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Bad driveline vibration after manual trans UPDATED #906634
01/16/11 06:23 PM
01/16/11 06:23 PM
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440challenger Offline OP
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I swaped out the auto trans in my roadrunner for a a833 4 speed setup. I used the same driveshaft from the auto and the correct year manual trans cross member. I now have a very bad vibration at anything 60mph or over. If i press the clutch in when it vibrates no change.

I did notice that my drive shaft is pushed into the tail housing almost all the way to the yoke. Could this be the problem?

Last edited by 440challenger; 03/14/11 09:28 AM.
Re: Bad driveline vibration after manual trans install [Re: 440challenger] #906635
01/16/11 06:53 PM
01/16/11 06:53 PM
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peabodyracing Offline
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Vibration problems like that can drive you crazy. I'm not aware that the driveshaft length is different between manual and automatic transmission. Since it doesn't change when you depress the clutch it's probably a safe bet the problem is alignment or support.

Two thoughts: 1) double check that you got the u joint caps seated properly on the 3rd member yoke. 2) You didn't mention the condition of the 4 speed. I'd be concerned about the brass bushing inside the tail stock of the 4 speed which the slip yoke goes into. I've had high speed vibration issues because of those being worn, but often the vibration will over power the rear seal and you'll have fluid leaking out the back of the tranny.

Hope this helps.


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Re: Bad driveline vibration after manual trans install [Re: 440challenger] #906636
01/16/11 06:56 PM
01/16/11 06:56 PM
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Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda Offline
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You did check the bellhousing alignment to the block right?

Re: Bad driveline vibration after manual trans install [Re: 440challenger] #906637
01/16/11 07:30 PM
01/16/11 07:30 PM
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I did notice that my drive shaft is pushed into the tail housing almost all the way to the yoke. Could this be the problem?








Sounds like your problem area, whether the shaft worked with the automatic, is a mute point now, you need some (3/4"-1") Slip play to allow the shaft/spline movement as the rear suspension compresses over it's travel,....I'd suspect you have a Dodge drive shaft in your Plymouth, as they are different,....measure the shaft center to center, here's the specs

68-9 Dodge B body BBlk 4spd w/ 8 3/4......52 1/16"
68-9 Dodge B body BBLK 4spd w/ 9 3/4......50.960"

68-9 Plymouth B body BBlk 4spd w/ 8 3/4...51.500"
69-9 Plymouth B Body BBlk 4spd w/ 9 3/4...50.390"

Re: Bad driveline vibration after manual trans install [Re: DAYCLONA] #906638
01/16/11 08:24 PM
01/16/11 08:24 PM
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remove the yoke from drive shaft slid it in the tranz till it bottom out

measure from cent of cup to center of cups on the rear diff

subtrac 1" to get correct length

check pinion angles also

make sure u-joints move freely in the yokes

make sure they are greesed up good


Re: Bad driveline vibration after manual trans install [Re: DAYCLONA] #906639
01/16/11 08:51 PM
01/16/11 08:51 PM
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440challenger Offline OP
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Good info guys. I will ck the u joints but they are new (within a year). Tail shaft bushing looked good when i visualy checked it out when replacing the seal. The driveshaft is a 68 b/c it has the big ring up front.. It could very well be a dodge shaft!

Re: Bad driveline vibration after manual trans install [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #906640
01/16/11 08:53 PM
01/16/11 08:53 PM
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440challenger Offline OP
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Quote:

You did check the bellhousing alignment to the block right?



No i did not. This is like a serious vibration. It feels and sounds exactly like when a joint fails while driving and it bangs around

Re: Bad driveline vibration after manual trans install [Re: 440challenger] #906641
01/16/11 09:12 PM
01/16/11 09:12 PM
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RapidRobert Offline
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Same yoke/shaft/ujoints right? That only leaves angle/butted/bushing/mount EDIT I'd get the rear up w a stout hyd floor jack (stands would be safer) and have a helper run it in gear & you (carefully) see what you see

Last edited by RapidRobert; 01/16/11 09:17 PM.

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Re: Bad driveline vibration after manual trans install [Re: RapidRobert] #906642
01/16/11 09:18 PM
01/16/11 09:18 PM
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440challenger Offline OP
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Yes all the same

Would the pinion angle change from installing a manual trans though? the car was smooth as silk with the auto. Would a pilot bushing cause this? the car doesnt grind any gears and isnt hard to get the car into gear?

Re: Bad driveline vibration after manual trans install [Re: 440challenger] #906643
01/16/11 09:43 PM
01/16/11 09:43 PM
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Chi_Town_Runner Offline
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Just a WAG

Did you change/replace the bushing in the crank?

Frank


Remember - 2 wrongs don't make a right - but 3 rights make a left!
Re: Bad driveline vibration after manual trans install [Re: Chi_Town_Runner] #906644
01/16/11 09:52 PM
01/16/11 09:52 PM
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440challenger Offline OP
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Quote:

Just a WAG

Did you change/replace the bushing in the crank?

Frank




Yes i replaced the bushing.

Re: Bad driveline vibration after manual trans install [Re: 440challenger] #906645
01/16/11 10:05 PM
01/16/11 10:05 PM
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446acuda Offline
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if the trans wasn't rebuilt it might be a bad rear bearing (aka center bearing to some people0

Re: Bad driveline vibration after manual trans install [Re: 440challenger] #906646
01/16/11 10:06 PM
01/16/11 10:06 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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I think the prob is right there at the tail end of the trans at the yoke


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Re: Bad driveline vibration after manual trans install [Re: 440challenger] #906647
01/17/11 12:00 AM
01/17/11 12:00 AM
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scratchnfotraction Offline
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I would ditch the balance ring on the shaft

get you a long shaft and have it cut down and balanced for a perfect fit..its allways cheaper to shortin it

cheap u-joints can wear fast with bad drive line angles/balance


Re: Bad driveline vibration after manual trans install [Re: scratchnfotraction] #906648
01/17/11 12:07 PM
01/17/11 12:07 PM
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Harley Offline
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Check your pinion angle.

Re: Bad driveline vibration after manual trans install [Re: 440challenger] #906649
01/18/11 06:24 PM
01/18/11 06:24 PM
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dvw Offline
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For what it's worth my Challenger has the same type of vibration. Bell housing is with-in .005" in both planes. U-Joint angle is 1.5 degrees at both ends of the drive shaft (one angle positive,one angle negative),new Dyno-tech shaft with less than .030" runout, 2 different sets of axle shafts. I've had 3 center sections in it,2.76,3.55,4.30. No vibration with the 2.76. Both the 3.55 and the 4.30 have been in my other car with no problems. I rebuilt the trans, no noise, shifts great. However back in the day I broke 3 drive shafts. One broke a bell housing, one broke the front driveshaft yoke. I'm wondering now if the input or output shaft/shafts are bent. I wouldn't have thought it posible,but. This summer my friends 66 Coronet lost a u-joint cap on the X-way at 55 MPH with 4.10 gears. It bent the output shaft at about a 20 degree angle. Though it was an automatic the shafts are similar in diameter.
I haven't got around to checking it yet.
Doug

Re: Bad driveline vibration after manual trans install [Re: 440challenger] #906650
01/18/11 06:33 PM
01/18/11 06:33 PM
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64dodge572 Offline
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Quote:

I swaped out the auto trans in my roadrunner for a a833 4 speed setup. I used the same driveshaft from the auto and the correct year manual trans cross member. I now have a very bad vibration at anything 60mph or over. If i press the clutch in when it vibrates no change.

I did notice that my drive shaft is pushed into the tail housing almost all the way to the yoke. Could this be the problem?



Is the vibration MPH related or RPM? I didn't see you mention what engine you have, Is the flywheel the correct balance for the engine?


Brewers Performance Inc.
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PH 937-947-4416 or 937-698-4259
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Re: Bad driveline vibration after manual trans install [Re: 64dodge572] #906651
01/18/11 08:40 PM
01/18/11 08:40 PM
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440challenger Offline OP
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Its MPH related. I have a steel crank 383 with the correct flywheel from brewers.

I havent gotten around to checking further into it with the nasty weather over here as it sits outside.

Re: Bad driveline vibration after manual trans install [Re: 440challenger] #906652
02/06/11 08:44 PM
02/06/11 08:44 PM
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440challenger Offline OP
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So i checked it out today. Took it for a ride and and here is what it does. It is deffiently MPH related.In fouth gear at anything over 3k rpm is vibrates like MAD. Its smooth as silk UNTIL that speed(probably around 60mph). The vibration resonates thought the driveline and will not go away until the car starts to slow down. If I pop it in neutral it has 0 effect.

I tried checking my pinion angle,not really sure where to exactly measure but i ended up putting my angle finder on the drive shaft and got -3 and then i put it on the pad where the pinion snubber is and got +3. Not sure if thats good? I ended up flipping the drive shaft 180 degrees in the yoke that did nouthing. SO then i figured let me try and put some shims under the trans mount to move the tailshaft up, Put about 3 fender shims under the mount and took the car out, made NO difference.

Im really not sure where to go from here. This car was so smooth with the automatic right before i converted to the manual. When i converted to the manual i used the correct 68 crossmember and mount, the SAME driveshaft that I had with the auto. I used all correct Mopar fastners for the flywheel and pressure plate. A reconditioned flywheel from Brewers and a new DF Centerforce clutch , all new linkage etc.

Pilot bushing is new also. I did not do any alignment with the bellhousing, i just bolted it on using the factory dowels.

This is a CRAZY vibration,like when it starts to vibrate, you have to back RIGHT off the throttle. makes about the same racket as if you were in a car and it spit a ujoint.

Any suggestions Please help. Im not sure what to do next?

Re: Bad driveline vibration after manual trans install [Re: 440challenger] #906653
02/06/11 09:20 PM
02/06/11 09:20 PM
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DoctorDiff Offline
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I would check the bushing in the crank and the bushing in the tail housing.

The crank bushing often gets beat out of round and/or seized/spun especially when installing a busing in an automatic crank.

What style of pilot bushing did you use? I like the new style that fits in the torque converter hub.

The transmission centerline should be parallel to the pinion centerline.

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