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Re: 46RE standalone controller (I think I'll design one) [Re: hooziewhatsit] #961867
02/12/12 08:51 PM
02/12/12 08:51 PM
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Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
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Quote:

Wouldn't it also be handy to have a sensor for line pressure as well? Or at least a way to account for higher than stock line pressures?




I'm not sure if that would be useful, I think the governor pressure sensor feedback is all that's really needed...with customized relationship I don't think the actual line pressure needs to be known; all the shift valve plugs ever see is governor pressure and that's what they react to...that and the throttle pressure they need to overcome. Since throttle pressure can't be electrically controlled the TP linkage/cable can be used for fine tuning.

Starting to feel like an orchestra leader?


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Re: 46RE standalone controller (I think I'll design one) [Re: John_Kunkel] #961868
02/12/12 09:03 PM
02/12/12 09:03 PM
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Oregon
hooziewhatsit Offline OP
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Ok. I had read that line pressure can be increased (a bit) to firm up shifts and keep the clutches from slipping as much under load. Lower governor pressures I guess would just lower the shift points, which the user could then slowly increase to get the shift points they want.

Quote:

Starting to feel like an orchestra leader?



A little Getting as much input as possible, then choosing which stuff to ignore


That all being said, looking at the MS forums, it looks like someone was able to hack their MS TCU to work with an RE. Soo, it may be easier/cheaper to go that route versus a completely custom setup. Or it may be nice to have one that the customer can buy and that just works; no piecing together and finding and loading the right version of code, etc... any thoughts?


If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
Re: 46RE standalone controller (I think I'll design one) [Re: hooziewhatsit] #961869
02/13/12 01:07 AM
02/13/12 01:07 AM
Joined: May 2003
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Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick Offline
Still wishing...
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How about one for the 545rfe? Possible?

Kevin

Re: 46RE standalone controller (I think I'll design one) [Re: Twostick] #961870
02/13/12 01:31 AM
02/13/12 01:31 AM
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Canada
WO23Coronet Offline
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The 46 RE stand alone would be wicked, if one was made for 545RFE that would be even better. Not getting spoiled or picky, either would be awesome

Re: 46RE standalone controller (I think I'll design one) [Re: WO23Coronet] #961871
02/13/12 01:44 AM
02/13/12 01:44 AM
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Oregon
hooziewhatsit Offline OP
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looking around, apparently Powertrain Control Solutions can reprogram their controller to work with the 545rfe, but that thread was from a couple years ago.

It looks like the 545rfe has 7 solenoids to control, which makes it that much more complicated. Again, looks like someone is working on a MS solution, but then you'd have to piece together MS hardware and find the right software.

I'll probably start with the RE, and see if there's enough demand after that.


If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
Re: 46RE standalone controller (I think I'll design one) [Re: hooziewhatsit] #961872
02/13/12 01:47 PM
02/13/12 01:47 PM
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dogdays Offline
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The industry standard for the speedometer cable is 1000 rpm @ 60 mph. So since 60 mph covers a mile in a minute the speedometer cable spins 1000 times per mile.

I like your idea of the speed sensor controller. Even though the use of pressure switches SEEMS simpler, the use of a bunch of mechanical devices almost guarantees that the system will fail at some point. Also, the issue of line pressure has to be addressed. Maybe that shift kit I just bought increases line pressure all the time. Now I have to buy new pressure switches or adjust and calibrate the old ones if that's possible. Contrast that to a stationary sensor counting teeth. Either it works or it doesn't and if it doesn't you replace the sensor which costs $20. At least the sensor in my 4L80E cost that when it went out after 130K miles.

I'm a mechanical engineer and I'm changing out some 50-year-old mechanical governors for digital in our hydro plant, because there are some things that digital just does better.

R.

Re: 46RE standalone controller (I think I'll design one) [Re: hooziewhatsit] #961873
02/13/12 04:40 PM
02/13/12 04:40 PM
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Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
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It seems that TransGo had some problems with raised line pressure when they introduced their kit for the RE and supplied a resistor to fool the factory controller but a programable custom unit probably won't have the same problem.


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Re: 46RE standalone controller (I think I'll design one) [Re: John_Kunkel] #961874
02/13/12 07:56 PM
02/13/12 07:56 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
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Oregon
hooziewhatsit Offline OP
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Quote:


It seems that TransGo had some problems with raised line pressure when they introduced their kit for the RE and supplied a resistor to fool the factory controller but a programable custom unit probably won't have the same problem.




That actually gives me another question: how does the stock ECU know what the line pressure is, if there isn't an output for it? Or is it measuring from a sensor external to the 8 pin header? Or is it Pin 1 which doesn't have a description

Which brings up another question: Does anyone know where I can get the body side connector for the 8 pin 46re connector? I found one on ebay for $50

Also, if anyone has the pinout description or other information for the 545rfe I'll put it in my book for later


If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
Re: 46RE standalone controller (I think I'll design one) [Re: hooziewhatsit] #961875
02/15/12 05:13 PM
02/15/12 05:13 PM
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Oregon
hooziewhatsit Offline OP
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Alrighty, finally got through to the parts department at the local dealership and got some part numbers for the connectors. They are available, even if they're not terribly inexpensive.

RE 8 Pin - 5183475AB ~$45 online
RFE 23 Pin - 5102403AA ~$100 online

Another question:
How would you like to have control over the governor pressure? I could use a 12x12 table with Speed and Load as inputs, and the governor pressure as the output. Then, at higher loads the governor pressure can be increased to raise the shift points. At lower loads the pressure is lower allowing shifts sooner. Then you just tweak the values in the table to suit your needs.

Or, I could have a simple mapping of speed to governor pressure.


If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
Re: 46RE standalone controller (I think I'll design one) [Re: hooziewhatsit] #961876
02/15/12 05:43 PM
02/15/12 05:43 PM
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I would think your tables are more for towing?

for a car, mostly foot on the floor highest shift points that make sense.

part throttle, lower shift points to get it to od soonest.

possibly part throttle kick down. but not sure how that works here.

Re: 46RE standalone controller (I think I'll design one) [Re: Andrewh] #961877
02/15/12 08:12 PM
02/15/12 08:12 PM
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but what will happen if you put in a shift kit or modifications that raise the pressure, will that effect what you are trying to do? Maybe you can have a toggle for: normal driving, performance driving, towing (for trucks)?

Re: 46RE standalone controller (I think I'll design one) [Re: roadrunninMark] #961878
02/15/12 10:12 PM
02/15/12 10:12 PM
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Back home in PA
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Will you guys figure this out soon? I want to buy a couple when they're done!

Re: 46RE standalone controller (I think I'll design one) [Re: BulletBob] #961879
03/08/12 05:20 PM
03/08/12 05:20 PM
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roadrunninMark Offline
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any update?

Re: 46RE standalone controller (I think I'll design one) [Re: roadrunninMark] #961880
03/08/12 05:34 PM
03/08/12 05:34 PM
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Oregon
hooziewhatsit Offline OP
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The update is... nothing new to report. A month ago another client hit me with 3 good sized projects they want done yesterday

I'd still like some more feedback on controlling the governor pressure. I also realized the Throttle Lever will do some of that anyway; at higher throttle positions/load, it will raise the shift points.

Makes me wonder if just a simple user adjustable speed->governor pressure table would work.

Then possibly 2 or 3 of those tables that are selectable for normal driving, towing, etc.


If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
Re: 46RE standalone controller (I think I'll design one) [Re: hooziewhatsit] #961881
03/12/12 12:03 AM
03/12/12 12:03 AM
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dogdays Offline
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Ever been to the Jefferson State Microbrewery? Are they still in business?
R.

Re: 46RE standalone controller (I think I'll design one) [Re: dogdays] #961882
04/22/12 11:28 AM
04/22/12 11:28 AM
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roadrunninMark Offline
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anything new on this Hoozie?

Re: 46RE standalone controller (I think I'll design one) [Re: roadrunninMark] #961883
04/22/12 01:25 PM
04/22/12 01:25 PM
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Oregon
hooziewhatsit Offline OP
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I have the basic block design done and most of the components chosen, just haven't had time to put it all together. Trying to get another product done and out the door.

I'm also working on an RH controller. I'm thinking instead of adding an external pressure sensor to detect speed, it'll be easier (and cheaper) to add an inline sensor to the speedometer cable. Between that and a vacuum sensor, it would have customizable shift/unshift points. And it's basically a subset of the RE controller, so not really any additional work on my part.


If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
Re: 46RE standalone controller (I think I'll design one) [Re: hooziewhatsit] #961884
04/22/12 10:26 PM
04/22/12 10:26 PM
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roadrunninMark Offline
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sounds good, please keep us updated

Re: 46RE standalone controller (I think I'll design one) [Re: hooziewhatsit] #961885
04/22/12 10:47 PM
04/22/12 10:47 PM
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Candler,NC / Myrtle Beach, SC
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JDMopar Offline
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Quote:

I have the basic block design done and most of the components chosen, just haven't had time to put it all together. Trying to get another product done and out the door.

I'm also working on an RH controller. I'm thinking instead of adding an external pressure sensor to detect speed, it'll be easier (and cheaper) to add an inline sensor to the speedometer cable. Between that and a vacuum sensor, it would have customizable shift/unshift points. And it's basically a subset of the RE controller, so not really any additional work on my part.




You may have already looked at it, but Gear Vendors uses a speed sensor in the speedo cable with their units. Since the speedo cable needs to be lengthened for an RH transmission, it might be a good fit.

Re: 46RE standalone controller (I think I'll design one) [Re: JDMopar] #961886
04/22/12 11:22 PM
04/22/12 11:22 PM
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Oregon
hooziewhatsit Offline OP
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Quote:

You may have already looked at it, but Gear Vendors uses a speed sensor in the speedo cable with their units. Since the speedo cable needs to be lengthened for an RH transmission, it might be a good fit.




Interesting. I'll have to look into what they use.

I was tentatively planning on designing it to use something like this.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G2887-1/
Then it would work with any other type of square wave input from other sensors. It would need to be calibrated of course, but that's easy enough.

And/or it would take another pair of inputs to read the sine wave from a reluctor type pickup.


If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
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