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Automatic to manual conversion. Got questions. #931246
02/17/11 06:22 PM
02/17/11 06:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,188
Twin Cities, MN
MN-ScatPack Offline OP
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Twin Cities, MN
Well I am hoping to get started on my auto to manual conversion next week on my 71 challenger. This is all new to me and I was wondering if anyone has a checklist of sorts that describes or lists what is going to be needed for this conversion.
I'm really looking for the stuff that needs to go on the car itself (i.e. pedals, tunnel, z-bar, etc..). What stuff needs to be welded and what will bolt right in?
I'm trying to gather up all the stuff that is going to be needed so I can get all the welding done at once since I'm going to have someone come and do that.

Thanks for any input you guys have.

Re: Automatic to manual conversion. Got questions. [Re: MN-ScatPack] #931247
02/17/11 06:52 PM
02/17/11 06:52 PM
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Posts: 4,285
Ohio
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64dodge572 Offline
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Frame bracket-floor tunnel are the only pieces that have to be welded. Original stick cars have a 2 stud brkt spot welded to the cowl for ease of assy when installing the clutch/brake assy. Doesn't have to be welded though. Most 71 and newer B/E cars also have a punched hole in the top of the frame rail that locates the frame brkt. If you want to shoot me an email I can send you a quote that you can use for your check list.
Dan


Brewers Performance Inc.
4-speed transmission and parts specialists
PH 937-947-4416 or 937-698-4259
FAX 937-947-4419
www.brewersperformance.com
Re: Automatic to manual conversion. Got questions. [Re: MN-ScatPack] #931248
02/17/11 08:28 PM
02/17/11 08:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,618
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
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Another guy's experience:

http://www.darklair.com/727-to-833.html

Not the same year/body but a general overview.


The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
Re: Automatic to manual conversion. Got questions. [Re: MN-ScatPack] #931249
02/18/11 07:06 AM
02/18/11 07:06 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 357
Lake Elmo, MN
Evil Monkey Offline
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I changed my Cuda from an auto to a manual back in about 1996 (I also did an Aspen in about the same time frame). Unfortunately, that was a long time ago and I don't remember all the little details. The first one I did was the Cuda, and I basically cobbled together a bunch of pieces that were supposed to be from a Cuda. It worked, but not very well. Then I found a 4 speed Aspen in the junk yard, and grabbed all the parts from it, and converted the Aspen. There was a night-and-day difference between the ease of the conversion, the way it worked mechanically, and the finished product - the Aspens clutch was much smoother, everything fit correctly, and it looked like it belonged. Fortunately, I found a 4 speed Cuda that was being parted out shortly after that, and grabbed all the correct parts and re-did the Cuda right.

If you can, try to get the bellhousing, Z bar, petals, clutch rod and clutch fork all from the same car - that way you know they were all matched up at one time and will work together. These were the parts that I had tried to cobble together from different sources on my Cuda, and they just didn't want to play nice with each other (I probably had a mixture of big block, small block, and non-Cuda parts). Or at least be very careful to get the correct parts if you have to get them from different sources - I didn't have any idea what part numbers I was looking for, so getting a list of correct part numbers would be very beneficial.

I don't know where you're located in the Twin Cities, but I'm about 5 miles East of the big 3M complex off of I-94, in Lake Elmo. If you need a hand or have any questions while doing the conversion, let me know - I'd be glad to help out.


1974 'Cuda 360/TKO 1990 Ram Van 1998 Neon
Re: Automatic to manual conversion. Got questions. [Re: Evil Monkey] #931250
02/18/11 11:53 AM
02/18/11 11:53 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,188
Twin Cities, MN
MN-ScatPack Offline OP
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Twin Cities, MN
Quote:

I changed my Cuda from an auto to a manual back in about 1996 (I also did an Aspen in about the same time frame). Unfortunately, that was a long time ago and I don't remember all the little details. The first one I did was the Cuda, and I basically cobbled together a bunch of pieces that were supposed to be from a Cuda. It worked, but not very well. Then I found a 4 speed Aspen in the junk yard, and grabbed all the parts from it, and converted the Aspen. There was a night-and-day difference between the ease of the conversion, the way it worked mechanically, and the finished product - the Aspens clutch was much smoother, everything fit correctly, and it looked like it belonged. Fortunately, I found a 4 speed Cuda that was being parted out shortly after that, and grabbed all the correct parts and re-did the Cuda right.

If you can, try to get the bellhousing, Z bar, petals, clutch rod and clutch fork all from the same car - that way you know they were all matched up at one time and will work together. These were the parts that I had tried to cobble together from different sources on my Cuda, and they just didn't want to play nice with each other (I probably had a mixture of big block, small block, and non-Cuda parts). Or at least be very careful to get the correct parts if you have to get them from different sources - I didn't have any idea what part numbers I was looking for, so getting a list of correct part numbers would be very beneficial.

I don't know where you're located in the Twin Cities, but I'm about 5 miles East of the big 3M complex off of I-94, in Lake Elmo. If you need a hand or have any questions while doing the conversion, let me know - I'd be glad to help out.




Thanks Tom, I am located just north of the twin cities about 20 minutes off of Hwy 10.
As for the challenger, I am still debating if I should by one of the kits out there that has everything included or if I should piece it part by part. I also am looking for some info or even pics of where some of the small stuff goes, like the z-bar and I believe there is a pivot point involved somewhere. Its the stuff that attaches to the body I'm unsure about.
I know about the trans tunnel, pedals, but will I need a different transmission crossmember? Anything I'm not mentioning?

Re: Automatic to manual conversion. Got questions. [Re: MN-ScatPack] #931251
02/19/11 06:54 AM
02/19/11 06:54 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 357
Lake Elmo, MN
Evil Monkey Offline
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Evil Monkey  Offline
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Lake Elmo, MN
Quote:

Thanks Tom, I am located just north of the twin cities about 20 minutes off of Hwy 10.
As for the challenger, I am still debating if I should by one of the kits out there that has everything included or if I should piece it part by part. I also am looking for some info or even pics of where some of the small stuff goes, like the z-bar and I believe there is a pivot point involved somewhere. Its the stuff that attaches to the body I'm unsure about.
I know about the trans tunnel, pedals, but will I need a different transmission crossmember? Anything I'm not mentioning?




You don't need a different transmission crossmember, there's no difference between an automatic and manual crossmember. I believe there's a notch or a mark in the frame where the Z-bar pivot gets welded on. That's one of the things that was cobbled together on mine - I made my own bracket for the frame Z-bar pivot, and it's in the right spot, so I never needed to correct it when I got the 'correct' parts. But yes, there are a lot of little things - a few more off the top of my head: Your crankshaft may not be drilled properly for a pilot bushing - they are sometimes drilled, but not to the finished size (I crushed the first bushing I tried to install due to this). Although the bushing can be filed down to fit into the crankshaft, the best thing to do there is to use a roller bearing instead of the bushing, I think they were used in '90's Dakotas, and they press into the torque converter register instead of the pilot bushing hole. Another thing that can be easily forgotten: You need a return spring on the clutch lever. It's a fairly lightweight spring that is not designed to return the clutch, but it's designed to pull the clutch lever fully back so that when your clutch is released, the throwout bearing doesn't ride on the clutch levers, which would cause your throwout bearing to wear out quickly. There's also some strange little clips and hardware used to hold everything together. I did a lot of rummaging around the old Anoka Auto Wrecking yard off of Bunker Lake Blvd back when I was converting mine, trying to figure out how all the 4 speed stuff went together. They didn't have any E bodies there, but plenty of A, B and F bodies that I was able to dissect. I really miss that place...

I've got a lot of friends in the Mounds View/Blaine/Ham Lake area, so I get up that way a lot. I'm guessing that 20 minutes North of the Cities would put you in the Anoka/Ramsey area, so your in the same general area. If you decide to piece it together part by part, I've still got a lot of leftover stuff - Z-bars, clutch forks, shifters, etc that you could use. The problem is I don't know if they're E body parts of if they go to something else, so getting a list of part numbers would help. I'll dig around over the next few days and see exactly what I've got.


1974 'Cuda 360/TKO 1990 Ram Van 1998 Neon
Re: Automatic to manual conversion. Got questions. [Re: Evil Monkey] #931252
02/19/11 07:15 AM
02/19/11 07:15 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,153
Mass
DAYCLONA Offline
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Mass
Yes your better off with the roller bearing, I've used both, but prefer the roller

Re: Automatic to manual conversion. Got questions. [Re: DAYCLONA] #931253
02/19/11 12:15 PM
02/19/11 12:15 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,188
Twin Cities, MN
MN-ScatPack Offline OP
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MN-ScatPack  Offline OP
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Twin Cities, MN
Thanks guys. I got a parts list from Dan @ Brewers. Tom, let me know what you have and maybe I'll buy some of it from you. I am located in that area, Andover to be exact and I grew up right behind the old Anoka Auto (back in my Nova days), so I also spent alot of time there.

-Scott

Re: Automatic to manual conversion. Got questions. [Re: DAYCLONA] #931254
02/19/11 12:23 PM
02/19/11 12:23 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 739
Anderson, IN
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1969RR Offline
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Give Dan or one of the guy's at Brewer's a call. They will have everything you will need! I've bought a lot from them, very nice and helpful! Their complete kit is great. I used one when I changed my Road Runner. You wont be sorry working with them! Jeff

Re: Automatic to manual conversion. Got questions. [Re: 1969RR] #931255
02/19/11 12:53 PM
02/19/11 12:53 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,188
Twin Cities, MN
MN-ScatPack Offline OP
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Twin Cities, MN
Quote:

Give Dan or one of the guy's at Brewer's a call. They will have everything you will need! I've bought a lot from them, very nice and helpful! Their complete kit is great. I used one when I changed my Road Runner. You wont be sorry working with them! Jeff




I'm debating this as Dan did give me a quote on the whole thing also. I just might have to buy a little at a time due to lack of funds.

Re: Automatic to manual conversion. Got questions. [Re: MN-ScatPack] #931256
02/19/11 01:20 PM
02/19/11 01:20 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,873
Chicken coop
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Our Dart's conversion cost us around $1,500. The most expensive part was the heavy duty clutch and pressure plate. We got lucky and got an A833 trans, bellhousing, shifter, and forks for $100 at a Chevy swap meet. The nickle and dime stuff adds up quick. Z-bar, then a rebuild kit for the Z-bar, a dust shield for the trans, a missing reverse rod, etc. And it took us more than a year to come up with all the parts.

Plan for it to cost more than you think it will.

It was well worth it though.

Oh, and Brewers and Passon Performance are both great companies to deal with.

Re: Automatic to manual conversion. Got questions. [Re: MN-ScatPack] #931257
02/19/11 01:53 PM
02/19/11 01:53 PM
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Posts: 299
East Brunswick, NJ
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finadk Offline
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East Brunswick, NJ
When I spec'd out my T56 6 speed conversion I found that I can buy the entire kit for slightly less than I could have cobbled together all of the new parts myself. Remember to consider shipping costs if you are going the Johnny Cash One piece at a time route. You can $5 - $10 yourself into the cost of a entire setup, guaranteed to fit, shipped to you in a single box.
Just something to think about.
Scott


Scott 1956 Dodge Custom Royal Lancer (408 Stroker, 4 Wheel Disc Brakes, Rack & Pinion, 6 speed) 2002 Dodge Ram 1500 Quad Cab 1976 Corvette
Re: Automatic to manual conversion. Got questions. [Re: MN-ScatPack] #931258
02/21/11 05:08 PM
02/21/11 05:08 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 357
Lake Elmo, MN
Evil Monkey Offline
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Hey Scott - I have the next two days off. I've got to dig a path back to my shed tomorrow, but then I should be able to get you a list of the parts that I've got. I just dug my shed out last week, but didn't find what I was looking for (I didn't look very hard), and now the shed has a few feet of snow in front of the door again. Oh well... Hopefully I'll find what I'm looking for, and we also get a few matches with your parts list. At least I know where all the 4 speed stuff is out there, don't need to search for that, just pull it out and see what I've got.

Tom


1974 'Cuda 360/TKO 1990 Ram Van 1998 Neon
Re: Automatic to manual conversion. Got questions. [Re: MN-ScatPack] #931259
02/24/11 04:58 AM
02/24/11 04:58 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 357
Lake Elmo, MN
Evil Monkey Offline
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Scott - I pulled most of the stuff out of my shed and sorted through it. As I said earlier, it's a mixture of A, B, E and F body stuff. I should be able to identify most of it either through part numbers, or matching it with the parts on my Cuda, or looking at the pictures and descriptions on some of the suppliers websites (like the Brewers website). But, here's what I've got:

Shifters
Shift rods
Transmission levers
Shifter attachment plates
Clutch forks
Z bars
Z bar pivots
Bellhousing cover plates (the plates that go between the flywheel and engine, not the bottom of the bellhousing).

I've got multiples of all the above items, and most of them are from different applications, so hopefully some of them are for E bodies. There may be more in the shed also - I only looked in the spot where I knew I had a bunch of 4 speed parts. There may be more mixed in with other stuff.

Give me a call on my cell, 651-341-5059, and I'll throw the parts in my trunk and let you take a look at them next time I'm up your way. No need to buy anything right away - I know you're still in the planning stages and may go with a kit, but at least you can see what I've got and I can put anything you might want aside until you make up your mind.

Tom


1974 'Cuda 360/TKO 1990 Ram Van 1998 Neon
Re: Automatic to manual conversion. Got questions. [Re: Evil Monkey] #931260
02/24/11 07:42 AM
02/24/11 07:42 AM
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the frozen wastes...
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Its too bad you are so far away. I'm selling a complete E/late B-body 4speed set-up for big block with everything you need. To convert to an auto you'd only need a 4speed hump, bracket and pedals. Nice to get it all in one spot if you can.

Re: Automatic to manual conversion. Got questions. [Re: Pale_Roader] #931261
03/22/11 11:55 AM
03/22/11 11:55 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,188
Twin Cities, MN
MN-ScatPack Offline OP
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Quote:


Its too bad you are so far away. I'm selling a complete E/late B-body 4speed set-up for big block with everything you need. To convert to an auto you'd only need a 4speed hump, bracket and pedals. Nice to get it all in one spot if you can.




How far is so far?







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