusa.com/Electronics_Voltage_Regulator.htm

Last edited by mafo; 04/14/11 05:51 PM.

-65 Valiant,420", all motor,2700#, dot tires, 8,42 @ 160,2
Re: Voltage drops in a 12v 1954 dodge [Re: Magnus_Jager] #972449
04/14/11 07:41 PM
04/14/11 07:41 PM
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It's probably more of a amperage than voltage issue now. Those reducers, at least the ones I've seen, are designed for light duty loads like gauges. You'd probably be better off with a ballast resistor to be honest but I still think it would reduce the current below the level needed to make the motors work. Will they work if you give them a hand starting?


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Re: Voltage drops in a 12v 1954 dodge [Re: Supercuda] #972450
04/14/11 10:37 PM
04/14/11 10:37 PM
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Freeport IL USA
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Just for the record, on 12 volts, my 6 volt fan motor ran much faster then it did on 6 volts, it lived fine until one of the wires shorted out where the old insulation fell off. I replaced the wires to the fan motor and replaced the fan with one from NAPA that fit my heater. The wiper also ran a lot faster on 12 volts then it did on 6 volts. Low speed was about as fast as high speed used to be, high speed on 12 volts was wild. The wiper did not live long on 12 volts, but who knows what condition it was in before I juiced it up? To get a high amp draw 6 volt motor to run on the voltage reducers, you need to have a couple reducers wired in parallel and then 2 in series (4 total) per motor, if I remember right. When I found out I had to buy 4 reducers, I opted to run on 12 volts until they melted down. A ballast resistor does not work either.

The 6 volt started whipped the engine over a lot faster too, made the old engine start easier. As long as you kept the cranking to short crank times, the starter worked fine. If you cranked too long, the starter started to smell funny, didn't seem to hurt it, but I stopped cranking as soon as it started smelling and left it sit a few minutes to cool off. Of course, none of the lights lasted long on 12 volts, and I used a 70s dash reducer for the fuel gauge.

To the guy that used a modern wiper on an older car, I would like to know how you made the wipers work. Did you retain the original wiper pivot positions? I have 1 wiper on my 50 Dodge truck because I can't get the passenger side to move in the other direction from the driver side. The old wipers moved towards each other, and all the new stuff moves with each other in the same direction. Gene

Re: Voltage drops in a 12v 1954 dodge [Re: poorboy] #972451
04/15/11 04:51 AM
04/15/11 04:51 AM
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Finland
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Gene,
I used all the old stuff expect the motor itself, the dakota motor was almost a bolt in,you have to make a new sector arm to fit the motor since the original one doesn t fit the new motor, I guess you could modify the old one too..., wiring was a bit tricky if you want to use both speeds

6585708-Bild0263.jpg (71 downloads)
Last edited by mafo; 04/15/11 05:06 AM.

-65 Valiant,420", all motor,2700#, dot tires, 8,42 @ 160,2
Re: Voltage drops in a 12v 1954 dodge [Re: mafo] #972452
04/15/11 04:56 AM
04/15/11 04:56 AM
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Finland
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you need a dakota wiring diagram to figure it out

here is how I did the gauges, they do work on 12 volt but I don t know for how long

6585709-Bild0261.jpg (67 downloads)

-65 Valiant,420", all motor,2700#, dot tires, 8,42 @ 160,2
Re: Voltage drops in a 12v 1954 dodge [Re: mafo] #972453
04/15/11 09:30 AM
04/15/11 09:30 AM
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Yeah I built the chip volt drop for the gas gauge, amp meter don't care about volts. My directions had me throw a capacitor in as a sort of surge protector on mine. Oil and Temp are mechanical in this beast.

Poorboy I am going to have to send you some beer when this beast is done. You seem to have the info every time. I did have a friend mention using multiples in parallel, but not that might need two in series as well. I currently have 4 or 5 of the bastards, but two different kinds...

2 of these

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Voltage-Reducer-for-Fans-and-Motors,2375.html

and 2 or 3 of these

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Electric-12-V-to-6-V-Reducer-for-Motors,15824.html?parentDisplayId=2375

may be worth saving the wiper, as mine also has the reverse action, meaning they both wipe out from the center.

Re: Voltage drops in a 12v 1954 dodge [Re: mafo] #972454
04/15/11 06:17 PM
04/15/11 06:17 PM
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Quote:

Gene,
I used all the old stuff expect the motor itself, the dakota motor was almost a bolt in,you have to make a new sector arm to fit the motor since the original one doesn t fit the new motor, I guess you could modify the old one too..., wiring was a bit tricky if you want to use both speeds





Ah, see that's the problem, I'm dealing with wipers on my truck. the original wiper motor had the motor in the center with a transmission on each side to operate each wiper, there is no center arm. My 50, my 54, and my son's 55 all had the dual transmission wiper motors. My 48 Plymouth had a vacuume wiper, but it has the center arm, maybe I can modify the arm and connect it to my Dakota wiper motor. I already have the Dakota wiring harness. That will make life a lot easier. Gene

Re: Voltage drops in a 12v 1954 dodge [Re: Magnus_Jager] #972455
04/15/11 06:46 PM
04/15/11 06:46 PM
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Quote:



Poorboy I am going to have to send you some beer when this beast is done. You seem to have the info every time. I did have a friend mention using multiples in parallel, but not that might need two in series as well. I currently have 4 or 5 of the bastards, but two different kinds...

2 of these

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Voltage-Reducer-for-Fans-and-Motors,2375.html

and 2 or 3 of these

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Electric-12-V-to-6-V-Reducer-for-Motors,15824.html?parentDisplayId=2375

may be worth saving the wiper, as mine also has the reverse action, meaning they both wipe out from the center.




I am happy I may have helped you through the process. I seem to learn everything the hard way, so I figure I should at least offer up some of my experiences to save others from leaning like I did. LOL

My problem is I simply can't remember all the details or the things that would have saved me some heartaches anymore. I seem to remember the real big disasters and some of the things I did to cause them pretty well though.

Does your wiper have a center arm that connects to the links going to each side? If so, you may be able to adapt that center piece to a 12 volt wiper motor. Trucks have separate sides of the motor running each wiper, but cars may be different, I know the 60s cars had a center arm, but don't know when they started with it. There are companies that make wipers that work on these old cars & trucks, but I'm too cheap to drop a couple hundred and a half for wipers. Might be nice to actually have wipers that work like they should on one of my old rides......That funny noise your hearing is probably the dollar bill I have a death grip on trying to scream. I just hate to let them go. I have never been accused of being a perfectionist, usually what the accuse me of is quite different. Gene

Re: Voltage drops in a 12v 1954 dodge [Re: poorboy] #972456
04/17/11 06:43 AM
04/17/11 06:43 AM
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On the passenger cars wipers moves towards each other also but uses a "normal" motor, maybe it would be possible to use a similar system on a truck???


-65 Valiant,420", all motor,2700#, dot tires, 8,42 @ 160,2
Re: Voltage drops in a 12v 1954 dodge [Re: mafo] #972457
04/17/11 09:02 PM
04/17/11 09:02 PM
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The truck wipers swing towards each other as well. I suppose a guy could use a car wiper system on a truck, but I suspect you would need to have almost the complete system because I'm sure that length of the connecting arms would be a different length. Even then, you still have to convert to a 12 volt motor.

I've screwed with wiper systems on 30s through the late 50s Mopar cars and trucks, usually trying to adapt a modern readily available motor to the old wiper posts. Most times have been moderately usable. Currently, my 50 cab has the driver side wiper connected to a modified connecting arm (between the post and the motor arm), a modified motor arm and a mid 70s truck motor. I have it function on 2 speeds, but on high, the wiper blade (12" long) will hit both edges of the gasket. On low it stops right at the gasket. The current wiper stops wherever its turned off (does not park). As of yet (about 8 years) I have not bent anything, but I don't run on high very often. I have no wiper on the passenger side.

I've looked at single wiper motor, arm, & blade assembly like on a rear window of mini vans and such, but the sweep angle is too large for the trucks. A 48-53 truck needs a 90 degree sweep, most of the 1 piece windshields you might get away with a 120 degree sweep. I have heard the single wiper from a 60s era Jeep CJ would work, but no one can tell me the degrees of sweep those have either. Most of the wiper/blade assemblies have long blades as well that may cause a problem. Gene







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