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518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue
#929638
02/15/11 05:05 PM
02/15/11 05:05 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,305
Lakewood, Colorado
herkamer
OP
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OP
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,305
Lakewood, Colorado
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Still chasing this problem. I'm at a loss here...
Fresh 518 rebuild with maybe 300 miles on it now. 1-2 shift is fine. 2-3 takes much longer. Actual shift is ok, just delayed. Transgo shift kit installed to RV/Truck spec, 3.8 KD lever. Even with the KD linkage off it's delayed, usually around 25-30 or sometimes even 35 mph at light throttle. When I assembled the trans everything was air tested and it sounded like the pistons were engaging correctly. All seals and rings were replaced.
What else could be causing this? Incorrect front band adjustment? Could the seals not be installed correctly? OD/LU solenoids leaking? Sticky valve in the VB?
I'd really prefer not to remove the entire unit to repair, but it gets annoying when it won't shift.
Makes it even harder to tune the fuel injection when it holds 2nd gear. Any diagnosis tips would be very helpful.
Matt
69 Dart Swinger 340
83 W350, Megasquirted with 46RH
Old news: 72 Demon street/race mobile
Latest: 70 Duster backhalf car
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Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue
[Re: herkamer]
#929639
02/15/11 05:40 PM
02/15/11 05:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,726
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Rio Linda, CA
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Does throttling back make it shift?
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#929640
02/15/11 05:50 PM
02/15/11 05:50 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,305
Lakewood, Colorado
herkamer
OP
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OP
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No. You can run it up to where it should shift, let off and it will still hang in 2nd. It takes going up to a higher speed to shift. Looks like about 2000 or so rpm from my EFI datalogs.
Matt
69 Dart Swinger 340
83 W350, Megasquirted with 46RH
Old news: 72 Demon street/race mobile
Latest: 70 Duster backhalf car
and even more
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Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue
[Re: herkamer]
#929641
02/15/11 05:58 PM
02/15/11 05:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,726
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
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Rio Linda, CA
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Were the governor pressure solenoid and sensor replaced at overhaul?
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Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#929642
02/15/11 05:59 PM
02/15/11 05:59 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,305
Lakewood, Colorado
herkamer
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OP
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Hydraulic version. Only solenoids are OD and LU
Matt
69 Dart Swinger 340
83 W350, Megasquirted with 46RH
Old news: 72 Demon street/race mobile
Latest: 70 Duster backhalf car
and even more
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Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue
[Re: herkamer]
#929643
02/15/11 10:52 PM
02/15/11 10:52 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 276
Temecula, Ca.
zzyzxpat
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 276
Temecula, Ca.
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Your problem is the Transgo Kit. Very common. Did you install the spring and trim the throttle valve? Transgo builds alot of good stuff, but there are alot of concerns with the shift timing when the Torqueflite stuff is used.
Pat
" The last official act of any goverment, is to loot the treasury" George Washington
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Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue
[Re: zzyzxpat]
#929644
02/15/11 11:07 PM
02/15/11 11:07 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,305
Lakewood, Colorado
herkamer
OP
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OP
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Followed the kit directions to the letter for a mild truck/RV type build. No 1-2 governor valve, nor did I install the green TV spring. I didn't grind anything except the 4 land switch valve, and filed the VB where the manual valve goes in.
Matt
69 Dart Swinger 340
83 W350, Megasquirted with 46RH
Old news: 72 Demon street/race mobile
Latest: 70 Duster backhalf car
and even more
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Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue
[Re: 383man]
#929647
02/16/11 06:54 PM
02/16/11 06:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
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U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Seen alot of trouble with the front clutch drum causing the delayed 2-3 shift also at the dealer. We would replace the drum and piston and that would fix it. Ron
Was that because the drum has the inner seal groove cut too deep? there is a replacement seal to make up for this .
Op , do you notice a delayed reverse engagement ?
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Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue
[Re: 383man]
#929648
02/16/11 08:38 PM
02/16/11 08:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,726
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
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Rio Linda, CA
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The faulty clutch drums will usually shift if the throttle is lifted.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#929650
02/16/11 11:17 PM
02/16/11 11:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
383man
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Balt. Md
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Quote:
The faulty clutch drums will usually shift if the throttle is lifted.
Evently they will shift but some took longer then the feeling of just to much throttle pressure. Mopar had us put the updated drum and piston in them. Ron
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Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue
[Re: 383man]
#929651
02/18/11 02:03 AM
02/18/11 02:03 AM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,305
Lakewood, Colorado
herkamer
OP
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OP
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@ Kunkel- Have checked governor pressure for Transgo tech support guys. It is approx 1 psi per MPH, rises and falls smoothly according to speed. From everything I've read this is normal.
@ JohnRR - No delayed reverse engagement. The trans works great aside from 2-3 shift.
@ bronzebee - no idea how many miles were on the trans. It was a builder with the OD fried that I bought and rebuilt, so any VB wear is unknown and completely possible.
@383man - Broke the original front drum while pressing new bushing in (d'oh!), replaced with a good used unit. Not sure this matters but may be pertinent to know
Matt
69 Dart Swinger 340
83 W350, Megasquirted with 46RH
Old news: 72 Demon street/race mobile
Latest: 70 Duster backhalf car
and even more
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Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue
[Re: JohnRR]
#929653
02/19/11 03:53 PM
02/19/11 03:53 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,062
Amherst,NY
challengermike
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,062
Amherst,NY
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Quote:
Quote:
Seen alot of trouble with the front clutch drum causing the delayed 2-3 shift also at the dealer. We would replace the drum and piston and that would fix it. Ron
Was that because the drum has the inner seal groove cut too deep? there is a replacement seal to make up for this .
Op , do you notice a delayed reverse engagement ?
I guess you would have to know what seal was installed,they still give you both seals in the rebuild kit.You just have to know to install the deeper one.But usually after the trans warms up it will start to shift on time after the seal expands.
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Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue
[Re: challengermike]
#929654
02/19/11 04:21 PM
02/19/11 04:21 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,305
Lakewood, Colorado
herkamer
OP
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OP
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I'm not sure, didn't know there was 2 different seals. Don't believe I had any leftover seals..I will look in a bit. Shift timing never improves cold or hot.
Matt
69 Dart Swinger 340
83 W350, Megasquirted with 46RH
Old news: 72 Demon street/race mobile
Latest: 70 Duster backhalf car
and even more
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Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue
[Re: herkamer]
#929655
02/19/11 04:40 PM
02/19/11 04:40 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
master
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master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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Is the shift delayed in auto/drive mode, manual shift mode or both?
How many front clutch springs are you using, and did you install the restrictor from the shift kit into the trans case?
What type of front band material, and is it adjusted correctly?
I would try loosening the front band adjustment about 1/4 turn first, because that would be the easiest thing to check/adjust.
You may have alot of seal leakage in the front clutch circuit, could be the pump to drum rings, or even the front servo leakage (you did put the seal ring in the servo cover?)
If the shift is slow even in manual mode, then if the restrictor was used in the case, I would remove it, and the front clutchs should apply quicker.
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Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue
[Re: 451Mopar]
#929656
02/19/11 04:48 PM
02/19/11 04:48 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,305
Lakewood, Colorado
herkamer
OP
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OP
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Quote:
Is the shift delayed in auto/drive mode, manual shift mode or both?
Both
How many front clutch springs are you using, and did you install the restrictor from the shift kit into the trans case?
However many were in the stock drum, memory seems to want to say 12. Yes, restrictor is installed
What type of front band material, and is it adjusted correctly?
Stock type front band. Not sure on the adjustment, it is set to what Transgo calls for in the shift kit manual.
you did put the seal ring in the servo cover?
Yes, all seals/rings were replaced.
Matt
69 Dart Swinger 340
83 W350, Megasquirted with 46RH
Old news: 72 Demon street/race mobile
Latest: 70 Duster backhalf car
and even more
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Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue
[Re: 451Mopar]
#929658
02/19/11 08:04 PM
02/19/11 08:04 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,305
Lakewood, Colorado
herkamer
OP
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OP
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Tried backing the band off 1/4 turn. No difference at all. When building it, I did air test everything and it sounded solid. Obviously there is something causing issues.
I guess it's time to go back inside of this thing. I do have a stock valve body I could try, but was hoping not to have to be in and out of the unit several times.
Matt
69 Dart Swinger 340
83 W350, Megasquirted with 46RH
Old news: 72 Demon street/race mobile
Latest: 70 Duster backhalf car
and even more
|
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Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue
[Re: herkamer]
#929659
02/20/11 07:21 AM
02/20/11 07:21 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,726
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Rio Linda, CA
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When you remove the VB take the end plate off and check the 2-3 shift valve and plug for freedom of movement.
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Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue
[Re: BigBlockMopar]
#929661
04/25/14 11:00 AM
04/25/14 11:00 AM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,305
Lakewood, Colorado
herkamer
OP
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Suppose I should have updated this; Mine is resolved, problem was the KD linkage was not completely forward with no throttle. It was only pushed back slightly and that was enough to cause an issue. I had to pull the pan to see this.
Matt
69 Dart Swinger 340
83 W350, Megasquirted with 46RH
Old news: 72 Demon street/race mobile
Latest: 70 Duster backhalf car
and even more
|
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Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue
[Re: BigBlockMopar]
#929663
04/25/14 10:39 PM
04/25/14 10:39 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,813
MI, usa
dvw
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master
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MI, usa
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Quote:
Thanks for your update.
I wonder if that could be the case with my tranny aswell, as I have preloaded the KD-linkage slightly to make 1-2 shifts occur at a better time (around 10mph instead of 5mph).
If been wondering if the KD-lever on the tranny has the correct length for the throttle linkage on the carb ('73 318 2-bbl).
Not sure which would be the correct lever since the combo isn't stock. I would bet if the KD linkage is O.E. it should have the O.E. 318 lever. There are at least 2 different length levers availible during that vintage that will change the geometry. Also important to have the light spring pulling the linkage up snug to the carb stud.
Doug
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Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue
[Re: BigBlockMopar]
#929666
08/03/14 06:45 PM
08/03/14 06:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,575
The Netherlands
BigBlockMopar
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master
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I'm updating this topic as today I've managed to alter the KD(TP) lever on the transmission to a slightly longer one. Reason for this mod was that the 1-2 shift at WOT were also a bit late. Now with the longer lever this seems to have improved. But, (on the contrary to what I mentioned in my post above) throttle-position does NOT alter the 2-3 shift. Nor hot or cold. The trans still does the 2-3-shifts around 30mph. (There's a 3.91 gearratio in the rearaxle) Some more info; - With light throttle, the 2-3 upshifts are very late. - With moderate/firm throttle, 2-3 upshift timing feels correct, right on time. - Shifts themselves are nice and crisp. - 3-2 Kickdown always seems to work good and as expected. - Reverse gear engagement always is very soft. My gut feeling says there's leakage somewhere in the transmission and internal oilpressure needs to come up to a certain pressure or flow before the 2-3 shift is initiated. I don't mind getting into the transmission or valvebody to fix this issue, but I do like to know what to fix so the problem is actually cured after that. I hate just throwing new parts at some issue, but I'm thinking of getting either or both these items (unless someone here can pinpoint the issue to one part); - #518RED16. Sonnax, Dodge 16% Oversize Intermediate Super Servo. - http://atransmission.info/518-throttle-valve-kit.htmlAny help would be appreciated.
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Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue
[Re: BigBlockMopar]
#929667
08/03/14 08:55 PM
08/03/14 08:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,994
Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
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Benton, IL.
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One more thing you may try before opening it up; Try putting a spring on the KD lever on the tranny so that it will be pulled all the way off. I have fought this issue myself when the return spring on the KD lever at the carb had broken and I didn't know it. When the KD linkage wasn't being pulled all the way closed, my tranny did some really weird late upshift stuff. Some of it in 1-2 but most of it was in the 2-3. 
Master, again and still
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Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue
[Re: BigBlockMopar]
#929669
08/04/14 11:54 AM
08/04/14 11:54 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
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Lincoln Nebraska
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Just WAG ing here but would a softer spring in front of the 2-3 shift valve let it shift earlier? It'd sure be easier to go into the VB (if that sounds like a good possibility) than to pull the trans
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue
[Re: BigBlockMopar]
#929671
08/04/14 12:39 PM
08/04/14 12:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,994
Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
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Benton, IL.
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Any chance you have a stock VB just to try? That would narrow down the choices.
Master, again and still
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Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue
[Re: BigBlockMopar]
#929673
11/17/14 09:51 AM
11/17/14 09:51 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,575
The Netherlands
BigBlockMopar
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master
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Topic update; For anyone out there is still in deep worries and having sleepness nights about this issue  it turned out to be a linkage issue afterall as well in my case. The horizontal rod on the transmission going from the KD-lever to the bellcrank was too long. This caused the rod to contact the bellcrank shaft at full forward/relaxed position, and prevent the KD-valve in the transmission from totally releasing. I put an extra bend in the rod to shorten it which freed up the linkage quite a bit already. It still needs to be slightly shorter as the bellcrank's upper leg is almost in it's upright position, almost causing to overcenter the vertical rod going up to the engine bellcrank.
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for any help with this
