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very strange ingition problem with 440 #971310 04/11/11 06:34 PM 04/11/11 06:34 PM
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 134 Anchorage,AK A AK_JH27 OP member
AK_JH27 OP member A Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 134 Anchorage,AK	Hey all have this problem and i think i may have a bad ingition control module, i hooked up my meter to the coil and with the car running it is only showing about 7 volts. shouldnt it be more like 11-12V ? when i increase the rpms in park it revs just fine, but when i put a load on it (driving) the motors pops and its like its dragging a house. This is a new motor and has had this problem since day one. could a bad module cause the lack of power?

Re: very strange ingition problem with 440 [Re: AK_JH27] #971311 04/11/11 07:12 PM 04/11/11 07:12 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska	I'd say not the module. Check plugs/wires/rotor phasing/vac leak live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: very strange ingition problem with 440 [Re: RapidRobert] #971312 04/11/11 07:17 PM 04/11/11 07:17 PM
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 134 Anchorage,AK A AK_JH27 OP member
AK_JH27 OP member A Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 134 Anchorage,AK	never heard of rotor phasing, whats that?

Re: very strange ingition problem with 440 [Re: AK_JH27] #971313 04/11/11 07:34 PM 04/11/11 07:34 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska	ahhh Rotor Phasing, one of my (two) Mopar obsessions. Due to stackup of tolerances when it fires the rotor may b just far enough away from the underside of the dist cap terminal that it misfires under load but OK w no load. check by drilling a 1/2" hole in the top flat of the dist cap 2/3 of the way between the center terminal and the #1 terminal closer to the #1 terminal and shine your timing light down on it at a high enough rpm where the mechanical slots are maxed out and at a high enough vac (low load which is not to b confused w the high load that it misses at) so that the vac adv is maxed also & see how far the metal rotor blade tip is from the underside of the #1 cap terminal at speed and note that vac adv shifts phasing opposite the direction of rotor rotation. It is set in stone but can b changed by modding some parts and does not change w timing but vac adv does change it. This hole also vents ionized air which slightly contributes to misfire like the air space under a tree struck by lightning becomes electrified. If the distance is too great it will miss under load just like a plug w way too much gap but I'd check the others first. Holler when you discover what it is live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: very strange ingition problem with 440 [Re: AK_JH27] #971314 04/11/11 07:43 PM 04/11/11 07:43 PM
Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,154 bethlehem pa M mikemee1331 master
mikemee1331 master M Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,154 bethlehem pa	not to disagree with Robert, as he might be right, but you should be a 12-14 volts and it is the job of the voltage regulator to maintain that.

Re: very strange ingition problem with 440 [Re: mikemee1331] #971315 04/11/11 08:06 PM 04/11/11 08:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,788 Greer, SC TooMany62s top fuel
TooMany62s top fuel Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,788 Greer, SC	I believe with the engine running the coil voltage is supplied through the ballast resistor. Therefore depending on the resistor the voltage will be less than 12V. 7V may actually be ok.

Re: very strange ingition problem with 440 [Re: AK_JH27] #971316 04/11/11 08:08 PM 04/11/11 08:08 PM
Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,216 Under My Car Mopar_Country pro stock
Mopar_Country pro stock Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,216 Under My Car	Quote: Hey all have this problem and i think i may have a bad ignition control module, i hooked up my meter to the coil and with the car running it is only showing about 7 volts. shouldn't it be more like 11-12V ? when i increase the rpm's in park it revs just fine, but when i put a load on it (driving) the motors pops and its like its dragging a house. This is a new motor and has had this problem since day one. could a bad module cause the lack of power? If you are running a ballast resistor that would be about right 7-9 volts. It should get a full 12 volts when cranking and the run circuit drops to a lower voltage.

Re: very strange ingition problem with 440 [Re: TooMany62s] #971317 04/11/11 09:32 PM 04/11/11 09:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2010 Posts: 606 Montana Y Yancy Derringer mopar
Yancy Derringer mopar Y Joined: Oct 2010 Posts: 606 Montana	Quote: I believe with the engine running the coil voltage is supplied through the ballast resistor. Therefore depending on the resistor the voltage will be less than 12V. 7V may actually be ok. Actually they generally do run higher than 7v it depends on: engine RPM what resistance the ballast happens to be in this import world what coil you are running and even a stocker may be "slightly hotter" one out of 100, etc This is strickly a function of: How good the wire connection is through the bulkhead to the ign switch, although the regulator (which "senses" off this line) is going to TRY and keep it at 14V running RPM, which changes the duty cycle of the on/ off pulse, which is what you are reading the "average of" The resistance of the ballast, AND it's temperature characteristics. I frankly doubt--with the stories we hear about ballast failure rates nowadays---that they are 'what hey once were' The current draw of the coil you are running The more current the coil draws, the lower it pulls the voltage reading. "Ohm's law." This voltage has nothing to do with rotor phasing (Bad) rotor phasing is quite simply that the points/ pickup/ advance system causes the spark to occur when the rotor is coming around NOT pointing to the tower contacts. Frankly I think this is over rated. A SIMPLE WAY to tell if you have a big phasing problem is SIMPLY LOOK INSIDE THE CAP. If you see "carbon tracks" either "leaving" or "approaching" the cap contacts, then you definately have a problem.

Re: very strange ingition problem with 440 [Re: Yancy Derringer] #971318 04/11/11 11:29 PM 04/11/11 11:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md 3 383man Too Many Posts
383man Too Many Posts 3 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md	Best way to check it is with the key on and eng off. This way the current is flowing to ground and with a standard Mopar electronic ign and a ballast you should see about 6 or 7 volts. One big factor with the eng running is dwell time. Everytime the ECU opens the coil ground (fireing plugs) you will see 12 volts at the coil and when its grounded you will see about 6 or 7 on the coil + and 0 volts on the coil - side. So with the eng running this happens so fast you get an average of the 2 readings. Also how hot the ballast is makes a small difference. Test it with the key on eng off. Ron Last edited by 383man; 04/11/11 11:31 PM.

Re: very strange ingition problem with 440 [Re: Yancy Derringer] #971319 04/11/11 11:50 PM 04/11/11 11:50 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska	Quote: This voltage has nothing to do with rotor phasing That's not what I said, My phasing suggestion was a possible explanation for why it is not running right under load which he could take or leave. Yancy how did you get that word in your post that big? If I ever get as rude and egotistical as you are I may need that information. It's too bad the Mods dont have the stones to stop some of the nonsense going on here but something trivial like a miscategorized post they are all over that in a heartbeat and I know for a fact Yancy that some people will not post while you are lurking nearby as they dont feel like being jumped on live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: very strange ingition problem with 440 [Re: RapidRobert] #971320 04/12/11 12:04 AM 04/12/11 12:04 AM
Joined: Oct 2010 Posts: 606 Montana Y Yancy Derringer mopar
Yancy Derringer mopar Y Joined: Oct 2010 Posts: 606 Montana	Quote: Quote: This voltage has nothing to do with rotor phasing That's not what I said, My phasing suggestion was a possible explanation for why it is not running right under load which he could take or leave. Yancy how did you get that word in your post that big? If I ever get as rude and egotistical as you are I may need that information. It's too bad the Mods dont have the stones to stop some of the nonsense going on here but something trivial like a miscategorized post they are all over that in a heartbeat and I know for a fact Yancy that some people will not post while you are lurking nearby as they dont feel like being jumped on Rapid don't get your thingie in a knot. I just meant that phasing had nothing to do with the voltage problem, end of story. End of story. Once again, end of story. I wasn't claiming that phasing may or may not be PART of the problem, only that if it was, it was unrelated to the voltage. End of story. REALLY end of story There is no nonsense going on here. I am simply telling him what it is, end of story. End of story. End of story. What do you car how big "the word" is? It was simply meant to be a humorous accent to the posters words. THIS means that you think the poster actually knew what he was talking about. Believe me buddy, if I tell you to 'eff off' THAT is what I'll tell you. I won't be dancing around the word in some sideways manner. So don't get all rile up when there is nothing to get riled up ABOUT I've never told anybody this before, but I'll tell you now. "You need to consider taking a chill pill." Last edited by Yancy Derringer; 04/12/11 12:05 AM.

Re: very strange ingition problem with 440 [Re: Yancy Derringer] #971321 04/12/11 01:07 AM 04/12/11 01:07 AM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 10,198 Someplace you aren't S SomeCarGuy I Live Here
SomeCarGuy I Live Here S Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 10,198 Someplace you aren't	So I'm thinking that "the word" was a jpg or similar inserted. Maybe an IMG from a hosting site??? Just guessing. It took me a few tries to get a sig pic to work at all. That is about my understanding of computers. I want my fair share

Re: very strange ingition problem with 440 [Re: 383man] #971322 04/12/11 06:14 AM 04/12/11 06:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,788 Greer, SC TooMany62s top fuel
TooMany62s top fuel Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,788 Greer, SC	Quote: Best way to check it is with the key on and eng off. This way the current is flowing to ground and with a standard Mopar electronic ign and a ballast you should see about 6 or 7 volts. One big factor with the eng running is dwell time. Everytime the ECU opens the coil ground (fireing plugs) you will see 12 volts at the coil and when its grounded you will see about 6 or 7 on the coil + and 0 volts on the coil - side. So with the eng running this happens so fast you get an average of the 2 readings. Also how hot the ballast is makes a small difference. Test it with the key on eng off. Ron Doesn't the coil draw voltage even when the engine is not running?

Re: very strange ingition problem with 440 [Re: AK_JH27] #971323 04/12/11 01:27 PM 04/12/11 01:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 134 Anchorage,AK A AK_JH27 OP member
AK_JH27 OP member A Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 134 Anchorage,AK	Thanks guys, this at least gives me some direction on trying to solve this problem, i will report this weekend on what i find.

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