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What motor/combo was faster and produced the most HP, The 427 Thunderbolt or a 63 Max Wedge Dodge or Plymouth?

Here's a look at the Thunderbolt specs:

http://musclecars.howstuffworks.com/classic-muscle-cars/1964-ford-thunderbolt.htm

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The 1964 427 Ford Fairlane Thunderbolts where way faster than the 1963 425 HP Max Wedge cars, they where also faster than the 1964 425 HP M.W. cars The 1964 M.W motors had better flowing heads, bigger carbs, bigger lift and duration cams and better intake than the 1963 M.W motors had That is why Mopar ended up designing and making the 426 race Hemi so they could keep up with the dual quad, 427 high Risor Thunderbolts, once they found out that the Ford Thundebolts would outrun the factory M.W. race cars

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Check out the A/S final at Indy 2010 on you tube-----The 66 Ply is a Hemi---------now you tell me.....

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Check out the A/S final at Indy 2010 on you tube-----The 66 Ply is a Hemi---------now you tell me.....

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The 66 Plymouth in that race comes in approx 400lbs heavier than the Thunderbolt..Street Hemi with less compression and less cam. Two very nice cars and a great Race!

I always thought the 68 Hemi Darts and Cudas were a better comparison to the Thunderbolt..more apples to apples!

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What motor/combo was faster and produced the most HP, The 427 Thunderbolt or a 63 Max Wedge Dodge or Plymouth?

Here's a look at the Thunderbolt specs:

http://musclecars.howstuffworks.com/classic-muscle-cars/1964-ford-thunderbolt.htm

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The 1964 427 Ford Fairlane Thunderbolts where way faster than the 1963 425 HP Max Wedge cars, they where also faster than the 1964 425 HP M.W. cars The 1964 M.W motors had better flowing heads, bigger carbs, bigger lift and duration cams and better intake than the 1963 M.W motors had That is why Mopar ended up designing and making the 426 race Hemi so they could keep up with the dual quad, 427 high Risor Thunderbolts, once they found out that the Ford Thundebolts would outrun the factory M.W. race cars

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Ford had an edge till Ma Mopar put her cars on "diet programs" and enforced "deep breathing" exercises.
Some of those 64' M-W's wound up at the finish line BEFORE those T-Bolts! Chrysler was ahead of most others with their
chassis/drivetrain technology. And where they were lacking in
some topend power, they had MORE THAN ENOUGH down low and midrange to get off the line first and hold it through the quarter!! The FORD 427 had a stronger edge in NASCAR, that is what brought the HEMI BACK to the performance table. NHRA Racing reaped the benefits also, since it was found to be just as STRONG or EVEN STRONGER than the Ford 427 in quarter-mile racing!!

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The 66 Plymouth in that race comes in approx 400lbs heavier than the Thunderbolt..Street Hemi with less compression and less cam. Two very nice cars and a great Race!

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Not that it would have made much difference but isn't it interesting that an A Stock 1966 Hemi Belvedere is allowed to run the 67 RO style hood scoop when no factory 66 Hemi Plymouth came with (any type) of hood scoop.

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...I knew this pic would come in handy someday.

...see attachment.

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very cool! Guess that proves the Thunderbolts could be beat...and often were! The Honker was my favorte car, next to the Ramchargers when i was growing up.

I think the 426 hemi may have been more of an answer to the Ford Cammer/Hemi than to the BB in the Fairlane.

Notice it does say A/FX on Buds window, tho.

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Just check and see how much faster the Max Wedges were at the 64 Winternats. Heck the Max Wedge was the fastest SS cars there and the Hemi had not even hit the track yet. Butch Leal won the stick class in his Thunderbolt at 12.10 and the auto Max Wedge cars ran like 11.70's and won the auto class of course. I think it was Indy in 64 that the old Ramcharger 63 car ran 11.30's and outran everything there. Closes Thuderbolt was around 11.70 I believe. Ron

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100% with ya!!
Well 383 man, you ARE running the PROOF of Max-Wedge Performance!! History will repeat itself again, when you max (cube) the Max-Wedge combo. Great pix, man!! Keepin' em' (competition) guessing at the tree!!

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That car has been around a long time, I remember seeing him race at Pomona years ago in B/S. I'll bet that he has changed it from a 1966 Street Hemi(small carbs0 to a 1967 RO race hemi(w/big carbs) car to run in A/S or AA/S If I was going to run a hemi in NHRA Stock it would not be one of those cars, it would be a 1964 410HP race Hemi in a Plymouth Savoy

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G-O-O-D Choice, Cab!! Lighter weight, I
would think on the Savoy! However, my choice would be the M-W, always stayed true to ram induction/crossrams on a wedge motor . Nothing wrong at all with the "ELEPHANT" motor, I just prefer them in 67'-68' B-bodies.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsis4EQeDCE
That was a good race...that start gave me goosebumps

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Great matchup!! If the Plymouth had not hung such a long, high wheelie, it would have WON!
Caught too much air!!

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The 66 Plymouth in that race comes in approx 400lbs heavier than the Thunderbolt..Street Hemi with less compression and less cam. Two very nice cars and a great Race!

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Not that it would have made much difference but isn't it interesting that an A Stock 1966 Hemi Belvedere is allowed to run the 67 RO style hood scoop when no factory 66 Hemi Plymouth came with (any type) of hood scoop.



They change out the tail lights and the grill to 67' peices. So they claim them as 67' cars instead of 66's.

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Just check and see how much faster the Max Wedges were at the 64 Winternats. Heck the Max Wedge was the fastest SS cars there and the Hemi had not even hit the track yet. Butch Leal won the stick class in his Thunderbolt at 12.10 and the auto Max Wedge cars ran like 11.70's and won the auto class of course. I think it was Indy in 64 that the old Ramcharger 63 car ran 11.30's and outran everything there. Closes Thuderbolt was around 11.70 I believe. Ron

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Ron, I think your wrong on the Hemi cars at Pomona in 1964, I'm sure they where there, maybe not allowed in SS/AA or SS/A due to not being in production at the beginning of the model year in Sept 1963 They may have been the the first production AFX cars Maybe I'm wrong

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but there was this one Poncho that was very impressive! Don't think it was Arnie Beswick but another gent from southern Ohio.

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Just check and see how much faster the Max Wedges were at the 64 Winternats. Heck the Max Wedge was the fastest SS cars there and the Hemi had not even hit the track yet. Butch Leal won the stick class in his Thunderbolt at 12.10 and the auto Max Wedge cars ran like 11.70's and won the auto class of course. I think it was Indy in 64 that the old Ramcharger 63 car ran 11.30's and outran everything there. Closes Thuderbolt was around 11.70 I believe. Ron

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Ron, I think your wrong on the Hemi cars at Pomona in 1964, I'm sure they where there, maybe not allowed in SS/AA or SS/A due to not being in production at the beginning of the model year in Sept 1963 They may have been the the first production AFX cars Maybe I'm wrong

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From everything I've seen on the T-bolts, the mods required to get the big motor in that engine compartment were extensive!

10 lbs. of Sh** in a 5 lbs. bag whereas the maxie had plenty of room even with the huge exhaust manifolds they had!

Lots more B-body NSS Maxie repli-cars running around than there are Ford T-bolts. Mainly because of the simplicity and interchangeability of BB's that Mopar designed in. Ford always over-complicated things IMO.

Multiple motors with the same displacement (or close) yet nothing interchanges.

Yeah, I got off track but I don't care which was faster.

Give me a simple, proven combo that's not a complicated nightmare and I'll run that combo all day! ..and win with it!

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BUT The FORD Y block, FE and Lima Series motors were a slightly confusing mix of part swapping from the factory. They (FORD) often played around with piston deck heights, rod lengths, bore sizes etc. to form it's vast amount
of engine sizes. Just the basic 6-8 types of heads
were used around the many engine packages. They too, were firm believers in multiple carburetion
and mid to upper range power in their performance motors (pre-Cobra Jet motors). Funny thing though,
there is quite a bit of interchangeability within
their big blocks!! Back to the topic, I STICK with MOPAR
engines, I love the power they all produce!!

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Just check and see how much faster the Max Wedges were at the 64 Winternats. Heck the Max Wedge was the fastest SS cars there and the Hemi had not even hit the track yet. Butch Leal won the stick class in his Thunderbolt at 12.10 and the auto Max Wedge cars ran like 11.70's and won the auto class of course. I think it was Indy in 64 that the old Ramcharger 63 car ran 11.30's and outran everything there. Closes Thuderbolt was around 11.70 I believe. Ron

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Ron, I think your wrong on the Hemi cars at Pomona in 1964, I'm sure they where there, maybe not allowed in SS/AA or SS/A due to not being in production at the beginning of the model year in Sept 1963 They may have been the the first production AFX cars Maybe I'm wrong

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I have read that they were not happy with the Hemi at first and decided to get it running better before it made its track apearence. Thats why I have heard it was only Max Wedge cars at the 64 Winter Nats. I believe it talks about it in the new Ramcharger book also that they changed cams in the Hemi to get it running better. They said at first they were no faster then the Max Wedge cars. Ron

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I believe that it was a two-fold issue. The Mopar engineers found out how STRONG the HEMI was and
enhanced, (redesigned the heads/camshaft packages) it's BREATHING potential, and the Max-Wedges at that time were MUCH MORE tractable off the line especially with the proven 727 trans (just about equal with the A833 stick setup) in 60 ft/quarter-mile times. So in this transitional era, Mopar was STILL ing the competition!! Everyone else was chasing their tire smoke!!

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Ron, what I remember(limited) was the Hemi cars spun the snot out of the tires, worse than the M.W. cars did back then I was 19 then and the information disemination was nowhere like it is today I did attend several(5 or 6) drag races at Fontana drag city that summer, lots of Max wedge Dodges and Plymouths of all three years, even saw the Flying Dutchmen, Brutus and one of Mickey Thompson early funny cars there Hayden Profitt was big on the west coast back then, he had multiple cars, all M.W. Plymouths 4 speeds if I'm remembering correctly Time marches on

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That may be very true as it says in the new Ramcharger book that the Max Wedge was aproacing 500 hp and the first Hemi's hit 550 with ease but were no faster on the track. Tire spin makes much sense. Course we dont think about tire spin that much now a days with the tires out now. Ron

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsis4EQeDCE
That was a good race...that start gave me goosebumps

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I saw that race live, and had goosebumps too!

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Ron, what I remember(limited) was the Hemi cars spun the snot out of the tires, worse than the M.W. cars did back then I was 19 then and the information disemination was nowhere like it is today I did attend several(5 or 6) drag races at Fontana drag city that summer, lots of Max wedge Dodges and Plymouths of all three years, even saw the Flying Dutchmen, Brutus and one of Mickey Thompson early funny cars there Hayden Profitt was big on the west coast back then, he had multiple cars, all M.W. Plymouths 4 speeds if I'm remembering correctly Time marches on

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That may be very true as it says in the new Ramcharger book that the Max Wedge was aproacing 500 hp and the first Hemi's hit 550 with ease but were no faster on the track. Tire spin makes much sense. Course we dont think about tire spin that much now a days with the tires out now. Ron

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. The new found power of the HEMI engine
overwhelming the tires of yesteryear is a distant
memory now that there are STICKIER compound tires nowadays. The 60ft times were slower back then with the HEMI, than the M-W, due to massive torque (at a slightly higher launch rpm). The M-W's had their problems also, but
there was more development time on those (M-W) combos and they were pretty much "dialed-in" by the time the HEMI's came to the track!! The HEMI's
had the power, but at the time, a BIT too much to put down to the ground. As the tach needle swung to the right, the torque/hp increased in a HEMI.

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Ron, what I remember(limited) was the Hemi cars spun the snot out of the tires, worse than the M.W. cars did back then I was 19 then and the information disemination was nowhere like it is today I did attend several(5 or 6) drag races at Fontana drag city that summer, lots of Max wedge Dodges and Plymouths of all three years, even saw the Flying Dutchmen, Brutus and one of Mickey Thompson early funny cars there Hayden Profitt was big on the west coast back then, he had multiple cars, all M.W. Plymouths 4 speeds if I'm remembering correctly Time marches on

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