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Problems with gas.......Anyone??? #88655
07/14/08 08:07 PM
07/14/08 08:07 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,122
Hunt Valley, Maryland
1fastrunner Offline OP
top fuel
1fastrunner  Offline OP
top fuel

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,122
Hunt Valley, Maryland
Just wondering if anyone was having problems with the 10% ethanol in gas? If so, What are you doing to minimize the problems it may be causing with performance?
Jim

Re: Problems with gas.......Anyone??? [Re: 1fastrunner] #88656
07/14/08 08:19 PM
07/14/08 08:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 936
own private Idaho
N
ngpSatellite Offline
super stock
ngpSatellite  Offline
super stock
N

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 936
own private Idaho
what I heard was that the blend is not good at all for a gas engine...for starter's the ethanol eats up the gakets and engine seals...

Re: Problems with gas.......Anyone??? [Re: 1fastrunner] #88657
07/14/08 08:22 PM
07/14/08 08:22 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,808
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda Offline
Too Many Posts
Pacnorthcuda  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,808
Kirkland, Washington
com'on guys! 10% ethanol mix(gasohol) had been around for how long? 10 years? More like 20? In small concentrations is does not pose a problem, SLIGHT power loss, removes moisture from our fuel (cuz alcohol and water mix)....

Is this really new in your area????

Re: Problems with gas.......Anyone??? [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #88658
07/14/08 08:25 PM
07/14/08 08:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,728
places
7
79powerwagon Offline
Too Many Posts
79powerwagon  Offline
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7

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,728
places
The only affect I seem to encounter is the needle seat in my Eddy/Carter carbs. Eddy used to have something on their web site about it. Easy fix, and cheap too. I need to replace them every few years...

otherwise, it's not been a problem.

Re: Problems with gas.......Anyone??? [Re: 1fastrunner] #88659
07/14/08 08:28 PM
07/14/08 08:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,501
Gainesville,FL
G
goldmember Offline
master
goldmember  Offline
master
G

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,501
Gainesville,FL
Yes the quality of pump gas has been a problem for years and isn't getting better. Fuel injected late models just handle it better than a carb.

Re: Problems with gas.......Anyone??? [Re: goldmember] #88660
07/14/08 08:46 PM
07/14/08 08:46 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 48
newmarket, new hampshire
warlock Offline
member
warlock  Offline
member

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 48
newmarket, new hampshire
I work at New England Dragway gas shack and the unleaded race fuel has ethenol in it. Has been for a number of years. Non of the racers have ever complained about it, and only a very few even noticed so don't really know if there is a "fix" for any probs. We run it in our race car and have not noticed much of a decrease in power, or rubber deterioration. Ethenol in unleaded (or white gas as we used to call it) has been around for maybe 20 or 30 years. Always has been a controversy to some, especially in the early years (70's gas crisis) because they tried to make the blend too heavy.

PS. Methanol (alcohol) does eat up rubber gaskets and rings.

Last edited by warlock; 07/14/08 08:49 PM.
Re: Problems with gas.......Anyone??? [Re: 1fastrunner] #88661
07/14/08 09:01 PM
07/14/08 09:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,160
L.I. N.Y. Hemi Street
HemiGreg Offline
master
HemiGreg  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,160
L.I. N.Y. Hemi Street
New fuel to fix the crap comming out of the pump




Given facts :
1.0 horsepower (hp) = 550 foot-pounds per second = 2545 Btu per hour = 745.7 watts = 0.746 kW

Kerosene (No. 1 Fuel oil) 135,000 BTU per gallon

gasoline 92 octane 125,ooo Btu per gallon

ethanol 84,400 BTU per gallonGal.

gasohol
(10% ethanol, 90% gasoline) 120,900 Btu per Gal.


So: when we run todays std mix of summer Gasoline/Gasohol we get less Btus per gallon than plain Gas

125,000 Btu - 120,900 = 4100 less or 4100 / 2545 = 1.611 hp/gal

1 gallon = 128 Oz so we add 10% Kerosene (12.8 OZ.) to the present Gasohol mix to increase the Btu content say 10% of 135000 = 13,500 btus for the 13 oz addition.

the remaining 115 oz of Gasohol will produce 90% of its 120,900 btu, = .90 x 120,900 or 108,810 btus

therefore 13,500 + 108,810 = 122,310 mixed btu.

you can add more kero to get back to the old gasolinespower potential.

H.P. potential theory = 122,310 / 2545 = 48.04 H.P per gallon burned.

111 Oz of typical pump Gas

13 OZ #1 Kerosene

4 Oz Airomatic Hydrocarbon (Acetone or Xylene,or Tolune or Benzene) Octane and btu content exceeding gas,kero,alch even race gas- so its all a plus here to err on the more Ozs side.

A much more power producing mixture and also more stable in the tank. you need a few Oz. of Acetone or xylene to promote the mixing by lowering surface tension generally speaking. Plus the Kerosene has lubricating propeties.



and yes ive done the octane and heat of vaporization and dessity mix for 14;1 optimization.

Re: Problems with gas.......Anyone??? [Re: HemiGreg] #88662
07/14/08 09:04 PM
07/14/08 09:04 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,808
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda Offline
Too Many Posts
Pacnorthcuda  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,808
Kirkland, Washington
damn, are you also a bartender? Pour me a double!

Re: Problems with gas.......Anyone??? [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #88663
07/14/08 09:25 PM
07/14/08 09:25 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 162
Centerville, MN
schwep Offline
member
schwep  Offline
member

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 162
Centerville, MN
We've had ethanol in our gas around here for a number of years...Biggest problem I've encountered is with my John Deere tractors (1996 & 2001 model yrs). Used to get carbon deposits that would stick the valve in the guide - then start up after sitting and...DOINK! Push rod would fall over due to stuck valve.

Fresh gas - clean filters. Didn't matter 1 hour or 1 week between starts.

1st attempt to remedy: new head, and JD update with new cam gear (eliminate nylon gear) stronger valve springs. 1st time out after 15 hrs labor and $600 in parts...DOINK! Same thing. Put back together, double check lash...DOINK, DOINK, DOINK!

Final fix: Sea Foam in oil and gas. Skip one or the other...DOINK!

Never a believer in sea foam until this happened.

Re: Problems with gas.......Anyone??? [Re: schwep] #88664
07/14/08 10:08 PM
07/14/08 10:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
M
MoparforLife Offline
Too Many Posts
MoparforLife  Offline
Too Many Posts
M

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
Gasohol came into being in the late 70's early 80's. Was a pain in the A$$. We had to clean an awful lot of carburators and replace a lot of fuel filters and have a lot of tanks flushed because the alcohol mix tended to loosen all the accumulated crud and corrosion in the fuel system. In warm weather in mechanical fuel pump carburated vehicles there was a tendency for carburator perculation.

Re: Problems with gas.......Anyone??? [Re: MoparforLife] #88665
07/14/08 10:23 PM
07/14/08 10:23 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar Offline
master
451Mopar  Offline
master

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
I don't think the 10% ethenol is the problem, as noted earlier it's been in use here in Colorado for about 15 years. Most likely, it is the new botique formulations the EPA is pushing on us that vary by differnt areas of the country.

Most of these vaporize at lower temperatures which is not a big deal if you have a fuel injected car because the fuel is under 30+ PSI pressure, but with a carb, and only 5 psi pressure the older cars vaporlock and boil the fuel much easier.

Re: Problems with gas.......Anyone??? [Re: warlock] #88666
07/14/08 10:23 PM
07/14/08 10:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,666
North Dakota
6PakBee Offline
I Live Here
6PakBee  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,666
North Dakota
Quote:

...... unleaded (or white gas as we used to call it) has been around for maybe 20 or 30 years. .....




Good Lord, someone as old as I am that remembers that. My Father used to buy 'white gas' for the Coleman camp stoves and lanterns back in the 60's.


"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
Re: Problems with gas.......Anyone??? [Re: 6PakBee] #88667
07/14/08 10:48 PM
07/14/08 10:48 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
Happy Birthday RapidRobert  Offline
Circle Track

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
We've had it for 25 years. absorbs water, cleans out the system(which did cause problems) attacked old original gaskets(sometimes) only real bad was made some of my cars die repeatedly at the stoplight in the summertime.


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Problems with gas.......Anyone??? [Re: 1fastrunner] #88668
07/14/08 11:05 PM
07/14/08 11:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,144
Arkansas
340727dart Offline
master
340727dart  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,144
Arkansas
I just use Sunoco 104.
No ethanol there.


Your life is not my fault.
My life is none of your business.

Speech is free only if you agree with those in control.
Re: Problems with gas.......Anyone??? [Re: 340727dart] #88669
07/14/08 11:26 PM
07/14/08 11:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,610
Not2farfromNashville, TN
R
Rug_Trucker Offline
I Live Here
Rug_Trucker  Offline
I Live Here
R

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,610
Not2farfromNashville, TN
I ran it back in 81 in my Charger2.2. A year or 2 later Chrysler had a TSB saying bad for the Holley 2bbl, and great for causing vapor lock! That car vapor locked on any gas in 40* weather!


"The only thing to do for triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

"NUNQUAM NON PARATUS!"
Re: Problems with gas.......Anyone??? [Re: 340727dart] #88670
07/15/08 05:11 AM
07/15/08 05:11 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 48
newmarket, new hampshire
warlock Offline
member
warlock  Offline
member

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 48
newmarket, new hampshire
Quote:

I just use Sunoco 104.
No ethanol there.




The Sunoco 104 at the track has ethenol added. At least that is what it says in the finer print on the drum. The 100 also has ethenol added. They are the only two unleaded they sell.







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