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Re: Subframe connectors, which way should we
[Re: Quicktree]
#922
07/30/03 10:12 PM
07/30/03 10:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,155
Tucson, Arizona
clonestocker
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,155
Tucson, Arizona
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Zippy, I took 2x3 but also opened the front of the rear frame rails and stuffed the 2x3 about 12inches into them. But first you take a hole saw and cut holes on the inside and outside of the frame rails. You want to stagger them. you have to take clamps and pull the frame rail against the tubing but then you can also weld the frame rail connectors to the sides of the rear frame rails. Very stout setup. But you have to bring the 2x3 through the floor pan at some point. You then have a place to weld the main hoop kickers on to. have fun matt s
[img] [/img]
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Re: Subframe connectors, which way should we
[Re: clonestocker]
#923
07/30/03 10:27 PM
07/30/03 10:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,480
USA
Molloy
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,480
USA
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Quote:
Zippy, I took 2x3 but also opened the front of the rear frame rails and stuffed the 2x3 about 12inches into them. But first you take a hole saw and cut holes on the inside and outside of the frame rails. You want to stagger them. you have to take clamps and pull the frame rail against the tubing but then you can also weld the frame rail connectors to the sides of the rear frame rails. Very stout setup. But you have to bring the 2x3 through the floor pan at some point. You then have a place to weld the main hoop kickers on to. have fun matt s
Crap. I wish I hadn't opened this thread. Now I'm thinking about chucking the $15 2x2" connectors I have and going with 2x3". I have the floors cut and the connectors fitted, but they're not welded yet.
One thing I have to say is that it's a LOT easier to run the stock fuel/brake lines with the 2x2 connectors. You will have to notch the holes to fit the lines around the 2x3 connectors.
Ditto on cutting the rear sub frame end, and sliding the tubing into the rear subframe.
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Re: Subframe connectors, which way should we
[Re: 3404]
#925
07/31/03 10:10 AM
07/31/03 10:10 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Hey Zip- Here's mine. No floor cutting. They're made of 2x3 square tubing. They're made of two sections as the floor was in the way... Made a huge difference in strength!  
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Re: Subframe connectors, which way should we
#926
07/31/03 10:24 AM
07/31/03 10:24 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,215
Cornfield. IN
Clair
Pot Stirrer #4
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Pot Stirrer #4
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,215
Cornfield. IN
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Re: Subframe connectors, which way shoul
#927
07/31/03 10:30 AM
07/31/03 10:30 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I plan to do connectors in the next month or so and this has been a very enlightening thread!
Can someone make sure this gets in the archives?
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Re: Subframe connectors, which way shoul
#928
07/31/03 10:21 PM
07/31/03 10:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,832
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,832
S.E. Michigan
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Yeah I agree it'd be cool to have this in the archives for future reference. Plus it'd make me feel famous  
Hit the local steel fab shop (only 5 miles away), and they said they would have 14 gauge 3x2 for me tomorrow. Only $18 for both 4' pieces
Jeez, even I can afford that!!
Hack and slash...errr I mean tasteful modification is to begin shortly, probably near the end of this weekend.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: Subframe connectors, which way shoul
[Re: ZIPPY]
#929
07/31/03 10:42 PM
07/31/03 10:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,361
Wild West
M_D
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,361
Wild West
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Zippy, here's a tip that may or may not help. If you run them through the floor, find and mark the rear and forward points. Then you can drill a small hole through the floor for reference. If you use some string stretched between the two points, you can get a pretty straight line marked out. Then you can measure over for the width to get the other line marked. Like it was mentioned above, it is much easier to weld the seam up if it is tight with as little gap as possible, so it's best (IMO) to not cut too much away the first time.
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Re: Subframe connectors, which way shoul
[Re: M_D]
#930
08/01/03 02:54 AM
08/01/03 02:54 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 477
Clarkston,MI
Todd_DesMarais
super street
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super street
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 477
Clarkston,MI
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Rich, I was thinking the same as a few others, about slipping them into the rears. But, my original idea was the same as Tim Moffet's I prefer that way as it looks the cleanest (carpet,floor pans, etc.), plus a correct weld is stronger than the two metals it adjoins. that would aleviate the concern of having a bent design. Now I just have to learn to weld correctly.  Tim, Can you snap a few more pics for us to oogle over? that's the way I was going to do them on my cuda. It's your car my friend, I just do the work. I would say to bring her over tommorow (Friday) and let's have a look-see. I'll be home most of the day, give me a ring. Todd
aduC' 47
IIeredevleB 66
383 etilletaS 66
DTC 0053 MAR 50
"ssenlli latnem a dna ,ybboh a neewteb enil enif a si ereht"
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Re: Subframe connectors, which way shoul
[Re: Todd_DesMarais]
#931
08/01/03 09:22 AM
08/01/03 09:22 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,336
Summit, NJ
whiplash
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,336
Summit, NJ
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Quote:
Tim, Can you snap a few more pics for us to oogle over? that's the way I was going to do them on my cuda.
Yes, tim PLEASE snap some more pics, specifically of the back end where you made the "bend" up to the rear framerails, that is the best idea I've seen so far for a person who does not want to hack up the floor. Did you do anything special for the e-brake? any interferences? thanks.
- 67 coronet 4dr, 383/727/GVOD, blown, EFI, daily driver
- 230/238, 114°LSA cam, 1.6 rollers, 9:1 comp, 8 psi boost
- NEW BEST ET - 12.40@110mph...
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Re: Subframe connectors, which way shoul
[Re: whiplash]
#932
08/01/03 09:49 AM
08/01/03 09:49 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,832
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,832
S.E. Michigan
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I would also like to see how the main hoop in Tim's cage is attached to the floor. There aren't any outriggers in the pic, is it welded to a plate on the floor?
I realize that's all it takes to comply w/the rules but I'd feel better with both a plate and the tube running through the outrigger, welded at all three points.
The car's a 'real' GTX, but the fender tag is long gone, the original drivetrain and most of the original parts are gone, and the thing had enough rust in it to where virtually anything I do to it is an improvement. So I really don't feel bad about cutting it, it was already cut in 100 different places before I got it anyway.
Plus the rockers are weak in the car, and with the connectors running through the floor it will help that issue a little more than if they were below the floor.
I mocked it up with a piece of wood yesterday and looks as if the connectors only need to go through the floor for a short distance in the rear footwell area, and if they're sitting flush with the bottom of the T bar crossmember they will clear the front footwell with some slight massaging of the front floorpan ribs.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: Subframe connectors, which way shoul
[Re: marvo451]
#935
08/01/03 08:35 PM
08/01/03 08:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,336
Summit, NJ
whiplash
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,336
Summit, NJ
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btt for zip - lookin' for more pics from tim (please).....
- 67 coronet 4dr, 383/727/GVOD, blown, EFI, daily driver
- 230/238, 114°LSA cam, 1.6 rollers, 9:1 comp, 8 psi boost
- NEW BEST ET - 12.40@110mph...
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Re: Subframe connectors, which way should we
#936
08/01/03 11:30 PM
08/01/03 11:30 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Obviously, the consensus here is that the 2x3 is stronger than the 2x2. I have difficulty with this. Somehow my logic (or lack there of) tells me a square is stronger than a rectangle. Can someone elaborate on this?
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Re: Subframe connectors, which way should we
#937
08/02/03 12:00 AM
08/02/03 12:00 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,336
Summit, NJ
whiplash
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,336
Summit, NJ
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I don't have my mechanics of solids book at home, but I'll try and explain just by saying it is a physical property of the size of the two structures; the 2x3 is larger than the 2x2 and given the same wall thickness and overall length, the larger structure will have the greater torsional stiffness. Next time your in Home Depot, try twisting a 2x2 or 1x1 like a torsion bar, then try it with a 2x3 or a 1x2. The larger structure should be harder to twist. Even though they are solid, the same can be applied to the hollow steel tubing. Try and do a search on the net for torsional stiffness, you mau find a page with equations for different cross sections...
- 67 coronet 4dr, 383/727/GVOD, blown, EFI, daily driver
- 230/238, 114°LSA cam, 1.6 rollers, 9:1 comp, 8 psi boost
- NEW BEST ET - 12.40@110mph...
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Re: Subframe connectors, which way should we
[Re: whiplash]
#939
08/02/03 12:26 AM
08/02/03 12:26 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
I don't have my mechanics of solids book at home, but I'll try and explain just by saying it is a physical property of the size of the two structures; the 2x3 is larger than the 2x2 and given the same wall thickness and overall length, the larger structure will have the greater torsional stiffness. Next time your in Home Depot, try twisting a 2x2 or 1x1 like a torsion bar, then try it with a 2x3 or a 1x2. The larger structure should be harder to twist. Even though they are solid, the same can be applied to the hollow steel tubing. Try and do a search on the net for torsional stiffness, you mau find a page with equations for different cross sections...
I would think a structure with one side wider than the other would be easier to twist.
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Re: Subframe connectors, which way should we
#940
08/02/03 09:28 PM
08/02/03 09:28 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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