Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Lunati voodoo cam (60301 and 60302) and 440-4 #909423
01/20/11 03:33 PM
01/20/11 03:33 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 582
PA
B
BTTG Offline OP
mopar
BTTG  Offline OP
mopar
B

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 582
PA
Looking for a cam for my 69 440-4 (HP) auto, 3.55 sure-grip, 906 heads, carter AVS carb, cast intake, HP exhaust manifolds. Engine is close to factory stock for 69 except has a MOPAR electronic ignition and has been bored 0.030" over (my calculated compression ratio is 8.5 now with 0.04" thick head gaskets, but can be bumped up to 8.9 if I use a 0.02" compressed thickness head gasket (based on my calcs). Looking for best cam to use with minimal to no upgrades on the valvetrain side of things (head work, adjustable rockers, etc...).

looking at hughes website they say that anything with greater than 0.450" lift requires the valve guides be shortened (this means anything greater than stock). Is this correct and does it apply to other cams? doesn't sound right.

My thoughts were either of these 2 lunati voodoo cams. I know they are small in duration, but was unsure how much the reworking of the lift rates, etc... influences power generation. The second cam requires upgraded valve springs and suggests adjustable rockers. So I would lean towards the first.

#1
Part Number: 60301
http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=1577&gid=283
* Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 256/262
* Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 213/220
* Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .454/.475
* LSA/ICL: 112/108
* Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
* RPM Range: 1000-5500
* Includes: Cam Only

#2
Part Number: 60302
http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=1578

* Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 262/268
* Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 220/226
* Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .475/.494
* LSA/ICL: 112/108
* Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
* RPM Range: 1400-5800
* Includes: Cam Only

What type of upgrade would either of these be compared to the stock cam? Both give an extended RPM rage over stock. Any thoughts or other suggestions? As is common money is a bit of an issue so I am not looking to buy new pistons and get the CR back up over 10 and spin this thing to 6500, but rather have a nice restored car in stock dress (exhaust manifolds, cast intake, carter carb), that offers a better seat of the pants experience without a $4K overhaul.

Anyone use Mancini's (MRE) 0.020" thickness steel head gaskets?
Would their use require milling to the heads or intake to align things?
Thanks

Re: Lunati voodoo cam (60301 and 60302) and 440-4 [Re: BTTG] #909424
01/20/11 04:46 PM
01/20/11 04:46 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
Happy Birthday RapidRobert  Offline
Circle Track

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
I'm not a cam guy but I think #1 would be a shoo in. OT You might get an eddy strip kit (pick the one w sizes close to what you have now) & experiment a bit w the rods/jets/springs in your oe AVS (fill the domed metering rod caps w epoxy to make them flat like eddie/AFB ones are which is needed to use 2 step rods and 2 step rods require the shorter AFB/eddy jets as opposed to the taller OE AVS ones used w 3 step rods)


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Lunati voodoo cam (60301 and 60302) and 440-4 [Re: BTTG] #909425
01/20/11 07:16 PM
01/20/11 07:16 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,295
dark side of the moon
D
Dougsmopars Offline
top fuel
Dougsmopars  Offline
top fuel
D

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,295
dark side of the moon
My 440 has the 513/533 Voodo cam. Stock steel rockers and no head work in the guide area. Runs super, very good street manners. I use stock manifolds a MP HEI and now using a Hollet street dominator with an 850 TQ carb.Car pulls hard to 6200 rpm.

Re: Lunati voodoo cam (60301 and 60302) and 440-4 [Re: Dougsmopars] #909426
01/20/11 08:12 PM
01/20/11 08:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,122
Grand Haven, MI
patrick Offline
I Live Here
patrick  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,122
Grand Haven, MI
go with #2, use comp #911 springs


1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
Re: Lunati voodoo cam (60301 and 60302) and 440-4 [Re: patrick] #909427
01/21/11 12:15 AM
01/21/11 12:15 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
H
HYPER8oSoNic Offline
top fuel
HYPER8oSoNic  Offline
top fuel
H

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
Good low end and midrange power on #2.
Stock 440 Magnum converter is compatable with this grind. Optimize the jeting and ignition timing and you are good to go!


Last edited by HYPER8oSoNic; 01/21/11 12:18 AM.

"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: Lunati voodoo cam (60301 and 60302) and 440-4 [Re: HYPER8oSoNic] #909428
01/21/11 02:10 PM
01/21/11 02:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 102
Colo
P
PJ68RT Offline
member
PJ68RT  Offline
member
P

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 102
Colo
You might also want to look at Lunati's "Factory" grind cam. It is inbetween those two. 216/226 @.050 if i recall.

Re: Lunati voodoo cam (60301 and 60302) and 440-4 [Re: patrick] #909429
01/21/11 03:13 PM
01/21/11 03:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,186
Wherever I am.
J
Junky Offline
master
Junky  Offline
master
J

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,186
Wherever I am.
Quote:

go with #2, use comp #911 springs



You won't be sorry.


2010 Black Challenger SE <> 3.5 V6
Custom Shift Knobs www.flameball.com Check It Out
Re: Lunati voodoo cam (60301 and 60302) and 440-4 [Re: Junky] #909430
01/21/11 03:23 PM
01/21/11 03:23 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 582
PA
B
BTTG Offline OP
mopar
BTTG  Offline OP
mopar
B

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 582
PA
With the 60302 cam and Comp 911 springs
1) coil bind is a non-issue right? since the lift is below 0.5"
2) for such a small cam shimming the springs is also is not an issue right? just pop in and run?

Re: Lunati voodoo cam (60301 and 60302) and 440-4 [Re: BTTG] #909431
01/21/11 03:40 PM
01/21/11 03:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
F
Fury Fan Offline
master
Fury Fan  Offline
master
F

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
I can't speak for the .050 duration, but cam #1 is pretty close to the non-HP 440 cam, which is comparable to a 383-2 cam back when I researched a cam for my 440.


FWIW, I read a BUNCH of 440 cam threads, then chose one of the conservative ones that was discussed. And it was the 60302. (Haven't installed it yet, though).

Re: Lunati voodoo cam (60301 and 60302) and 440-4 [Re: Fury Fan] #909432
01/21/11 03:54 PM
01/21/11 03:54 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906
IL, Aurora
A
ademon Offline
master
ademon  Offline
master
A

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906
IL, Aurora
i have the 302 in a near stock 383 4 - speed, 17" of vacuum at idle 850rpm's pulls much stronger than i thought it would in the low to mid

Re: Lunati voodoo cam (60301 and 60302) and 440-4 [Re: Fury Fan] #909433
01/21/11 03:57 PM
01/21/11 03:57 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 582
PA
B
BTTG Offline OP
mopar
BTTG  Offline OP
mopar
B

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 582
PA
I realize the specs on cam 1 (Lunati 60301) are similar to stock. supposedly it revs to 5500 w/ power though and the HP and torque curves are "better" than stock (haven't seen these myself anywhere).

To me this suggests that the less tangible aspects of the cam (beyond duration and valve lift) must be coming into play. Presumably this relates to the lobes assymetries, greater opening rates, etc... that have advanced a lot since the MOPAR cams were developed decades ago.

Don't know what that in fact is worth. Guess you would actually need to see the torque HP curves to know for sure or ET's pre and post.

Initially, was planning on #1 as Lunati recommended that one, but after seeing some of these posts am now leaning more towards the 60302. That's why i asked here although there are 1000 other "what cam" posts. When I asked Lunati why not the 60302 my desire to use the stamped unadjustable rockers seemed to be the clincher. from what I have heard here the stock stamped rockers should not be an issue. I plan on upgrading the springs to the Comp Cams 911 or the Lunati model they recommend.

Waiting to hear back, but I believe there are no issues to worry about with either spring as far as coil bind etc.... in such a small lift cam.

also on a side not if the power range for this is 1400-5800 rpm do people really spin their 440's up that high on an otherwise stock engine? that was the other thing that kept me considering the 60301 (1000-5500 rpm range)

Thanks!

Re: Lunati voodoo cam (60301 and 60302) and 440-4 [Re: BTTG] #909434
01/21/11 05:58 PM
01/21/11 05:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,948
British Columbia
C
chrisf Offline
master
chrisf  Offline
master
C

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,948
British Columbia
i have the 302 cam in a 10.1 383. works well good power should be fairly mellow in a 440

Re: Lunati voodoo cam (60301 and 60302) and 440-4 [Re: Fury Fan] #909435
01/21/11 06:17 PM
01/21/11 06:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,122
Grand Haven, MI
patrick Offline
I Live Here
patrick  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,122
Grand Haven, MI
Quote:

I can't speak for the .050 duration, but cam #1 is pretty close to the non-HP 440 cam, which is comparable to a 383-2 cam back when I researched a cam for my 440.


FWIW, I read a BUNCH of 440 cam threads, then chose one of the conservative ones that was discussed. And it was the 60302. (Haven't installed it yet, though).




only in advertised duration...lift and .050, .2" on up duration is much, much larger than the original lo-po cam.


1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
Re: Lunati voodoo cam (60301 and 60302) and 440-4 [Re: chrisf] #909436
01/21/11 06:19 PM
01/21/11 06:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,122
Grand Haven, MI
patrick Offline
I Live Here
patrick  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,122
Grand Haven, MI
I had a comp XE262 in a 360, and it was very streetable, with only a mild lope, so the extra 80" of displacement should really tame down the low RPM drivability.

IIRC lunati recommends dual springs which will require machining the head...but their springs spec pretty close to the comp 911, which should drop on, and even use the factory retainer.


1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
Re: Lunati voodoo cam (60301 and 60302) and 440-4 [Re: BTTG] #909437
01/21/11 09:42 PM
01/21/11 09:42 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,309
Prospect, PA
BSB67 Offline
master
BSB67  Offline
master

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,309
Prospect, PA
302

Re: Lunati voodoo cam (60301 and 60302) and 440-4 [Re: BSB67] #909438
01/22/11 12:35 AM
01/22/11 12:35 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,200
UK
6
602heavy Offline
pro stock
602heavy  Offline
pro stock
6

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,200
UK
60301 would be my choice for a nice street car.........don't concern youreself with .050" #s , look & seat duration as this is what determines street manners.


Re: Lunati voodoo cam (60301 and 60302) and 440-4 [Re: BTTG] #909439
01/22/11 04:48 AM
01/22/11 04:48 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906
IL, Aurora
A
ademon Offline
master
ademon  Offline
master
A

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906
IL, Aurora
Quote:

I realize the specs on cam 1 (Lunati 60301) are similar to stock. supposedly it revs to 5500 w/ power though and the HP and torque curves are "better" than stock (haven't seen these myself anywhere).

To me this suggests that the less tangible aspects of the cam (beyond duration and valve lift) must be coming into play. Presumably this relates to the lobes assymetries, greater opening rates, etc... that have advanced a lot since the MOPAR cams were developed decades ago.

Don't know what that in fact is worth. Guess you would actually need to see the torque HP curves to know for sure or ET's pre and post.

Initially, was planning on #1 as Lunati recommended that one, but after seeing some of these posts am now leaning more towards the 60302. That's why i asked here although there are 1000 other "what cam" posts. When I asked Lunati why not the 60302 my desire to use the stamped unadjustable rockers seemed to be the clincher. from what I have heard here the stock stamped rockers should not be an issue. I plan on upgrading the springs to the Comp Cams 911 or the Lunati model they recommend.

Waiting to hear back, but I believe there are no issues to worry about with either spring as far as coil bind etc.... in such a small lift cam.

also on a side not if the power range for this is 1400-5800 rpm do people really spin their 440's up that high on an otherwise stock engine? that was the other thing that kept me considering the 60301 (1000-5500 rpm range)

Thanks!



the 302 in my 383 has power from the 1,400 to about 5400 or so, it makes most of the power at least in my engine between 2200 and 5K i think the power dropping off at 5,400 has more to do with the stock small AVS and stock intake,

Re: Lunati voodoo cam (60301 and 60302) and 440-4 [Re: BTTG] #909440
01/22/11 02:45 PM
01/22/11 02:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,186
Wherever I am.
J
Junky Offline
master
Junky  Offline
master
J

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,186
Wherever I am.
Quote:

With the 60302 cam and Comp 911 springs
1) coil bind is a non-issue right? since the lift is below 0.5"
2) for such a small cam shimming the springs is also is not an issue right? just pop in and run?



I run stamp steel rockers and the Comp 911 springs with a 0.518" lift cam. No problems.

I did run the XE262H Comp Cam in my 383, very similar to the Voodoo 301. It was a mild cam for a 383, but I'd wind the engine up to 5700k all day long. That's were it liked it. That's why I recommend the 302 for a 440. It's still gonna be rather mild for you, but should perform better than a stock HP cam.


2010 Black Challenger SE <> 3.5 V6
Custom Shift Knobs www.flameball.com Check It Out
Re: Lunati voodoo cam (60301 and 60302) and 440-4 [Re: ademon] #909441
01/22/11 02:55 PM
01/22/11 02:55 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
H
HYPER8oSoNic Offline
top fuel
HYPER8oSoNic  Offline
top fuel
H

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
Quote:

Quote:

I realize the specs on cam 1 (Lunati 60301) are similar to stock. supposedly it revs to 5500 w/ power though and the HP and torque curves are "better" than stock (haven't seen these myself anywhere).

To me this suggests that the less tangible aspects of the cam (beyond duration and valve lift) must be coming into play. Presumably this relates to the lobes assymetries, greater opening rates, etc... that have advanced a lot since the MOPAR cams were developed decades ago.

Don't know what that in fact is worth. Guess you would actually need to see the torque HP curves to know for sure or ET's pre and post.

Initially, was planning on #1 as Lunati recommended that one, but after seeing some of these posts am now leaning more towards the 60302. That's why i asked here although there are 1000 other "what cam" posts. When I asked Lunati why not the 60302 my desire to use the stamped unadjustable rockers seemed to be the clincher. from what I have heard here the stock stamped rockers should not be an issue. I plan on upgrading the springs to the Comp Cams 911 or the Lunati model they recommend.

Waiting to hear back, but I believe there are no issues to worry about with either spring as far as coil bind etc.... in such a small lift cam.

also on a side not if the power range for this is 1400-5800 rpm do people really spin their 440's up that high on an otherwise stock engine? that was the other thing that kept me considering the 60301 (1000-5500 rpm range)

Thanks!



the 302 in my 383 has power from the 1,400 to about 5400 or so, it makes most of the power at least in my engine between 2200 and 5K i think the power dropping off at 5,400 has more to do with the stock small AVS and stock intake,




More of a carb issue than the intake.



"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: Lunati voodoo cam (60301 and 60302) and 440-4 [Re: 602heavy] #909442
01/22/11 05:33 PM
01/22/11 05:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,309
Prospect, PA
BSB67 Offline
master
BSB67  Offline
master

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,309
Prospect, PA
Quote:

60301 would be my choice for a nice street car.........don't concern youreself with .050" #s , look & seat duration as this is what determines street manners.






Exactly, and the 302 has shorter seat timing than the factory hp cam. It only have 41 degrees overlap verses the factory 46.

Page 1 of 2 1 2






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1