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ENGINE RUNS ON AFTER TURNING OFF #958281
03/25/11 03:38 AM
03/25/11 03:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 568
Ormond Beach, FL
7
71STROKERFISH Offline OP
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Ormond Beach, FL
What causes an engine to run on after turning it off.

I built my stroker 360 about 9 yrs ago. I've had it run after turning the ignition switch off too many times. I've been told to decrease the timing, increase the octane....some days it does it(hot), some days not.

6548370-CUDA.jpg (97 downloads)

-dc
SOUTHERNPLAINSMOPAARFEST.COM
2018 Jeep Trackhawk
1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 5.2 AWD-Daily grinder since 1997
1971 Barracuda, 414ci, 6bbl Fitech, 727
1970 Barracuda Convertible, 472 Ray Barton Hemi, 727

Re: ENGINE RUNS ON AFTER TURNING OFF [Re: 71STROKERFISH] #958282
03/25/11 03:45 AM
03/25/11 03:45 AM
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Today? Who Knows?
1_WILD_RT Offline
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To high of an idle, timing, running hot.. If you need a high idle because of the cam & your running an automatic try shutting the ignition off with the car still in gear...


"The Armies of our ancestors were lucky, in that they were not trailed by a second army of pencil pushers."
Re: ENGINE RUNS ON AFTER TURNING OFF [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #958283
03/25/11 03:54 AM
03/25/11 03:54 AM
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Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline
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Both my Charger and my 440 74 Truck do this. Yeah, I shut down in gear but I too would like to know how to stop it. If I lower the idle any more, it'd stall!

Re: ENGINE RUNS ON AFTER TURNING OFF [Re: Kern Dog] #958284
03/25/11 04:01 AM
03/25/11 04:01 AM
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Posts: 27,347
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1_WILD_RT Offline
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Do what the automakers did, add a idle solenoid, hook it to keyed power so when you shut the ignition off the throttle blades close almost completely...

Found this...

http://www.network54.com/Forum/76346/thread/1291263718/Fast+idle+solenoid+on+a+Holley+4150

Last edited by 1_WILD_RT; 03/25/11 04:05 AM.

"The Armies of our ancestors were lucky, in that they were not trailed by a second army of pencil pushers."
Re: ENGINE RUNS ON AFTER TURNING OFF [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #958285
03/25/11 04:11 AM
03/25/11 04:11 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline
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Heck yeah, I can make a bracket like that...It wouldnt be the first bracket I've made. Great idea. Now its on the "to do" list for the Charger.

Re: ENGINE RUNS ON AFTER TURNING OFF [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #958286
03/25/11 04:53 PM
03/25/11 04:53 PM
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Indiana
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Pentastar440 Offline
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Quote:

If you need a high idle because of the cam & your running an automatic try shutting the ignition off with the car still in gear...






'65 Belvedere II - 446-Indy,727 transbrake,Dana 4.56


'38 Plymouth 4Dr - 408SixPack, A518, Dana60 4:10
Re: ENGINE RUNS ON AFTER TURNING OFF [Re: 71STROKERFISH] #958287
03/25/11 04:57 PM
03/25/11 04:57 PM
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Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
RobX4406 Offline
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Decrease the timing? More likely you need to increase the initial to get the carb blades closed down. Is it pretty dirty out the tailpipes at idle?

What's your initial timing and total number. you may have to raise initial and limit the mechanical in the distributor to get the right total number.

Re: ENGINE RUNS ON AFTER TURNING OFF [Re: 71STROKERFISH] #958288
03/25/11 08:00 PM
03/25/11 08:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Upper Midwest
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MoparforLife Offline
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Quote:

What causes an engine to run on after turning it off.

I built my stroker 360 about 9 yrs ago. I've had it run after turning the ignition switch off too many times. I've been told to decrease the timing, increase the octane....some days it does it(hot), some days not.


decreasing the timing is not the solution even when at times it indirectly takes care of the problem. Setting the timing back changes the idles speed and most time slows it. There for slowing idle and making the engine kill easier.
Tiiming the spark (other than changing the idle speed) cannot effect shut down. When you turn the ignition off there is no longer any timing. ignition spark is shut down. It is running on compression combustion.

Re: ENGINE RUNS ON AFTER TURNING OFF [Re: MoparforLife] #958289
03/25/11 09:32 PM
03/25/11 09:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
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Ontario, Canada
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Stanton Offline
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Quote:

It is running on compression combustion.




Exactly!

You have to cut off the source of ignition ... air/fuel or the heat source.

So, you can do the solenoid trick OR you could switch to colder plugs.

Re: ENGINE RUNS ON AFTER TURNING OFF [Re: Stanton] #958290
03/26/11 08:24 PM
03/26/11 08:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 568
Ormond Beach, FL
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71STROKERFISH Offline OP
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I'll give the solenoid a try and look at the cooler plugs. I'm thinking the plugs may be the trick.

I'm running Edelbrock heads and use the recommended Champion plug. Can anyone recommend another plug for Edelbrock heads?

Also, the timing is set perfectly on this engine now. I hate messing with it because, yes the idle is fairly picky even though the cam is a MP 280/.474

Now the pipes are pretty darn black and never really can get the "battle ship gray" as my Dad called it back in the day. I do tend to turn the ignition off in gear...especially around a car show crowd..LOL!

Thanks again!


-dc
SOUTHERNPLAINSMOPAARFEST.COM
2018 Jeep Trackhawk
1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 5.2 AWD-Daily grinder since 1997
1971 Barracuda, 414ci, 6bbl Fitech, 727
1970 Barracuda Convertible, 472 Ray Barton Hemi, 727

Re: ENGINE RUNS ON AFTER TURNING OFF [Re: 71STROKERFISH] #958291
03/26/11 08:27 PM
03/26/11 08:27 PM
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Upper Midwest
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MoparforLife Offline
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Mentioned before but what is your idle speed set at? a very high percentage of the time to high an idle speed is the problem.

Re: ENGINE RUNS ON AFTER TURNING OFF [Re: 71STROKERFISH] #958292
03/26/11 10:25 PM
03/26/11 10:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,708
S. Il. U.S.A.
5spdcuda Offline
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As others have said idle speed is the biggest culprit. What is your idle rpm? I am using more cam [ Comp 284 XE ] with a smaller engine and mine idles at 750-800 rpm. As for plugs, I use NGK BCP6ES stock # 4930 gapped at .045 with a Crane CD ignition. I did need to drill holes in the primary throttle blades in order to keep from uncovering too much of the transfer slots [ 3310 750 cfm vac sec. Holley ]. Hot spots in the combustion chamber can also cause this problem. I have Indybrock heads which of course have the same combustion chamber as your standard Eddys. I found that when I first examined them, that there were some sharp edges around the spark plug holes in the chambers. I ground them smooth along with other bits of casting flash before installing them. Timing is 18* initial, 32* total, all in by 1800 rpm on the mechanical side with 42* total including the vacuum. Hope this helps.

Re: ENGINE RUNS ON AFTER TURNING OFF [Re: RobX4406] #958293
03/26/11 10:31 PM
03/26/11 10:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1 Offline
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Quote:

Decrease the timing? More likely you need to increase the initial to get the carb blades closed down. Is it pretty dirty out the tailpipes at idle?

What's your initial timing and total number. you may have to raise initial and limit the mechanical in the distributor to get the right total number.




Exactly, with increased timing the throttle blades can be closed some which will usually prevent dieseling with the same idle RPM. Yes a idle solenoid would work but with enough initial timing you can usually get by without one.

Re: ENGINE RUNS ON AFTER TURNING OFF [Re: Challenger 1] #958294
03/27/11 11:02 AM
03/27/11 11:02 AM
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Michigan
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crlush Offline
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Depending on your camshaft you may need to take some of the spread out of your mechanical advance(welding up part of the slot and then fileing the slot so its a little smaller than before)I think I took 1/16" out of mine and it runs and idles like a champ. then you can get your timing where you need it and your car will idle properly without having the throttle blades open so far, and it should help with the dieseling.

Re: ENGINE RUNS ON AFTER TURNING OFF [Re: crlush] #958295
03/27/11 01:02 PM
03/27/11 01:02 PM
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Montana
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Yancy Derringer Offline
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This used to be a huge problem for some people after the '70's smog-a-rama got kicked into the slipping, heating, slow gear mess that it became.
It's why cars with retarded timing went to "retard solenoids" on the distributors, and "idle stop" or on some cars (imports) "idle cutoff" solenoids.

Bumping the timing UP so you can close the carb DOWN makes a difference, as does just plain "proper" idle adjustment, and decent cooling system to keep temp somewhat under control.

Or---you could just run a 4 speed!!!

Re: ENGINE RUNS ON AFTER TURNING OFF [Re: crlush] #958296
03/27/11 01:09 PM
03/27/11 01:09 PM
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Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1 Offline
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Quote:

Depending on your camshaft you may need to take some of the spread out of your mechanical advance(welding up part of the slot and then fileing the slot so its a little smaller than before)I think I took 1/16" out of mine and it runs and idles like a champ. then you can get your timing where you need it and your car will idle properly without having the throttle blades open so far, and it should help with the dieseling.






Of course when you give it more intial timing, the total needs to be limited. I wasn't gonna get into all that in my post. But not limiting the timing is not gonna affect idle, it will when you rev it up, but not at idle.

IMO if your engine is dieseling when you turn it off, then there is a strong possibility that there is plenty of room for improvment with the cars tuneup.

Re: ENGINE RUNS ON AFTER TURNING OFF [Re: 71STROKERFISH] #958297
03/27/11 01:09 PM
03/27/11 01:09 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
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Florida STAYcation
dOc ! Offline
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I am SURPRISED no one has mentioned ......

A 9 year old combo .... probably a pig-fat Berri crab .... lots of carbon build-up ON the pistons or IN the combustion chambers ....

GLOWING red .....

THIS is what keeps it going ...

Re: ENGINE RUNS ON AFTER TURNING OFF [Re: 71STROKERFISH] #958298
03/27/11 01:53 PM
03/27/11 01:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1 Offline
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Quote:

I'll give the solenoid a try and look at the cooler plugs. I'm thinking the plugs may be the trick.

I'm running Edelbrock heads and use the recommended Champion plug. Can anyone recommend another plug for Edelbrock heads?

Also, the timing is set perfectly on this engine now. I hate messing with it because, yes the idle is fairly picky even though the cam is a MP 280/.474

Now the pipes are pretty darn black and never really can get the "battle ship gray" as my Dad called it back in the day. I do tend to turn the ignition off in gear...especially around a car show crowd..LOL!

Thanks again!




I've run that exact cam now since 1988 or so in my stock stroke 340s. Same cam in it's third engine. I run 17-18 degrees at about 700 RPMs at idle. I have driven this engine all over the country with jetting and timing changes. From sea level in Key West Fla to driving it to the top of Peaks Pike(14000+ ft! she had to be lean to be mean to make it up!), to driving it for 5 hours at a time at 95 degree heat at 7500 feet in the Serria mountains near Reno Nv. I've drove that cam alot. Great cam imo.

How much timing do you have at idle and what RPMs is your motor idling at? I doubt your timing is right for your engine, don't be afraid to mess with it. It holds the key. I can tell you that a stock or unaltered MP dist won't work without modifications.

Oh yea did I mention Bonneville, drove it 42 miles total on the salt on another 95 degee day. 5 miles of it was at about 120 MPH, your tuneup better be right if it's gonna survive that kind of driving.


Speaking of pipes, here's my pipes after running it at Bonneville. I run the car much leaner when I go out west with it verse when I'm at home. There's about 6500+ feet difference, so the tuneup changes. I ran more timing at higher altitudes also and have to turn down the idle even more.
Not too bad for guessing on the tuneup from home.
BTW it has never dieseled, not even close. It's 10.2-1 motor that is run on 91-93oct unleaded gas.

Re: ENGINE RUNS ON AFTER TURNING OFF [Re: 71STROKERFISH] #958299
03/27/11 07:48 PM
03/27/11 07:48 PM
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Overpriced Housing Central
RobX4406 Offline
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Quote:

Also, the timing is set perfectly on this engine now. I hate messing with it because, yes the idle is fairly picky even though the cam is a MP 280/.474





I'll disagree.

Maybe total timing is set right. Total timing method IS NOT the right way to set street car timing. Many distributors have as much as 28* of timing in them so subtract that from your total number to get a grasp of what initial may be. If you don't know what the initial timing is, it's likely not right. As Challenger mentioned, it will need initial in the 15-18 range to run properly at idle.

The black pipes are displaying a fat condition which happens because you have to mask not enough initial setting with more throttle blade opening and idle mix screw. I've got a 284/528 mechanical in a 340 and it idles just fine, doesn't burn the [Email]cr@p[/Email] out of your eyes and never diesels... It's also got 18 or so initial and a reworked distributor.

Easy way to find out. Reach in and give the engine more advance at idle, if the rpm picks up, you don't have it set right.

Timing first, initial, set carb idle adjustments, total, then curve. Then you can mess with main jet, squirters etc.

Shouldn't be any need to shut that car of in gear.







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