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518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue #929638
02/15/11 05:05 PM
02/15/11 05:05 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,305
Lakewood, Colorado
herkamer Offline OP
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herkamer  Offline OP
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Still chasing this problem. I'm at a loss here...

Fresh 518 rebuild with maybe 300 miles on it now. 1-2 shift is fine. 2-3 takes much longer. Actual shift is ok, just delayed. Transgo shift kit installed to RV/Truck spec, 3.8 KD lever. Even with the KD linkage off it's delayed, usually around 25-30 or sometimes even 35 mph at light throttle. When I assembled the trans everything was air tested and it sounded like the pistons were engaging correctly. All seals and rings were replaced.

What else could be causing this? Incorrect front band adjustment? Could the seals not be installed correctly? OD/LU solenoids leaking? Sticky valve in the VB?

I'd really prefer not to remove the entire unit to repair, but it gets annoying when it won't shift.
Makes it even harder to tune the fuel injection when it holds 2nd gear. Any diagnosis tips would be very helpful.


Matt
69 Dart Swinger 340
83 W350, Megasquirted with 46RH
Old news: 72 Demon street/race mobile
Latest: 70 Duster backhalf car
and even more
Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue [Re: herkamer] #929639
02/15/11 05:40 PM
02/15/11 05:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,618
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
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Does throttling back make it shift?


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Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue [Re: John_Kunkel] #929640
02/15/11 05:50 PM
02/15/11 05:50 PM
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Posts: 1,305
Lakewood, Colorado
herkamer Offline OP
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herkamer  Offline OP
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No. You can run it up to where it should shift, let off and it will still hang in 2nd. It takes going up to a higher speed to shift. Looks like about 2000 or so rpm from my EFI datalogs.


Matt
69 Dart Swinger 340
83 W350, Megasquirted with 46RH
Old news: 72 Demon street/race mobile
Latest: 70 Duster backhalf car
and even more
Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue [Re: herkamer] #929641
02/15/11 05:58 PM
02/15/11 05:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,618
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
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Were the governor pressure solenoid and sensor replaced at overhaul?


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Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue [Re: John_Kunkel] #929642
02/15/11 05:59 PM
02/15/11 05:59 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,305
Lakewood, Colorado
herkamer Offline OP
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herkamer  Offline OP
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Hydraulic version. Only solenoids are OD and LU


Matt
69 Dart Swinger 340
83 W350, Megasquirted with 46RH
Old news: 72 Demon street/race mobile
Latest: 70 Duster backhalf car
and even more
Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue [Re: herkamer] #929643
02/15/11 10:52 PM
02/15/11 10:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 276
Temecula, Ca.
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zzyzxpat Offline
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Temecula, Ca.
Your problem is the Transgo Kit. Very common. Did you install the spring and trim the throttle valve? Transgo builds alot of good stuff, but there are alot of concerns with the shift timing when the Torqueflite stuff is used.
Pat


" The last official act of any goverment, is to loot the treasury" George Washington
Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue [Re: zzyzxpat] #929644
02/15/11 11:07 PM
02/15/11 11:07 PM
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Posts: 1,305
Lakewood, Colorado
herkamer Offline OP
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herkamer  Offline OP
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Followed the kit directions to the letter for a mild truck/RV type build. No 1-2 governor valve, nor did I install the green TV spring. I didn't grind anything except the 4 land switch valve, and filed the VB where the manual valve goes in.


Matt
69 Dart Swinger 340
83 W350, Megasquirted with 46RH
Old news: 72 Demon street/race mobile
Latest: 70 Duster backhalf car
and even more
Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue [Re: herkamer] #929645
02/16/11 05:36 PM
02/16/11 05:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,618
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
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Quote:

Hydraulic version. Only solenoids are OD and LU




Oops, I thought it was the '99 in your signature line.

You need to hook up a test gauge to the governor pressure test port.


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Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue [Re: John_Kunkel] #929646
02/16/11 06:43 PM
02/16/11 06:43 PM
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Balt. Md
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383man Offline
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Seen alot of trouble with the front clutch drum causing the delayed 2-3 shift also at the dealer. We would replace the drum and piston and that would fix it. Ron

Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue [Re: 383man] #929647
02/16/11 06:54 PM
02/16/11 06:54 PM
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U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
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Quote:

Seen alot of trouble with the front clutch drum causing the delayed 2-3 shift also at the dealer. We would replace the drum and piston and that would fix it. Ron




Was that because the drum has the inner seal groove cut too deep? there is a replacement seal to make up for this .

Op , do you notice a delayed reverse engagement ?

Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue [Re: 383man] #929648
02/16/11 08:38 PM
02/16/11 08:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,618
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
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The faulty clutch drums will usually shift if the throttle is lifted.


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Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue [Re: John_Kunkel] #929649
02/16/11 08:45 PM
02/16/11 08:45 PM
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MINNESOTA
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BRONZEBEE Offline
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I have seen the throttle valve bore worn out in the valvebody.How many miles on the truck,seen it happen this happen with 75,000 miles.

Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue [Re: John_Kunkel] #929650
02/16/11 11:17 PM
02/16/11 11:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
3
383man Offline
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Quote:


The faulty clutch drums will usually shift if the throttle is lifted.




Evently they will shift but some took longer then the feeling of just to much throttle pressure. Mopar had us put the updated drum and piston in them. Ron

Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue [Re: 383man] #929651
02/18/11 02:03 AM
02/18/11 02:03 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,305
Lakewood, Colorado
herkamer Offline OP
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herkamer  Offline OP
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@ Kunkel- Have checked governor pressure for Transgo tech support guys. It is approx 1 psi per MPH, rises and falls smoothly according to speed. From everything I've read this is normal.

@ JohnRR - No delayed reverse engagement. The trans works great aside from 2-3 shift.

@ bronzebee - no idea how many miles were on the trans. It was a builder with the OD fried that I bought and rebuilt, so any VB wear is unknown and completely possible.

@383man - Broke the original front drum while pressing new bushing in (d'oh!), replaced with a good used unit. Not sure this matters but may be pertinent to know


Matt
69 Dart Swinger 340
83 W350, Megasquirted with 46RH
Old news: 72 Demon street/race mobile
Latest: 70 Duster backhalf car
and even more
Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue [Re: herkamer] #929652
02/19/11 03:34 PM
02/19/11 03:34 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,305
Lakewood, Colorado
herkamer Offline OP
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herkamer  Offline OP
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for any help with this


Matt
69 Dart Swinger 340
83 W350, Megasquirted with 46RH
Old news: 72 Demon street/race mobile
Latest: 70 Duster backhalf car
and even more
Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue [Re: JohnRR] #929653
02/19/11 03:53 PM
02/19/11 03:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,062
Amherst,NY
challengermike Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Seen alot of trouble with the front clutch drum causing the delayed 2-3 shift also at the dealer. We would replace the drum and piston and that would fix it. Ron




Was that because the drum has the inner seal groove cut too deep? there is a replacement seal to make up for this .

Op , do you notice a delayed reverse engagement ?




I guess you would have to know what seal was installed,they still give you both seals in the rebuild kit.You just have to know to install the deeper one.But usually after the trans warms up it will start to shift on time after the seal expands.

Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue [Re: challengermike] #929654
02/19/11 04:21 PM
02/19/11 04:21 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,305
Lakewood, Colorado
herkamer Offline OP
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herkamer  Offline OP
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I'm not sure, didn't know there was 2 different seals. Don't believe I had any leftover seals..I will look in a bit. Shift timing never improves cold or hot.


Matt
69 Dart Swinger 340
83 W350, Megasquirted with 46RH
Old news: 72 Demon street/race mobile
Latest: 70 Duster backhalf car
and even more
Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue [Re: herkamer] #929655
02/19/11 04:40 PM
02/19/11 04:40 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar Offline
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Is the shift delayed in auto/drive mode, manual shift mode or both?
How many front clutch springs are you using, and did you install the restrictor from the shift kit into the trans case?
What type of front band material, and is it adjusted correctly?
I would try loosening the front band adjustment about 1/4 turn first, because that would be the easiest thing to check/adjust.
You may have alot of seal leakage in the front clutch circuit, could be the pump to drum rings, or even the front servo leakage (you did put the seal ring in the servo cover?)
If the shift is slow even in manual mode, then if the restrictor was used in the case, I would remove it, and the front clutchs should apply quicker.

Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue [Re: 451Mopar] #929656
02/19/11 04:48 PM
02/19/11 04:48 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,305
Lakewood, Colorado
herkamer Offline OP
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herkamer  Offline OP
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Quote:

Is the shift delayed in auto/drive mode, manual shift mode or both?
Both

How many front clutch springs are you using, and did you install the restrictor from the shift kit into the trans case?
However many were in the stock drum, memory seems to want to say 12. Yes, restrictor is installed

What type of front band material, and is it adjusted correctly?
Stock type front band. Not sure on the adjustment, it is set to what Transgo calls for in the shift kit manual.

you did put the seal ring in the servo cover?
Yes, all seals/rings were replaced.





Matt
69 Dart Swinger 340
83 W350, Megasquirted with 46RH
Old news: 72 Demon street/race mobile
Latest: 70 Duster backhalf car
and even more
Re: 518 delayed 2-3 shift woes continue [Re: herkamer] #929657
02/19/11 05:03 PM
02/19/11 05:03 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar Offline
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If you go to remove the restrictor, pressure check (air) from where the restrictor is and make sure there is not alot of hissing that could indicate a broken seal ring at the pump/drum, or a bad front drum piston seal.
You may want to run a flat file over the case where the valve body attaches to make sure there are no high spots causing a bad valve body to case seal.
Since the valve body is out, might as will double check that it's assembled correctly with the shift kit?

I would still try re-adjusting the front band first, just because it's easy.

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