Help picking a cam
#927459
02/13/11 01:05 AM
02/13/11 01:05 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 302 Middle of the US
Verga
OP
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Need some help picking a cam for a low budget build. .040 over 440, Keith Black pistons, 6 pack rods. 10 to 1 compression. Street Dominator Intake, 800 Holley Double Pumper, 346 heads that are stock except being freshened. 2 inch headers. Car should weigh around 3800 lbs. I have a 9.5 inch converter that should flash close to 4 thousand RPMs. 3.55 or 4.10 gear. Im figuring the headers are probably a little big, but that is all I have at the moment. Due to a shortage of funds, Im stuck with an off the shelf grind. Looking for recommendations for both a solid and a hydraulic. If anybody has built a similar motor, ET, MPH and cam used would be great also!!! BTW, Im not interested in the VooDoo grinds, anything else is fine. Long story.
Last edited by Verga; 02/13/11 01:09 AM.
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Re: Help picking a cam
[Re: Verga]
#927462
02/13/11 04:01 AM
02/13/11 04:01 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
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Quote:
BTW, Im not interested in the VooDoo grinds, anything else is fine. Long story.
I run a voodoo cam, no problems. I would have suggested a voodoo 60304 would fit the bill nicely.
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Re: Help picking a cam
[Re: Verga]
#927464
02/13/11 02:38 PM
02/13/11 02:38 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,456 oklahoma
forphorty
pro stock
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pro stock
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Since you said budget build, i'm guessing you may be using the stock rockers. If so, i've had good luck with the old Comp 292 Magnum hyd. .030 440 8.5 comp, 906s pocket ported when i was 20yo and didn't know what i was doing(still don't), Torker,750dp, 10 in GER stalled about 3800, 3.23s, 28 x9 slicks, 68 Satellite street car all steel except for 6 pak hood. 12.35 at 106, 1.69 60 ft. Cam has been in for about 25 years and hasn't gone flat yet in spite of me not always changing the oil as often as i should. Car sometimes sits for months and then might be driven almost every day for a while.
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Re: Help picking a cam
[Re: forphorty]
#927466
02/13/11 03:23 PM
02/13/11 03:23 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 302 Middle of the US
Verga
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Quote:
Since you said budget build, i'm guessing you may be using the stock rockers. If so, i've had good luck with the old Comp 292 Magnum hyd. .030 440 8.5 comp, 906s pocket ported when i was 20yo and didn't know what i was doing(still don't), Torker,750dp, 10 in GER stalled about 3800, 3.23s, 28 x9 slicks, 68 Satellite street car all steel except for 6 pak hood. 12.35 at 106, 1.69 60 ft. Cam has been in for about 25 years and hasn't gone flat yet in spite of me not always changing the oil as often as i should. Car sometimes sits for months and then might be driven almost every day for a while.
Ive actually got some 1.6 rockers.
What RPM do you shift that cam?
Thanks
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Re: Help picking a cam
[Re: Verga]
#927467
02/13/11 05:00 PM
02/13/11 05:00 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,456 oklahoma
forphorty
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Nov 2006
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oklahoma
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Quote:
Quote:
Since you said budget build, i'm guessing you may be using the stock rockers. If so, i've had good luck with the old Comp 292 Magnum hyd. .030 440 8.5 comp, 906s pocket ported when i was 20yo and didn't know what i was doing(still don't), Torker,750dp, 10 in GER stalled about 3800, 3.23s, 28 x9 slicks, 68 Satellite street car all steel except for 6 pak hood. 12.35 at 106, 1.69 60 ft. Cam has been in for about 25 years and hasn't gone flat yet in spite of me not always changing the oil as often as i should. Car sometimes sits for months and then might be driven almost every day for a while.
Ive actually got some 1.6 rockers.
What RPM do you shift that cam?
Thanks
5800
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Re: Help picking a cam
[Re: Verga]
#927470
02/13/11 10:21 PM
02/13/11 10:21 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825 Sk. Canada
RemCharger
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Quote:
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Narrow down to solid or hydraulic first?
Lets say a solid.
Looks like the Comp 292 should work if I go with a hyd.
There are way better cams now then the old cc292. A buddy of mine built a very similar deal last year, had an old comp 280 (230@50) and went to the comp 284xe and gained around a half second. This was in a fully stock body '68 Bee, ended up going 11.6X .
I have had good luck with the.528 mp solid too, but there are better grinds now worth investigating.
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Re: Help picking a cam
[Re: RemCharger]
#927471
02/13/11 11:13 PM
02/13/11 11:13 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma
Von
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Quote:
There are way better cams now then the old cc292.
Not sure on "way better" part......I laugh everytime a new grind is the shiznit, and the old stuff is junk. My junk runs decent (11.30s)with pretty old lobes (Comp TL lobes).....Thinkin about having Dwayne grind me a cam with the super duper new stuff for a comparison.
A buddy of mine built a very similar deal last year, had an old comp 280 (230@50) and went to the comp 284xe and gained around a half second. This was in a fully stock body '68 Bee, ended up going 11.6X .
Well lets see... the XE284 grind has 10 more degrees on the intake side than the 280, 16 more on the exhaust..., not to mention the extra .25 ish more of lift. The XE grind has 13 more degrees at .200 than the 280. So yeah, it should be quicker. I dont think that is a good comparison.
The XE274 would be a better comparison. 3 degrees more at .200 than the 280. Same intake duration at .050.
The XE284 and 292Mag would be a much better comparison, for the larger grinds. I'll throw it out that in a heavy car the 292 takes the XE284......
Im not a fan of split duration cams, and after talking at length with Dwayne, I understand why.
Last edited by Von; 02/13/11 11:17 PM.
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: Help picking a cam
[Re: RemCharger]
#927473
02/13/11 11:26 PM
02/13/11 11:26 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma
Von
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All I was trying to get at is don't buy a sh!++% old cam. I subscribe to the theory that there is no such thing as too big of a cam/conv/gear. Of course this is the wrong forum for that, but I must explain where I come from.
I agree on the cam/conv/gear thing, but not that the 292 is a sh$$$ old cam. Ive known forphorty for a long time and his stuff runs hard...with hardly anything. Ask the all knowers if his stuff should run 12.30s with... gasp....3.23s...
Last edited by Von; 02/13/11 11:28 PM.
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: Help picking a cam
[Re: Von]
#927475
02/13/11 11:42 PM
02/13/11 11:42 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825 Sk. Canada
RemCharger
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Quote:
All I was trying to get at is don't buy a sh!++% old cam. I subscribe to the theory that there is no such thing as too big of a cam/conv/gear. Of course this is the wrong forum for that, but I must explain where I come from.
I agree on the cam/conv/gear thing, but not that the 292 is a sh$$$ old cam. Ive known forphorty for a long time and his stuff runs hard...with hardly anything. Ask the all knowers if his stuff should run 12.30s with... gasp....3.23s...
The only reason I would disagree with that is there are better cams now. The lift on that is .501(?)...And with the bending and deflection of stuff, its under 500 lift. Don't get me wrong, I've seen those cams work too.
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Re: Help picking a cam
[Re: RemCharger]
#927476
02/13/11 11:56 PM
02/13/11 11:56 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275 Desert Tracker
HYPER8oSoNic
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Quote:
Quote:
All I was trying to get at is don't buy a sh!++% old cam. I subscribe to the theory that there is no such thing as too big of a cam/conv/gear. Of course this is the wrong forum for that, but I must explain where I come from.
I agree on the cam/conv/gear thing, but not that the 292 is a sh$$$ old cam. Ive known forphorty for a long time and his stuff runs hard...with hardly anything. Ask the all knowers if his stuff should run 12.30s with... gasp....3.23s...
The only reason I would disagree with that is there are better cams now. The lift on that is .501(?)...And with the bending and deflection of stuff, its under 500 lift. Don't get me wrong, I've seen those cams work too.
A lot of guys optimize those MP cams to run better times with the rest of the combo on the engine. It's a hit or miss game, what could be the cam holding power back could actually be tuning problems, wrong intake, exhaust restrictions, too heavy car for combo, etc. or visa-versa. EVERYTHING has to work together to produce good power!! And yes, not everybody wants to run an MP cam, there ARE many other choices.
"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids" "Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
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Re: Help picking a cam
[Re: HYPER8oSoNic]
#927477
02/14/11 12:18 AM
02/14/11 12:18 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma
Von
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Quote:
[ A lot of guys optimize those MP cams
Who said anything about a MP cam??
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: Help picking a cam
[Re: RemCharger]
#927478
02/14/11 12:21 AM
02/14/11 12:21 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma
Von
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
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NE Oklahoma
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Please define better....and why more lift is needed with stock castings?
Ive already discussed the same subject with Dwayne...
Last edited by Von; 02/14/11 12:23 AM.
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: Help picking a cam
[Re: Von]
#927479
02/14/11 12:36 AM
02/14/11 12:36 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825 Sk. Canada
RemCharger
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Quote:
Please define better....and why more lift is needed with stock castings?
Ive already discussed the same subject with Dwayne...
True, it will run real nice with a stock cam.
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Re: Help picking a cam
[Re: RemCharger]
#927480
02/14/11 12:38 AM
02/14/11 12:38 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma
Von
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master
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Quote:
with a stock cam.
Ya, how do stockers run so well with sub 500 lift.
Last edited by Von; 02/14/11 12:39 AM.
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: Help picking a cam
[Re: HYPER8oSoNic]
#927482
02/14/11 12:41 AM
02/14/11 12:41 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma
Von
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
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Quote:
Relax man!
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: Help picking a cam
[Re: Von]
#927483
02/14/11 12:52 AM
02/14/11 12:52 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825 Sk. Canada
RemCharger
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with a stock cam.
Ya, how do stockers run so well with sub 500 lift.
Sorry, I didn't realize the OP is building a Stock/SuperStock car. Must be reading to fast.
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Re: Help picking a cam
[Re: RemCharger]
#927485
02/14/11 01:12 AM
02/14/11 01:12 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma
Von
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
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NE Oklahoma
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72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: Help picking a cam
[Re: Von]
#927487
02/14/11 01:31 AM
02/14/11 01:31 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275 Desert Tracker
HYPER8oSoNic
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You got me ROTFLMAO... http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/bb/Lobe.htmlDang RB and MP old technology....Sure wish they would have tested some of the newer shiznit grinds. Oh wait...they did... Here, I'm throwing it back at ya!! The update (test page), works WELL for 3500-3600 pound B-bodies. The poster has nearly TWO-TONS of car. The performance of those cams DO NOT relate to his CAR WEIGHT!! Look, I'm not knocking the newer cams, but you fail to realize that WEIGHT effects the perfomance. You can make horsepower, but torque is needed to move the MASS effectively. Want to run HARDER, lighten the car!! THEN, pack in the horsepower. BTW, the RACER BROWN cam looked pretty good, probably the most driveable one of the bunch!
Last edited by HYPER8oSoNic; 02/14/11 01:47 AM.
"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids" "Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
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Re: Help picking a cam
[Re: HYPER8oSoNic]
#927490
02/14/11 01:56 AM
02/14/11 01:56 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma
Von
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Joined: Oct 2003
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Quote:
The performance of those cams DO NOT relate to his CAR WEIGHT!! Look, I'm not knocking the newer cams, but you fail to realize that WEIGHT effects the perfomance.
How do the cams NOT relate to car weight??? Look at the torque #s the RB cam put up.
I think you are not seeing my problem with some of the comments on this thread,and most other cam threads. To make the statement that "this cam, or that cam sucks, is out dated, is a SHi445 pos, etc", is totally ridicoulous.
As you said its all in the combination......I agree that most cam related problems are due to other issues, (compression, converter, advance curve, tuning, etc)
But, as in forphorty's case (whose car is no lighweight, 3600 and change I believe) if I asked 100 people what his car runs with no compression, 3.23s, very little headwork, and a high mileage motor to boot, most generally the answer would be "That cam is too big, it will be a flippin hound" or something along those lines.
Too many blanket statements thrown out on this board that are at best half true.
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: Help picking a cam
[Re: Von]
#927491
02/14/11 01:57 AM
02/14/11 01:57 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825 Sk. Canada
RemCharger
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with a stock cam.
Ya, how do stockers run so well with sub 500 lift.
Sorry, I didn't realize the OP is building a Stock/SuperStock car. Must be reading to fast.
You got me ROTFLMAO...
http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/bb/Lobe.html
Dang RB and MP old technology....Sure wish they would have tested some of the newer shiznit grinds. Oh wait...they did...
Peace Out!!!
Could you at least post the whole article? I didn't see the part about the sub 500 lift cams.
Andy is a serious asset to the mopar community, I'm honoured to see he recommends the same hydraulic as I do
Glad we can finally agree and move forward.
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Re: Help picking a cam
[Re: RemCharger]
#927492
02/14/11 02:05 AM
02/14/11 02:05 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma
Von
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Quote:
Could you at least post the whole article? I didn't see the part about the sub 500 lift cams.
You hittin a crack pipe? Where did I say they tested sub 500 lift cams....
he recommends the same hydraulic as I do
Not so fast there, pundit. Looks like the old school crap RB cam took the honors.... Something to the lines that they could tell the shiznit Comp hyd didnt have the low end that the RB cam had and the dyno backed it up. Hmm, split duration had less torque than the POS old school RB, where have I heard that before?
Last edited by Von; 02/14/11 02:25 AM.
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: Help picking a cam
[Re: Von]
#927493
02/14/11 02:25 AM
02/14/11 02:25 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825 Sk. Canada
RemCharger
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Quote:
Could you at least post the whole article? I didn't see the part about the sub 500 lift cams.
You hittin a crack pipe? Where did I say they tested sub 500 lift cams....
he recommends the same hydraulic as I do
Not so fast there, pundit. Looks like the old school crap RB cam took the honors.... Something to the lines that they could tell the shiznit Comp hyd didnt have the low end that the RB cam had and the dyno backed it up. Hmm, split duration had less torque than the POS old school RB, where have I heard that before?
BTW, which cam company is high lighted in the sources box??
I'm not going to dwell into Andys article as he would tell you ,which I'm sure you know, every combination is different. I said I like the XE284 over the old comp 292/501. You got agitated. Too bad we couldn't have a dyno shootout in that motor and see.Probably wouldn't end up being that far from each other.
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Re: Help picking a cam
[Re: RemCharger]
#927494
02/14/11 02:28 AM
02/14/11 02:28 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma
Von
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[quoteI said I like the XE284 over the old comp 292/501. You got agitated. Actually said that the 292 was a shi%%^ old cam. But,no harm no foul. Too bad we couldn't have a dyno shootout in that motor and see.Probably wouldn't end up being that far from each other.
Now back on track, so to speak...
Last edited by Von; 02/14/11 02:30 AM.
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: Help picking a cam
[Re: Von]
#927495
02/14/11 02:33 AM
02/14/11 02:33 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825 Sk. Canada
RemCharger
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Quote:
[quoteI said I like the XE284 over the old comp 292/501. You got agitated.
Actually said that the 292 was a shi%%^ old cam. But,no harm no foul.
Too bad we couldn't have a dyno shootout in that motor and see.Probably wouldn't end up being that far from each other.
Now back on track, so to speak...
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Re: Help picking a cam
[Re: Verga]
#927498
02/15/11 02:13 PM
02/15/11 02:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,840 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 17,840
S.E. Michigan
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10:1, 2" headers, 4000 stall and 4.10s.
Yep, put a .557 MP cam in it and let it eat.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: Help picking a cam
[Re: HYPER8oSoNic]
#927499
02/16/11 01:04 AM
02/16/11 01:04 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275 Desert Tracker
HYPER8oSoNic
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Quote:
You got me ROTFLMAO...
http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/bb/Lobe.html
Dang RB and MP old technology....Sure wish they would have tested some of the newer shiznit grinds. Oh wait...they did...
Here, I'm throwing it back at ya!! The update (test page), works WELL for 3500-3600 pound B-bodies. The poster has nearly TWO-TONS of car. The performance of those cams DO NOT relate to his CAR WEIGHT!! Look, I'm not knocking the newer cams, but you fail to realize that WEIGHT effects the perfomance. You can make horsepower, but torque is needed to move the MASS effectively. Want to run HARDER, lighten the car!! THEN, pack in the horsepower. BTW, the RACER BROWN cam looked pretty good, probably the most driveable one of the bunch!
First of all Andy produced a GREAT article as always, very informative and detailed. Major props to him!! Next is the issue about weight and power. As a simple recap, I looked at the highest torque producing cam that had driveability manners. Thats why I look at car weights vs. cam lift/duration. All I'm saying is that the heavier the car, the more torque has to be placed in the engine power range at lower side and midrange (2500-5000 rpm). The car can horsepower up to 6000-6500 maybe, but it's the effective torque at the lower scale which MOVES the mass and the horsepower maintains the momentum.
"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids" "Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
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Re: Help picking a cam
[Re: HYPER8oSoNic]
#927500
02/16/11 02:11 AM
02/16/11 02:11 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma
Von
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[quote. All I'm saying is that the heavier the car, the more torque has to be placed in the engine power range at lower side and midrange (2500-5000 rpm).
Agreed. Heavy car =grind it on a 108 and put in real early, 100-102 and let it eat....
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: Help picking a cam
[Re: Von]
#927507
04/30/11 11:18 PM
04/30/11 11:18 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275 Desert Tracker
HYPER8oSoNic
top fuel
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Quote:
Quote:
The performance of those cams DO NOT relate to his CAR WEIGHT!! Look, I'm not knocking the newer cams, but you fail to realize that WEIGHT effects the perfomance.
How do the cams NOT relate to car weight??? Look at the torque #s the RB cam put up.
I think you are not seeing my problem with some of the comments on this thread,and most other cam threads. To make the statement that "this cam, or that cam sucks, is out dated, is a SHi445 pos, etc", is totally ridicoulous.
As you said its all in the combination......I agree that most cam related problems are due to other issues, (compression, converter, advance curve, tuning, etc)
But, as in forphorty's case (whose car is no lighweight, 3600 and change I believe) if I asked 100 people what his car runs with no compression, 3.23s, very little headwork, and a high mileage motor to boot, most generally the answer would be "That cam is too big, it will be a flippin hound" or something along those lines.
Too many blanket statements thrown out on this board that are at best half true.
No, there are NO blanket statements here, just the human nature of each individual who HAS a certain combo on their thinking it's the best. Not all MOPARS that rolled off the line are 100% exactly alike!! They vary in weight, trim packages, body styles, engine/drivetrain, etc. So the thought of one cam fits several combos is seldom and for the combo to run alike is far and few, unless they are 100% "clones".
"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids" "Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
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