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How long do I have to wait until I can peel out?
#943232
03/05/11 03:15 AM
03/05/11 03:15 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
OP
Striving for excellence
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OP
Striving for excellence
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
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Ahhh... the age old question.
When we hear about a "Break in" procedure for a new or rebuilt engine, what is it that we are doing? I have read about how you should avoid full throttle starts for the first 500 miles and all that, but....
I doubt that all the new cars built until the advent of roller cams had a cam and lifter break in session as we all do with the classic motors we rebuild now, yet how often were cam failures back in the day?
I have read that during the first 500 miles, the rings are seating, the cam and lifters are forming patterns to each other and who knows what else. I have also heard of guys that fire up the motor, break in the cam, then haul ass and never look back. Maybe those guys had to pull their motors at 20,000 miles to slap in another set of rings though!
I'm going to install the 440/493 this weekend and I hope to have it running early next week. I'll be driving to LA next month for the Spring Fling, and it will be the longest that car has been from home since long before I bought it in 2000. The 800 mile round trip will surely satisfy the outline of an engine break in period. I was just curious as to how long other members wait until they let the hammer down....
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Re: How long do I have to wait until I can peel out?
[Re: Kern Dog]
#943235
03/05/11 04:51 AM
03/05/11 04:51 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277
West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277
West Coast, USA
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Do you know the clearance on your rods and mains?
The main thing I try to do is to make sure the engine and oil are up to temperature before I stretch it's legs, don't lug it below 2000 rpm and make sure the timing and A/F ratio is set-up right. After making sure all that's good, get out there and put together some wide open throttle time.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: How long do I have to wait until I can peel out?
[Re: jbc426]
#943237
03/05/11 06:04 AM
03/05/11 06:04 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
OP
Striving for excellence
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OP
Striving for excellence
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
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I set the crank wednesday and the rods and pistons today. I checked all journals with plastigage. Mains: 1 .0015 2 .0015 3 .00175 4 .002 5 .0025 I thought that it was wierd that the clearances got larger toward the rear. No problem though. Its all within the range. All the rod journals are between .0015 and .002. The 7/16 bolts on these Manley rods call for 85 lbs of torque! Also, to recap, this motor was torn down to address an oil consumption problem. The cylinders were honed, Fresh standard rod and main bearings put in, new rings file fitted to each cylinder. I'm reusing the '509 cam and lifters since they are in great condition and I kept the lifters in order. That article in the link has me curious...  I do recall an engine builder way back in the early 90s saying to avoid steady speed driving (like as in CRUISE control) and no full throttle runs. Wow... that doesnt leave much, does it? Cant drive slow. Cant drive fast. What CAN I do?
Last edited by Frankenduster; 03/05/11 06:08 AM.
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Re: How long do I have to wait until I can peel out?
[Re: Challenger 1]
#943239
03/05/11 10:19 AM
03/05/11 10:19 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
scratchnfotraction
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
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I am a 'break in the cam' give it he77 kinda guy rather have it come aprts close to home than 400 miles away if it has no trouble its good to go in my book  my last one lasted 10 yrs and it come out the yard on the cam break in at 4800 rpms after a 5 min idle break in time  good luck  oh! I would use a lot of zinc additive with some good oil then roll 
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Re: How long do I have to wait until I can peel out?
[Re: scratchnfotraction]
#943240
03/05/11 11:52 AM
03/05/11 11:52 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,886
Lost and Spaced
bboogieart
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,886
Lost and Spaced
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The instructions we were given by the dealership were just drive it normal and DO NOT use cruise control for the first 500 miles. The reason for this is to vary the rpm. The rings will seat better if you do not drive the first 800 miles at the same speed. Running the same rpm will develope ring seal leaks at all rpm's but the one the rings broke in at. Vary the rpm and the rings will seal at all rpm's. So break in the cam and go but vary your first 500 miles or so from say 65 to 45 to 65. Get off the free way and do some cruising then back up to 65 down to 45 and so on. Might be what caused the oil consumption in the first place. a little simple for an explaination but you get the idea, right?
I have mechanical Aptitude.
I can screw up anything.
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Re: How long do I have to wait until I can peel out?
[Re: Kern Dog]
#943242
03/05/11 04:38 PM
03/05/11 04:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,648
USA
max
super gas
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super gas
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,648
USA
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Quote:
I set the crank wednesday and the rods and pistons today. I checked all journals with plastigage.
Mains:
1 .0015
2 .0015
3 .00175
4 .002
5 .0025
I thought that it was wierd that the clearances got larger toward the rear. No problem though.
From what I have been told here by my local builders is to step up the bearing clearance towards the rear to reduce the oil pressure at the rear main seal to keep it from leaking. 
Coarse I always run the same bearing clearances all the way through and have never had any issues.
As far as break in time, a bearing is a bearing and it's either installed right or wrong so after about 5 minutes it time to cut it loose besides what do the cam manufactures suggest for cam break in.
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Re: How long do I have to wait until I can peel out?
[Re: Challenger 1]
#943243
03/06/11 11:15 PM
03/06/11 11:15 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,193
NEW JERSEY
AARCONV
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,193
NEW JERSEY
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Quote:
After it runs for about 5 minutes, it's ready.
i agree, built a grand national turbo motor and ran it right in the streets hard with 18 pounds of boost...if it's gonna go it will go..have faith in your build...I did.... 
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Re: How long do I have to wait until I can peel out?
[Re: max]
#943246
03/13/11 04:11 AM
03/13/11 04:11 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,025
Las Vegas, NV
dodgeboy11
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,025
Las Vegas, NV
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Quote:
From what I have been told here by my local builders is to step up the bearing clearance towards the rear to reduce the oil pressure at the rear main seal to keep it from leaking.
More oil clearance will mean more oil spray so that blows that theory out of the water.
The clearances are a little tight for a motor with that large of main journals. Definitely make sure the oil is warm before you start thrashing on it. If the cam is already broke in then the only thing that needs to seat is the rings. The only way they do that is to put a load on them. Which means high gear (keeping local speed limits in mind of course), full throttle and proper timing and fuel mix. First 408 I built for my truck, I broke in the cam, took it a little easy, varying speed and throttle application. Took 200 miles for it to quit burning oil. When the crank broke I threw together a 360 magnum, hyd roller cam, so no break in. Soon as it had warm oil I was running it like it'd been in there for years. It never burned a drop of oil. 1/16 rings on the 408 and 5/64 on the 360 may have had something to do with it, but I dunno. I will say though, I ran a fairly smooth finish on the cylinders and the 360 did start to huff a little oil after 30k miles, but only on decel/high vacuum. Under load, nothing. Thought it was guides, it wasn't. Rings were half worn out. I think they needed a bit coarser finish to keep them oiled.
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Re: How long do I have to wait until I can peel out?
[Re: Kern Dog]
#943251
03/13/11 04:33 PM
03/13/11 04:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,711
Moved to N.E. Tennessee
GomangoCuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,711
Moved to N.E. Tennessee
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1. Break in the cam 2. check for fluid leaks and levels 3. Check and adjust timing, idle mixture etc. 4. drive it like you stole it.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
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Re: How long do I have to wait until I can peel out?
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#943253
03/13/11 08:20 PM
03/13/11 08:20 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
OP
Striving for excellence
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OP
Striving for excellence
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
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Quote:
I swear I haven't heard the term "peel out" in many years!
I like using old fashioned terminlogy sometimes...
Stuff like: What the heck? I'm hip Dang it that really chaps my ass heh heh heh.
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Re: How long do I have to wait until I can peel out?
[Re: Kern Dog]
#943254
03/13/11 09:56 PM
03/13/11 09:56 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,274
s.w.fl
bonefish
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,274
s.w.fl
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Quote:
Quote:
I swear I haven't heard the term "peel out" in many years!
I like using old fashioned terminlogy sometimes...
Stuff like: What the heck? I'm hip Dang it that really chaps my ass heh heh heh.
dont forget DADGUMMITT!!!!
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Re: How long do I have to wait until I can peel out?
[Re: bonefish]
#943255
03/14/11 01:54 AM
03/14/11 01:54 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
OP
Striving for excellence
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OP
Striving for excellence
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
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I wanted to peel out today, but this dang car failed me again. This car seems like a prom queen that is a lousy lover. It looks good but lets me down too often. I went out to start it up this afternoon and it wouldnt start up. To RECAP: After I got the motor in and everything in place, I had NO spark to the plugs. More specifically, I only tested #1 with the plug wire disconnected from the plug at the motor. I put a used spark plug in the wire and looked for spark as I spun the motor. This seems to happen almost every time that I have put in a new motor or cam. I go to start a fresh mill and I get no spark. This time I took a test light and went over 2 other electronic ignition cars to see where power should be with the key in the RUN position, then compared it to the Charger. Everything checked out with the wiring, so I started testing parts. The ECM was bad so I swapped in another one. Still NO spark. I put in another distributor, still no spark. I walked away and came back a little while later. It had spark now but wouldn't start up. The battery was weak so I charged it for 2 hours and put it back in. It fired up on 3 revolutions and ran great! I went out to drive it today and it was back to the same old problem. For some crazy reason the car chooses when to run. I have a hard time believing that 2 different distributors can be acting up in the same way... spark, then NO spark. The battery has a full charge. I had a pal help out. He is pretty sharp with electrical systems and even HE is stumped. This is my big weakness: electrical problems. We took the wiring apart at the bulkhead and cleaned all of the terminals. Still it wont run. As usual, the spark is there sometimes and other times it isnt. What the heck is going on? I'm going to test the distributors on another vehicle tomorrow. If they both work fine I'll have to figure that there is a problem in my wiring. I have already put in a new MSD coil and ballast, a good ECM and a new distributor cap. Just for grins I also tried another ignition switch, thinking that there might be a faulty wire in the steering column. It didnt help. Can YOU ? 
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Re: How long do I have to wait until I can peel out?
[Re: Kern Dog]
#943256
03/14/11 02:07 AM
03/14/11 02:07 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
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check ALL your wires, AND grounds.
you have a bad connection/loose splice/connector, or a bad ground somewhere, and it's showing up intermittently.
electrical gremlins suck. I hate them. I've had MANY rear their ugly heads and stump me for a few days, then I find what it was, and felt like such an idiot because it was always something so simple.
one time I had a no-charge issue, but everything would start up and run just fine. poor connection on my body to negative terminal, but the block had enough of a ground to run the lights, motor, etc. but the Voltage regulator wasn't happy and didn't tell the alternator to charge. another time, i had a no start for a few days. troubleshot it down to a bad coil.
swapped coils, still no start! I was frustrated! walked away and came back the next day. that's when I discovered a bad connection on the positive wire feeding the coil. the terminal was there and holding onto the wire so it appeared to be normal, but the copper strands had lost contact with the crimp somehow. new terminal spliced on, and it fired right up!!
**Photobucket sucks**
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Re: How long do I have to wait until I can peel out?
[Re: 68GTS383]
#943262
03/14/11 10:54 AM
03/14/11 10:54 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 843
Suffolk,VA
ireland383
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 843
Suffolk,VA
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Quote:
I run mine for two minutes at 2000 RPM let it cool down ,check for leaks,take it off of jack stands and leave black marks coming out of my shop!Do you think that engines built for Nascar or for drag racing are broke in? If it is not built right it will fail regardless of how you try to break it in.
 Let her rip!
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Re: How long do I have to wait until I can peel out?
[Re: Kern Dog]
#943263
03/14/11 01:05 PM
03/14/11 01:05 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,589
My Garage / Museum
idrivevintage
Chrysler Plant
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Chrysler Plant
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,589
My Garage / Museum
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Have you thought about your ignition switch? Next time you have a no spark condition just run a wire from the positive side of the coil to the positive post on the battery and see if your good then. I've had a trouble like that before and after replacing the switch was fine. Another thing you could look at is your neutral safety switch, ground out its lead on the starter relay and see if that does the trick. Good luck For what its worth that rubber fuel line and the placement of your fuel filter looks like a future fire I lost one once because of something similar  Just thought I'd throw that out there.........your car is way to pretty to lose to a fire
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Re: How long do I have to wait until I can peel out?
[Re: idrivevintage]
#943264
03/14/11 03:17 PM
03/14/11 03:17 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
OP
Striving for excellence
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OP
Striving for excellence
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
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Quote:
Have you thought about your ignition switch?
Next time you have a no spark condition just run a wire from the positive side of the coil to the positive post on the battery and see if your good then. I've had a trouble like that before and after replacing the switch was fine.
Another thing you could look at is your neutral safety switch
For what its worth that rubber fuel line and the placement of your fuel filter looks like a future fire I lost one once because of something similar
[/quote
Thanks. I HAVE tried to use a jumper wire to the coil and I noticed no difference. I also unplugged the ignition switch at the base of the column and plugged in another. The second switch spun the motor over just the same way without letting the motor fire up. NO change.
I thought about the neutral safety switch, but I thought it only prevented the motor from spinning over, as if the signal to the starter were interrupted. The current setup lets the starter function. At this point I could certainly ground the terminal just to see if it makes a difference.
Finally, THANKS for your compliments as well as the concern on the fuel line. This is an old photo from 4 years ago. The motor looks pretty much the same now EXCEPT for That fuel line. I switched to a glass filter and routed it further away from the distributor.
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Re: How long do I have to wait until I can peel out?
[Re: Kern Dog]
#943265
03/14/11 08:24 PM
03/14/11 08:24 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 16,469
On the run…
BloFish
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 16,469
On the run…
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Have you thought about your ignition switch? Seen that before... amhik 
It really doesn't matter whether you win or lose…
as long as you look good doing it!
‘65 A100
‘69 ‘Cuda
‘73 Vega GT
‘06 Mega Cab
‘14 Mercedes SLK
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Re: How long do I have to wait until I can peel out?
[Re: BloFish]
#943266
03/14/11 10:35 PM
03/14/11 10:35 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
OP
Striving for excellence
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OP
Striving for excellence
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
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Its ALIVE.... AGAIN! Someone once told me that quite often, electrical problems turn out to be something simple. I didnt want to keep cranking on the motor UNTIL it got spark, so I took 2 other distributors to test on the cars wiring. I used a spare cap and wires with used spark plugs in them with the distributor laying on the motor. I spun the dist. shaft and got spark from all the plugs laying on the intake. I stepped away for a moment and tried again. NOTHING. This was interesting. I have 3 distributors doing the same thing...intermittent spark. I decided to unwrap the wiring to look for tears in the insulation or anything obvious. The blue wire from the ECM to the ballast had a loose contact at the solderless connector at the Ballast resistor. I fixed it, but the symptoms remained. The plug into the black ECM seemed wonky, so I put another ECM in. The terminals on the black one were a little bent, which probably made the plug fit wierd. I went over all the connections again, looking for any potential problem areas, but everything else looked great. I got in and it fired up easily! After a warm up, I went out on the road. I laid into it after a mile or so and the throttle stuck! I smashed it a couple times and it popped it loose. I put 10 miles on it without being able to floor it, but I did lay into in about half throttle. It sounds great, idles great and feels strong. At home I played with the throttle cable and bracket and the "sticky" is gone. Rain started to fall so I had to call it a day. I cant be driving this car sideways in traffic during rainstorms. Thats what my $1500 67 Dart is for! Thanks for the help guys... I'm sure the suggestions sunk in to the point where they seemed like my own ideas.....
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