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Re: Fake fender tags [Re: 68X426] #889384
12/30/10 02:33 AM
12/30/10 02:33 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
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ECS Offline
David Walden
ECS  Offline
David Walden
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
Quote:

Quote:

So I did a little digging....revealed some, um, interesting hits though, I'll leave it at that.




Disclosure: I don't know Barry. I know nobody in this fight.

Barry, man, that is one cheap shot.





We STILL have not heard an answer to the main question. When Galen and Barry ask for documentation, by whose authority are they requesting it and what do they do with it? Let me go first by saying that ALL documentation that we request is mandated from the Manufacturers and reported to them on a Quarterly basis. We also give all VIN data to Ivan Blackman (Director of the NICB) to include in their National archives and database. We also carry a $2 million liability Insurance policy with the the Auto Manufacturers listed as Co-riders, to protect the Industry against Fraud, Scams, etc.... Keep in mind that ALL information we collect is kept private! We never relinquish the owner's personal data unless there would be an internal audit or criminal investigation. To date, neither scenario has taken place!

I sure wish one of the "other guys" would come here to disclose by whose authority they are directed to collect AND MARKET everyone's personal Automobile data! Again, who mandates your rules for requesting and collecting "personal" vehicle information?

Re: Fake fender tags [Re: ECS] #889385
12/30/10 02:35 AM
12/30/10 02:35 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,247
Alabama
BigMoneyLewis Offline
master
BigMoneyLewis  Offline
master

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,247
Alabama
And here is what I said back in April about reproduction broadcast sheets..

"If someone does actually step up and start producing reproduction broadcast sheets , they will be at the top of the list , when it comes to shady characters .
Fabricated documentation is a big negative for everyone in this hobby. Their had been phoney
fender tags, window stickers , (under the table) dash VINS, Re-stamped blocks , etc. for years.
All the above have hurt this hobby . Countless buyers have been stung buying fake cars.
You either have your docs, or you don't.
If you don't, that's too damn bad .
Pulling documents out of thin air should not be an option.
If the reproduction sheets are not labled as reproductions, then , plain and simple, it's a matter of deception .
Intentions may be good, but those in favor of fabricated sheets are not thinking this thing through very well . Pretty much , all cars with legit documents will now be in question.
How does the average (or even above average) guy tell the real cars (and buildsheets)from the fakes ? Just like repro fender tags, dash VINs ,
window stickers, etc. these repro sheets WILL fall into the wrong hands, and WILL be used for financial gain by some . People used to be able to "trust" buildsheets . Now, all that trust will be taken away , just because some shi%a$$ wanted to make a little extra money when he decides to sell his car . Everybody knows they can "possibly" pull 10-15% more for a car with a sheet .So, now , everybody is going to have a sheet . It won't be long untill somebody parades
an FJ6 D21 AAR around with sheet , only to find out that the REAL sheet to that car was found in another AAR and is actually an FK5 D32 car .
We'll catch alot of these fakes, we may not catch them all , but you can't fool everybody , all the time."

Greg


gregward@mchsi.com phone 256-852-0955
Re: Fake fender tags [Re: BigMoneyLewis] #889386
12/30/10 02:38 AM
12/30/10 02:38 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,247
Alabama
BigMoneyLewis Offline
master
BigMoneyLewis  Offline
master

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,247
Alabama
So Dave has so much money that he can put 22k down the toilet just to "pull a prank" on Galen Govier ?

Greg


gregward@mchsi.com phone 256-852-0955
Re: Fake fender tags [Re: BigMoneyLewis] #889387
12/30/10 02:48 AM
12/30/10 02:48 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
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ECS Offline
David Walden
ECS  Offline
David Walden
E

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
The next thing that will happen is some people will start accusing the United States Treasury of counterfeiting and making Money! How DARE those bunch of Crooks!!!

For whatever reason, some of you just can't get your minds around the fact that we are a licensed company that has been given proper approval to manufacture the products that we offer. It is the CROOKS who are counterfeiting and doing this garbage behind the scenes. We are a LEGAL extension of the Manufacturers....plain and simple!

Re: Fake fender tags [Re: BigMoneyLewis] #889388
12/30/10 02:49 AM
12/30/10 02:49 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
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ECS Offline
David Walden
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David Walden
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
Quote:

So Dave has so much money that he can put 22k down the toilet just to "pull a prank" on Galen Govier ?




Sorry!

Re: Fake fender tags [Re: 70Runnerdude] #889389
12/30/10 02:50 AM
12/30/10 02:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,648
Hamtramck, PA
Alaskan_TA Offline
Fluffy Balladeer
Alaskan_TA  Offline
Fluffy Balladeer

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,648
Hamtramck, PA
To Mr. Pealer;

I know that I had a reason for blocking your email address & posts from view here, but I can not find it & do not remember the exact reason.

So, I'll consider that a mistake on my part, learn from it & move on.

Is it possible that I had you confused with someone else with the same name? Maybe.

So, just like I do with anyone, email me with proof of legal ownership of the car & proof the car does in fact exist & I will post an image of what I have for it here. It is not much, but it is part of the cars history regardless.

A color scan of the title in your name will do for proof of ownership.

Photos of the car itself, the body numbers & dash VIN should prove the car still exists.

If you prefer, you can post the images here, up to you.

For everyone else, dang, be careful what you put on the internet.

Re: Fake fender tags [Re: Alaskan_TA] #889390
12/30/10 02:57 AM
12/30/10 02:57 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
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ECS Offline
David Walden
ECS  Offline
David Walden
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
Quote:

...email me with proof of legal ownership of the car & proof the car does in fact exist




Good Barry....you are still here. Could you please tell the audience who has mandated/commissioned you to request the information you ask for? Please assure your followers that you have not positioned yourself above the rest of the Hobby and simply commissioned yourself to do the things you do.

Re: Fake fender tags [Re: ECS] #889391
12/30/10 03:14 AM
12/30/10 03:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,648
Hamtramck, PA
Alaskan_TA Offline
Fluffy Balladeer
Alaskan_TA  Offline
Fluffy Balladeer

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,648
Hamtramck, PA
Quote:

We STILL have not heard an answer to the main question. When Galen and Barry ask for documentation, by whose authority are they requesting it and what do they do with it? b]




Dave,
I can not speak for Galen anymore than I could speak for you. But as for me.....

If I have an original item, I request proof of legal ownership if an owner wants to claim it. If the item is in my control, whose authority would I need but mine?

Case in point.

80 some broadcast sheets sold on Ebay as a collection years ago. I was the high bidder. One of them was for a JS27V0B shaker hood car. Several people contacted me & tried to claim it the first week it was posted in the found section of HH.

I asked all of them for proof of ownership & did not hear from any of them again.

I still have it.

I also know that the NICB on occasion checks the VIN data on the site. If they have a question, they email. Not often, but it it has happened.

They have also blocked VINs I have reported from ever being registered again that I have reported from illegal sales.

I do not sell, or manufature anything that you do. I work with some of the same agencies you do, just at a different level. I do not see that you & I are in any competion at all?

Sure, I can occasionally spot one of your products as not being an original. You do great work. At the same time, if a seller is trying to pass that item off as original & a potential buyer asks me about it, I tell them.

Honest buyers deserve honest sellers. Not all sellers represent items of the car for sale in an honest manner. It has no reflection on your work or it's quality.

I try to protect buyers from sellers that do not tell the whole story.

Thanks for not marketing the broadcast sheets! Once again, I do appreciate that.

Barry

Re: Fake fender tags [Re: ECS] #889392
12/30/10 03:23 AM
12/30/10 03:23 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 249
Sonora, CA
68X426 Offline
enthusiast
68X426  Offline
enthusiast

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Posts: 249
Sonora, CA
Disclosure: I don't know Dave Walden (ECS). I don't know Barry. I don't follow anyone.

OK, Dave at ECS, you win. I don't know what you won, but you are confirmed rich and righteous. You win.

Maybe it's your turn to take a deep breath and let it go. You hate Barry. We get it .

He will still roam the earth and you will still hate him. You proved your point. He will never agree with your business conduct and you will never agree with his activities. We get it.

Maybe you lighten up and move on with your life also.


The 12 Scariest Words in the English Language: We are here from the Government and we want to help you. 1968 Plymouth Road Runner, Hemi and much more 1968 Dodge Charger, 318 and not much else 1958 Dodge Pick Up, 383 and loud 1966 Dodge Van, Slant 6 and cool
Re: Fake fender tags [Re: 68X426] #889393
12/30/10 03:28 AM
12/30/10 03:28 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 249
Sonora, CA
68X426 Offline
enthusiast
68X426  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 249
Sonora, CA
Well now I have to add that Barry does compliment you on your conduct and work. I was typing when his post went in ahead of mine.

Hurrah!! Peace on Earth.


The 12 Scariest Words in the English Language: We are here from the Government and we want to help you. 1968 Plymouth Road Runner, Hemi and much more 1968 Dodge Charger, 318 and not much else 1958 Dodge Pick Up, 383 and loud 1966 Dodge Van, Slant 6 and cool
Re: Fake fender tags [Re: 68X426] #889394
12/30/10 03:33 AM
12/30/10 03:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,648
Hamtramck, PA
Alaskan_TA Offline
Fluffy Balladeer
Alaskan_TA  Offline
Fluffy Balladeer

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,648
Hamtramck, PA
Quote:

Good Barry....you are still here. Could you please tell the audience who has mandated/commissioned you to request the information you ask for? Please assure your followers that you have not positioned yourself above the rest of the Hobby and simply commissioned yourself to do the things you do.




I operate under no mandate, commission, decree or divine appointment.

I have not been voted into office by any public election.

I run a lost & found. Is anything required to do that?


If I found your wallet on the street, would you expect me to give it to anyone without making sure the photo ID inside it matched their face?

If I leave my jacket at a restaurant, do I need to check their lost & found license when I go back to look for it?

Re: Fake fender tags [Re: Alaskan_TA] #889395
12/30/10 03:37 AM
12/30/10 03:37 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,115
A Red State
SNK-EYZ Offline
I Live Here
SNK-EYZ  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,115
A Red State
Quote:

To Mr. Pealer;

I know that I had a reason for blocking your email address & posts from view here, but I can not find it & do not remember the exact reason.

So, I'll consider that a mistake on my part, learn from it & move on.

Is it possible that I had you confused with someone else with the same name? Maybe.

So, just like I do with anyone, email me with proof of legal ownership of the car & proof the car does in fact exist & I will post an image of what I have for it here. It is not much, but it is part of the cars history regardless.

A color scan of the title in your name will do for proof of ownership.

Photos of the car itself, the body numbers & dash VIN should prove the car still exists.

If you prefer, you can post the images here, up to you.

For everyone else, dang, be careful what you put on the internet.




Just curious, if he proves ownership of the car does he get the original build sheet if you have it or an image/copy of it?


Kayse can't keep up at all now. lol
Re: Fake fender tags [Re: SNK-EYZ] #889396
12/30/10 03:50 AM
12/30/10 03:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,648
Hamtramck, PA
Alaskan_TA Offline
Fluffy Balladeer
Alaskan_TA  Offline
Fluffy Balladeer

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Posts: 29,648
Hamtramck, PA
I do not have either one of those.

I have an inventory page from the dealership it sold from.

Will he get the original page if he comes through with what I asked for?

That answer is no.

Why not?

It is part of a hand written list, it contains information for other cars in addition to the one he emailed about. So, he will get a scan of the data specific to the car in question.

I would have to send him the whole page to give him the original, & that would not be fair to the other car's owners.

Like I mentioned, it is not much.

Re: Fake fender tags [Re: Alaskan_TA] #889397
12/30/10 03:56 AM
12/30/10 03:56 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 351
Goat Rodeo
drago Offline
enthusiast
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Posts: 351
Goat Rodeo
This same "withholding information" scenario happened in Australian mopar circles with the Aussie Charger R/T's.
A half dozen guys had the paperwork on all the R/T's produced.
People had to beg and plead to get info on their cars. That all came to a halt when the paperwork was finally published on the internet.
Crazy thing was those half dozen guys holding the info were the main ones rebodying cars and stamping engine blocks. They made out like bandits with cars pulling up to $150k Au.
Just give the guy his damn dealership info. It's not hard.

Re: Fake fender tags [Re: Alaskan_TA] #889398
12/30/10 04:03 AM
12/30/10 04:03 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
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ECS Offline
David Walden
ECS  Offline
David Walden
E

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
Quote:

I operate under no mandate, commission,.....
I run a lost & found. Is anything required to do that?






Well at least the first part of your post is true. That must be quite the elaborate "lost in found" you operate. I can't remember losing something and then being chastised for the way I parted my hair, what I was wearing or who I was with when I went to claim my property! Have you not been reading what some are saying in this thread? You hold people hostage, ridicule and even ignore them if they don't play the "lost and found" game the way you choose! That is the problem when a "self appointed" person decides to set up camp and run their "Registry." They become like Hitler or Mussolini. They start out with all the right intentions and then their notoriety goes to their head. They become Dictators and all their "sheep" need to comply with their self serving rules "or else"! Before you know it they have morphed into something that doesn't even resemble what they originally started out as.

You "Good Guys" keep lying to yourself about all the wonderful things that you claim to do for the Hobby! If I had a Dollar (remember that one?) for every person that told me a horror story about the way you "verifiers" had exploited and mistreated them, I could have retired after the first year I went into this Business. Keep up the good work!

Re: Fake fender tags [Re: ECS] #889399
12/30/10 04:07 AM
12/30/10 04:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,648
Hamtramck, PA
Alaskan_TA Offline
Fluffy Balladeer
Alaskan_TA  Offline
Fluffy Balladeer

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,648
Hamtramck, PA
Good night to all.

Re: Fake fender tags [Re: ECS] #889400
12/30/10 04:08 AM
12/30/10 04:08 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,999
MO/near Independence& Liberty ...
notnxs383 Offline
top fuel
notnxs383  Offline
top fuel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,999
MO/near Independence& Liberty ...
Why don't you give it a rest? This is what, about your 40th post with the same crap out of your pie-hole.

Class act Barry. You certainly didn't need to answer to the one person that is losing sleep over your "authority" as evidenced in nearly every post he makes. He likes to accuse of your actions being done for profit. A guy with more money than sense could not possibly understand how you could have the devotion to the hobby you do. Thankfully, I will never have a need for any of his products


It don't mean nothing..the words that you say! 65 & 66 Dart, 67 notch, 90 RamVan, 91 Rollback 5.9 '70 SE Challenger 383L matchin' ... but another man never would have let her go.. I stashed the bill in my shirt.
Re: Fake fender tags [Re: drago] #889401
12/30/10 04:09 AM
12/30/10 04:09 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 104,346
Garden Grove, CA
OzHemi Offline
Penguin-hating Ginger
OzHemi  Offline
Penguin-hating Ginger

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Posts: 104,346
Garden Grove, CA
Quote:

This same "withholding information" scenario happened in Australian mopar circles with the Aussie Charger R/T's.
A half dozen guys had the paperwork on all the R/T's produced.
People had to beg and plead to get info on their cars. That all came to a halt when the paperwork was finally published on the internet.
Crazy thing was those half dozen guys holding the info were the main ones rebodying cars and stamping engine blocks. They made out like bandits with cars pulling up to $150k Au.
Just give the guy his damn dealership info. It's not hard.




The R/T information coming out on the internet did not stop rebodys being done at all. The huge increase in price of the cars into the 6 figure range fueled it I am sure...even though it happened back when the cars were worth far far less as well...just like it did with Phase II and III Falcons and Bathurst Monaros.

Greed fuels that, be the information like with the Chargers being harder to come by or not, there still was and would continue to be shady stuff going on. The fact a lot more people can easily find out the history of any VIN might make it easier to clone one nearly you'd think... (If one had an E49 compliance tag for example...just look up what the specs on the car were and built one to match )

Re: Fake fender tags [Re: ECS] #889402
12/30/10 04:09 AM
12/30/10 04:09 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,662
Jefferson State
S
srt Offline
ESYC
srt  Offline
ESYC
S

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Posts: 15,662
Jefferson State
Dave, Thank you for explaining, I understand your position.
From the post of the blank sheet pic and the refrence to working with industry groups I thought there may be potential for problems.

Re: Fake fender tags [Re: Alaskan_TA] #889403
12/30/10 04:23 AM
12/30/10 04:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,115
A Red State
SNK-EYZ Offline
I Live Here
SNK-EYZ  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,115
A Red State
Quote:

I do not have either one of those.

I have an inventory page from the dealership it sold from.

Will he get the original page if he comes through with what I asked for?

That answer is no.

Why not?

It is part of a hand written list, it contains information for other cars in addition to the one he emailed about. So, he will get a scan of the data specific to the car in question.

I would have to send him the whole page to give him the original, & that would not be fair to the other car's owners.

Like I mentioned, it is not much.




IMO, an actual original build sheet would be the only original copy of paperwork that should be given to the car owner.

Copies of info that you got from Chrysler should be more than adequate for info that wasn't available to the original "new" owner.
I completely understand not giving out the originals to the public in that case.
The information "should" be made available to the current and future owners of the car.

It's entirely possible that the current owner will sell the car in the future and the paperwork may not go with the car. (Happens all the time).

Like I said before, I was just curious.


Kayse can't keep up at all now. lol
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