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Re: Shock Tech
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#932068
02/26/11 10:10 AM
02/26/11 10:10 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 43
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EricatAFCO
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Quote:
i am sure i can, will have to try it when i get it out, i do see what you and everyone here is saying. actually to much bit for the setup. if you tighten the extension on the shock would that help, or make unmanagable?
You normally tighten it on a good track and soften
it for a bad track so in your case maybe that would
help but I cant see it doing much down track so I
will let someone else like Eric make comment on that
In my experience, as you move down the track, shocks have less effect on the chassis. Certainly by the 330, the shocks are just enjoying the ride. Mr P, I agree with your tuning tips above. Excessive bite can distort the tire on the leave and will stay that way until torque falls off just enough to allow the tire to begin to get "round" again.
Remember, what we see at the sidewall is very similar to what is happening at the contact patch. Wrinkles are occuring. We could be talking about the tires loosing enough contact patch from hitting them too hard that they rotate some...
If I remember the conversation correctly (in this case), lowering the upper bar one hole, (which should have created more hit or bite) did not fix the problem. >>>>Did it make it worse??????
A bar change will be a larger change than a shock adjustement so if the bar angle change didn't make the problem worse, the problem probably isn't related to bite.
I have seen converters that are broken causing issues with traction. If you have a back up converter or can borrow one that is similar, you may R & D converters to eliminate that component, then move on if you don't see results...
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Re: Shock Tech
#932069
02/26/11 10:19 AM
02/26/11 10:19 AM
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EricatAFCO
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Quote:
Did you guys over there at AFCO ever get those reducer bushings for your front double adjustable shocks. The lower bolt holes are too large for stock front ends on these mopars.You needed to get reducers to put in the lower hole to make the stock bolt work with your shocks.
I'm in the market for another set of double adjustables
Keith,
We have it covered. A step bushing is the simple fix. If your car leaves wheels up and lands with a bounce, bounce, we may consider the bounce control valving (BNC). That valving option is available in any shock. The catalog and site shows some applications for the BNC valving but remember that any valving option can be added to a shock.
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Re: Shock Tech
[Re: Irun5snd8th]
#932070
02/26/11 10:48 AM
02/26/11 10:48 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
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EricatAFCO
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Quote:
Eric, in my conversations with you; you have given me alot of scenarios where cars were not working and what you guys did to fix them. Perhaps, you can share some of that information? I know a couple of those helped me.
Eric,
One thing that has repeatedly helped that bears mentioning is measuring shock travel. The chassis needs a specific amount of shock travel to work. The key is to find out how much.
To begin, we have to be able to measure movement in both directions. The extension is more difficult to capture. Check out the pic below. The rings install between the spring and coil over hardware. The rod is fixed on one end and slides thru the ring on the other end. Rubber grommets are fixed on both sides of the tab on the slide ring. As the rod goes thru, the rubber grommet gets pushed (in either direction) so we can measure distance.
Start with logging shock travel. Make several passes to build your baseline. Through this process, you will begin to determine which passes were better. Begin to begin a relationship between a good pass and shock travel. As data builds, you should be able to hone in.
So, if you make a pass that is less than stellar, (be it at the home track or if you unload at another track), look both at the 60' time and your shock travel. If the 60' was slow, and you think it spun, chances are that shock travel will be reduced from your target distance. You now have better info to work with.
Remembering that we have good shocks that make a difference when we click them, we can soften the extension/rebound to allow for more hit in the rear..Also, consider the front end is there too...(Monte) You can soften up extension on the front and/or give the front end more travel to promote more pitch rotation. Make your adjustment and evaluate the results.
Various professional teams with high end data gathering equipment on board use shock travel info to evaluate tuning possibilities. As sportsman racers, we have similar tools to put in play for us.
Here is a link to a high res imageof the travel indicator;
www.afabcorp.com/AFCO/Shock%20Accessories/pages/20116_500.html
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Re: Shock Tech
[Re: formula S]
#932072
03/01/11 02:49 AM
03/01/11 02:49 AM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,360
Mobile Alabama
SB412DUSTER
top fuel
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top fuel
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Mobile Alabama
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Quote:
Got some 10" springs with .437 wire dia, what is my spring rate?
He will probally need to know the number of active coils to tell you the rate
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Re: Shock Tech
[Re: SB412DUSTER]
#932073
03/02/11 05:28 PM
03/02/11 05:28 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,813
MI, usa
dvw
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master
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MI, usa
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Front shock question. With a double adjustable,under what conditions would a softer compression setting be required? I've been led to believe with my type of car it would be tough to have the compression to stiff. The car is still in the build stage. 64 Belvedere,aprox 3350 w/driver,36" ladder bar,10.5Wx31,4.10,Koni dbl adj rear w/130lb spring,113" wheel base,foot brake, 572" (850-900 H.P.?) 727 auto, 2.45 1st gear. Based on my old car I would say Frt weight 52%. With my nose weight would a single with stiff compression valving work? Or should I sell them and step up to doubles in the front. This will be a index car (9.25 or 9.50) so consistancy is important.
Thanks Doug
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Re: Shock Tech
[Re: EricatAFCO]
#932074
03/03/11 12:59 AM
03/03/11 12:59 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 151
ohio
Rich970
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ohio
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hi Eric i have a 2800 # 4 speed , ladder bar car . single adj rear shocks ride height set at 13 1/4 " 95# 12" springs and set soft 3 clicks lh and 4 r.h. shock are 11 5/8" comp and 17" extended. it rolls to the right pretty good could it be the l.h. shock could extend enough to unload the l.h. slick ? it was worn to the cords at the end of season r.h. had 3/32 left.
Last edited by Rich970; 03/03/11 01:02 AM.
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Re: Shock Tech
[Re: Rich970]
#932075
03/04/11 12:14 AM
03/04/11 12:14 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 240
Pottstown, Pa.
sg1093
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enthusiast
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Pottstown, Pa.
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I have a question for Eric. I have been racing a 69 AMX in Super Stock. I have modified the upper and lower control arms and strut rods. I have modified a set of Koni Spa 1 69 Camaro front shocks to fit but I am out of extension. I would like to modify the lower mount to fit a Afco adjustable front shock for a A Body Mopar. Has anyone else tried this? The stock AMX shock has studs like the upper mount of a A Body shock at the top and bottom. Thank you, Pat
Last edited by sg1093; 03/04/11 12:23 AM.
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Re: Shock Tech
[Re: SB412DUSTER]
#932076
03/04/11 08:07 PM
03/04/11 08:07 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 43
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EricatAFCO
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Quote:
Quote:
Got some 10" springs with .437 wire dia, what is my spring rate?
He will probally need to know the number of active coils to tell you the rate
We need to know a few things...... We need the number of active coils (total of coils less 2 for the end coils), also, we need to know the material used to make the coils. Different materials have different tensil strength etc. If we can get that info, we could plug that info in and see what we get. Although, the only truth is a good spring checker. Springs can degrade. The formula method estimates the springs at 100%
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Re: Shock Tech
[Re: dvw]
#932077
03/04/11 08:19 PM
03/04/11 08:19 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
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EricatAFCO
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Quote:
Front shock question. With a double adjustable,under what conditions would a softer compression setting be required? I've been led to believe with my type of car it would be tough to have the compression to stiff. The car is still in the build stage. 64 Belvedere,aprox 3350 w/driver,36" ladder bar,10.5Wx31,4.10,Koni dbl adj rear w/130lb spring,113" wheel base,foot brake, 572" (850-900 H.P.?) 727 auto, 2.45 1st gear. Based on my old car I would say Frt weight 52%. With my nose weight would a single with stiff compression valving work? Or should I sell them and step up to doubles in the front. This will be a index car (9.25 or 9.50) so consistancy is important.
Thanks Doug
Some cars can use single adjustable shocks on the front and be fine. The size of the wheelie and the weight are probably the main factors. The double adjustable shock offers the most tuning options. We have had success using either shock on the appropriate application. How high does your car pick them up and carry them out?
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Re: Shock Tech
[Re: EricatAFCO]
#932078
03/04/11 09:34 PM
03/04/11 09:34 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,131
Thigh-Gap Junction
@#$%&*!
New user name, Same old jerk!
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New user name, Same old jerk!
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,131
Thigh-Gap Junction
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Quote:
Quote:
Got some 10" springs with .437 wire dia, what is my spring rate?
We need to know a few things...... We need the number of active coils (total of coils less 2 for the end coils), also, we need to know the material used to make the coils. Different materials have different tensil strength etc. If we can get that info, we could plug that info in and see what we get. Although, the only truth is a good spring checker. Springs can degrade. The formula method estimates the springs at 100%
Actually, material strength doesn't enter into it at all. The web is loaded with plenty of coil spring rate calculators but the one at Wallaceracing.com will do: http://www.pontiacracing.net/js_coil_spring_rate.htm
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Re: Shock Tech
[Re: EricatAFCO]
#932079
03/05/11 12:09 AM
03/05/11 12:09 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,813
MI, usa
dvw
master
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master
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Posts: 9,813
MI, usa
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Quote:
Quote:
Front shock question. With a double adjustable,under what conditions would a softer compression setting be required? I've been led to believe with my type of car it would be tough to have the compression to stiff. The car is still in the build stage. 64 Belvedere,aprox 3350 w/driver,36" ladder bar,10.5Wx31,4.10,Koni dbl adj rear w/130lb spring,113" wheel base,foot brake, 572" (850-900 H.P.?) 727 auto, 2.45 1st gear. Based on my old car I would say Frt weight 52%. With my nose weight would a single with stiff compression valving work? Or should I sell them and step up to doubles in the front. This will be a index car (9.25 or 9.50) so consistancy is important.
Thanks Doug
Some cars can use single adjustable shocks on the front and be fine. The size of the wheelie and the weight are probably the main factors. The double adjustable shock offers the most tuning options. We have had success using either shock on the appropriate application. How high does your car pick them up and carry them out?
Not sure as the car is being completed as we speak. What would be the indications/results of the front shock compression setting being to stiff?
Doug
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Re: Shock Tech
[Re: dvw]
#932080
03/09/11 11:05 AM
03/09/11 11:05 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,864
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Irun5snd8th
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Being too stiff up there at minimum I would expect the front tires to take more of a blow which would distort them and hurt performance. Even if ever so slightly. I would expect the car to be more prone to bounce as well from the front tires, kind of like airing up a basketball too much. Thats an exagerration but illustrates the point. I have never tried running the compression really stiff on the front so I can speak to this only in theory.
AFCO, Rons Fuel Injection sponsored Dodge Challenger
Mention Street Lethal Motorsports
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