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Gen 1 or 2 Viper Engine in a 1968 Dodge Dart #878767 12/13/10 03:08 AM 12/13/10 03:08 AM
Joined: Dec 2010 Posts: 12,375 SoCal MuuMuu101 OP I got lucky at Woodward!
MuuMuu101 OP I got lucky at Woodward! Joined: Dec 2010 Posts: 12,375 SoCal	Hello there, I currently have a 1968 Dodge Dart and I was thinking, instead of throwing a HEMI in there, I could probably buy a Gen 1 or 2 Viper Engine and Trans for half price of the engine itself and throw it in there. The car was an auto on the steering column so I will probably have to make a slot to fit the transmission boot and shifter. I do understand that the engine is 34.5 inches long so I'm guessing I am going to have to move the firewall back 2-4 inches (because a slant-six is around 30-31 inches long and almost hits the radiator. Speaking of radiators, I am probably going to need a custom one or an aftermarket one. Would a Be Cool Dual Fan Radiator work? Also, my dash is an issue because it has a large crack and I don't know how I'm suppose to get the gauges going to right speeds. Is there anywhere I can go to buy a custom dash and gauges that would fit? Any advice would help. Thank you

Re: Gen 1 or 2 Viper Engine in a 1968 Dodge Dart [Re: MuuMuu101] #878768 12/13/10 03:14 AM 12/13/10 03:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows? 1_WILD_RT Management Trainee
1_WILD_RT Management Trainee Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows?	Rather than move the firewall you might check with OzHemi about an Aussie Valiant front clip... They are a few inches longer than US spec darts...

Re: Gen 1 or 2 Viper Engine in a 1968 Dodge Dart [Re: MuuMuu101] #878769 12/13/10 03:20 AM 12/13/10 03:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 104,346 Garden Grove, CA OzHemi Penguin-hating Ginger
OzHemi Penguin-hating Ginger Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 104,346 Garden Grove, CA	You'll want to be a decent fabricator....aside from the engine bay length...the K frame to oil pan clearance would be an issue I'd think, along with the torsion bar crossmember will probably need some notching to clear the T56. You'll need a fuel system to support it and do a wiring loom of course to run all the injection and ignition. If you are pretty good at fabricating, wiring, etc it should not be all that huge an undertaking, but won't be a bolt in sort of deal of course. Oh, and the VF/VG front structure is about 3.5" longer than a US car, but then you would be up for replacing everything from the firewall forward on the car, not a job for a novice of course. I actually thought about the swap idea since I knew where there was a V10 and auto around from an SRT-10 truck, but got involved with my Torana project instead for now

Re: Gen 1 or 2 Viper Engine in a 1968 Dodge Dart [Re: OzHemi] #878770 12/13/10 03:23 AM 12/13/10 03:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 104,346 Garden Grove, CA OzHemi Penguin-hating Ginger
OzHemi Penguin-hating Ginger Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 104,346 Garden Grove, CA	Oh, and as for your gauges you could use the factory speedometer with the right adaptor (I am using one to run a mechanical speedo off of a T56)... Probably would be able to adapt early sending units (piggybacked) onto the late engine as well to feed the other gauges.

Re: Gen 1 or 2 Viper Engine in a 1968 Dodge Dart [Re: MuuMuu101] #878771 12/13/10 03:39 AM 12/13/10 03:39 AM
Joined: Dec 2010 Posts: 12,375 SoCal MuuMuu101 OP I got lucky at Woodward!
MuuMuu101 OP I got lucky at Woodward! Joined: Dec 2010 Posts: 12,375 SoCal	Also with regards to the suspension, someone advised me to get a Mustang II Universal Front-End Suspension, if anyone has any experience with that. I'm actually currently studying to become a Mechanical Engineer, but it's my freshman year. I want to put a Dana 60 to handle the heat as well. Metallic Blue, Black Vinyl Roof. Some 17" Foose Rims. I think it would look nice. Approximately how much do you think it would cost if I had my mechanics do the Restoration?

Re: Gen 1 or 2 Viper Engine in a 1968 Dodge Dart [Re: MuuMuu101] #878772 12/13/10 04:02 AM 12/13/10 04:02 AM
Joined: Dec 2010 Posts: 12,375 SoCal MuuMuu101 OP I got lucky at Woodward!
MuuMuu101 OP I got lucky at Woodward! Joined: Dec 2010 Posts: 12,375 SoCal	I also forgot to ask, am I suppose to get an aftermarket steering wheel (So I don't have to deal with the extra column shifter)? And also, How I am suppose to get the extra clutch pedal in?

Re: Gen 1 or 2 Viper Engine in a 1968 Dodge Dart [Re: MuuMuu101] #878773 12/13/10 05:01 AM 12/13/10 05:01 AM
Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 659 Boise Idaho B Boise Chall mopar
Boise Chall mopar B Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 659 Boise Idaho	I thought of doing this in my 72 Challenger I was going to use a truck V10 and build it until I got some prices. Then I looked at just a viper V10 and what mod parts cost for it in case I wanted to go faster. The price of parts outweighed to cool factor so I went with a 512 stroker Cheaper to build cheaper to maintain. With the lumpidy bump stick I have just the sound outweighs the v10 cool factor. It taught me that my right foot must somehow be connected to my reproductive organs because every time I push my right foot down I drop a couple potential children hahah

Re: Gen 1 or 2 Viper Engine in a 1968 Dodge Dart [Re: Boise Chall] #878774 12/13/10 06:40 AM 12/13/10 06:40 AM
Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,886 Lost and Spaced B bboogieart master
bboogieart master B Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,886 Lost and Spaced	(Quote) I'm actually currently studying to become a Mechanical Engineer I would suggest you wait till you finish school and get a high paying Engineering job. Then you will "be" an engineer and you could design the whole thing yourself, and have the bucks to build it too. Think of the bucks you could make selling kits for them. What ever you do have fun.

Re: Gen 1 or 2 Viper Engine in a 1968 Dodge Dart [Re: bboogieart] #878775 12/13/10 09:14 AM 12/13/10 09:14 AM
Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 8,526 Tenn. jrwoodjoe master
jrwoodjoe master Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 8,526 Tenn.	Quote: (Quote) I'm actually currently studying to become a Mechanical Engineer I would suggest you wait till you finish school and get a high paying Engineering job. Then you will "be" an engineer and you could design the whole thing yourself, and have the bucks to build it too. Think of the bucks you could make selling kits for them. What ever you do have fun. To the OP, I don't want to dampen you spirits or passion for Mopars....BUT...this is great advice. Like he said, if there is currently no kit available, then you could successsfully fab this and market it yourself. Not to mention, (hate to sound like a parent here but...) you could focus on school. If you want, just drive the Dart to "tool around in" while in school. Have fun and enjoy the car then it could become your project when you are done with your studies. Trying to dive into a project like you are talking about while still in school would not be good. Oh, and this is coming from a guy who did a simple big block swap in college while working 3 pt jobs to pay for it (and school) and having so little money that Raman Noodle became his main food on a daily basis. 65 Barracuda 70 Challenger

Re: Gen 1 or 2 Viper Engine in a 1968 Dodge Dart [Re: jrwoodjoe] #878776 12/13/10 01:24 PM 12/13/10 01:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 104,346 Garden Grove, CA OzHemi Penguin-hating Ginger
OzHemi Penguin-hating Ginger Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 104,346 Garden Grove, CA	If you are not sure on doing a clutch pedal swap even yet at this point, what you have in mind will be much more involved and will take a fair amount of your concentration, time and money to do properly. It would be a great swap if done right, but just make sure you are prepared to handle everything the project will throw at you is all... Just saying that as someone who has done a few large build type projects. (and just on the downhill run of finishing a large build now)

Re: Gen 1 or 2 Viper Engine in a 1968 Dodge Dart [Re: OzHemi] #878777 12/13/10 01:55 PM 12/13/10 01:55 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 21,345 Marysville, O-H-I-O 70Cuda383 Too Many Posts
70Cuda383 Too Many Posts Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 21,345 Marysville, O-H-I-O	word of advice, take some time and start to study these cars and start researching your options. the V10 is EFI only, no carb manifolds for it unless you make one, and then you have spark control to figure out too. gotta keep the EFI, which means computers, wire harnesses, etc. this will be a heavy fabrication job, lots of home made parts. time consuming or expensive. I say to research it...completely! price the parts you think you'll need, save up, then save double that for unforseen expenses. I thought I would do a "simple" big block swap to a Dakota. I knew I'd be making mounts/headers, and figured the rest would be easy. I ran into so many tiny headaches that I didn't think about or that didn't go as planned. I told the wife I could do it for 6-8K, including a build of the motor and purchasing the trans. I spent about $13K. granted, a lot of my expense was the snowball effect...if I'm rebuilding, why not spend a little more on a stroker crank. if I'm reconditioning rods, why not spend a little more on new ones that are stronger... the "stockish rebuild w/ cam" turned into a 500 hp stroker build. Photobucket sucks

Re: Gen 1 or 2 Viper Engine in a 1968 Dodge Dart [Re: 70Cuda383] #878778 12/13/10 02:58 PM 12/13/10 02:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2010 Posts: 12,375 SoCal MuuMuu101 OP I got lucky at Woodward!
MuuMuu101 OP I got lucky at Woodward! Joined: Dec 2010 Posts: 12,375 SoCal	Right, definitely. I have thought about creating custom mounts for Viper Engines to fit in a Mopar. I have done research, most of the Viper Engines I found for sale come with the wiring harnesses and ECU. The only problem I have is what I should do to the car so I don't get any more rust. I do have a little of surface rust on the car and in the trunk, but besides that, it's solid. I just need something to preserve the car for the next 3.5 years. Thanks a bunch.

Re: Gen 1 or 2 Viper Engine in a 1968 Dodge Dart [Re: MuuMuu101] #878779 12/13/10 04:02 PM 12/13/10 04:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 10,938 Spokane Valley, WA Big Bad Bee I Live Here
Big Bad Bee I Live Here Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 10,938 Spokane Valley, WA	Blown340 has been working with a V10 Dakota project for a while. You might PM him and ask about his horror stories. He's an engineer btw... I’m listening.

Re: Gen 1 or 2 Viper Engine in a 1968 Dodge Dart [Re: MuuMuu101] #878780 12/13/10 04:10 PM 12/13/10 04:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 109 OHIO B BUBBAZ572 MR. CAPS LOCK
BUBBAZ572 MR. CAPS LOCK B Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 109 OHIO	IF YOU DO THIS GO WITH THE GEN 2 ENGINE.I WAS TOLD THERE ARE NO PLUG AND PLAY PARTS AVAILABLE FOR GEN 1 ENGINE

Re: Gen 1 or 2 Viper Engine in a 1968 Dodge Dart [Re: BUBBAZ572] #878781 12/13/10 04:12 PM 12/13/10 04:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2010 Posts: 12,375 SoCal MuuMuu101 OP I got lucky at Woodward!
MuuMuu101 OP I got lucky at Woodward! Joined: Dec 2010 Posts: 12,375 SoCal	Quote: IF YOU DO THIS GO WITH THE GEN 2 ENGINE.I WAS TOLD THERE ARE NO PLUG AND PLAY PARTS AVAILABLE FOR GEN 1 ENGINE Gotchya. Anyway the GEN 2 Engine is lighter and produces more power.

Re: Gen 1 or 2 Viper Engine in a 1968 Dodge Dart [Re: MuuMuu101] #878782 12/13/10 11:51 PM 12/13/10 11:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2010 Posts: 12,375 SoCal MuuMuu101 OP I got lucky at Woodward!
MuuMuu101 OP I got lucky at Woodward! Joined: Dec 2010 Posts: 12,375 SoCal	Does anyone know if the GEN 3 or 4 Engine is the same length and width of the GEN 1 or 2 Engines? Does anyone know the dimensions of a Viper engine period? Thanks a lot!

Re: Gen 1 or 2 Viper Engine in a 1968 Dodge Dart [Re: MuuMuu101] #878783 12/14/10 03:00 AM 12/14/10 03:00 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,037 Texas, Dallas G_T super stock
G_T super stock Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,037 Texas, Dallas	Gen 1-4 are pretty close dimension wise. I'd have to check my Gen 3. I think the Gen 1 is a little more compact due to the induction setup. Width is not an issue (similiar to a small block). Be prepared to heavily modify your car. Firewall, trans tunnel & cross member, K-frame. Best bet is to go with an alterkation front end then make custom mounts and tranny cross member. You'll find the stock steering box wont wont work - but with the alterkation you'll have a more modern rack and pinion. you'll need an idit or flaming river steering column. Also know that many your gauges will not work - you'll need to replace them with electrical ones. Simple stuff like the tach and speedo can be a pita. The Gen 1 engines have forged internals and simpler ignition systems - easier to modify. However, you can have any of the ignition systems modified. And yeah, you'll need a complete efi setup - custom/modified tank, pumps, etc. The radiator will need to be custom made - first its large, second it has bigger 2" inlets/outlets. I ended up not only modifying the firewall/trans tunnel but also moved the radiator in front of the radiator support. This means customizing the hood latch, A/C, etc. etc. Its certainly far from a simple swap - no one makes swap components. Especially exhaust. Good luck 1970 Charger - V10, 6spd, Alterkation, Street Lynx 4 Link, Moser Dana 60, Wilwood 14" disks, Forgeline 18" Wheels (Rear:335's), ISIS Multiplexing Wiring http://www.v10mopar.com 2012 Charger SRT8

Re: Gen 1 or 2 Viper Engine in a 1968 Dodge Dart [Re: G_T] #878784 12/14/10 03:17 AM 12/14/10 03:17 AM
Joined: Dec 2010 Posts: 12,375 SoCal MuuMuu101 OP I got lucky at Woodward!
MuuMuu101 OP I got lucky at Woodward! Joined: Dec 2010 Posts: 12,375 SoCal	Quote: Gen 1-4 are pretty close dimension wise. I'd have to check my Gen 3. I think the Gen 1 is a little more compact due to the induction setup. Width is not an issue (similiar to a small block). Be prepared to heavily modify your car. Firewall, trans tunnel & cross member, K-frame. Best bet is to go with an alterkation front end then make custom mounts and tranny cross member. You'll find the stock steering box wont wont work - but with the alterkation you'll have a more modern rack and pinion. you'll need an idit or flaming river steering column. Also know that many your gauges will not work - you'll need to replace them with electrical ones. Simple stuff like the tach and speedo can be a pita. The Gen 1 engines have forged internals and simpler ignition systems - easier to modify. However, you can have any of the ignition systems modified. And yeah, you'll need a complete efi setup - custom/modified tank, pumps, etc. The radiator will need to be custom made - first its large, second it has bigger 2" inlets/outlets. I ended up not only modifying the firewall/trans tunnel but also moved the radiator in front of the radiator support. This means customizing the hood latch, A/C, etc. etc. Its certainly far from a simple swap - no one makes swap components. Especially exhaust. Good luck Now are you talking about Reilly Motorsports alterktion kit? That one is a bit pricey, $4k. But, hey, you got to go all out on something like this. Let me just verify by showing you the link: http://www.reillymotorsports.com/store/product.php?productid=16182&cat=269&page=1

Re: Gen 1 or 2 Viper Engine in a 1968 Dodge Dart [Re: MuuMuu101] #878785 12/14/10 03:32 AM 12/14/10 03:32 AM
Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 4,765 Q quick77rt Parts Problem
quick77rt Parts Problem Q Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 4,765	I WAS TOLD THERE ARE NO PLUG AND PLAY PARTS AVAILABLE FOR GEN 1 ENGINE This is not true, there are some stand alone units that run off windows 95 software. I had a new in crate production line 405hp gen1 unit, even test fitted it. Cool yes, but at 800 pounds dressed without the trans and 405 hp NOPE...cool yes, a killer steet racer, no. Good luck though.

Re: Gen 1 or 2 Viper Engine in a 1968 Dodge Dart [Re: G_T] #878786 12/14/10 12:04 PM 12/14/10 12:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 104,346 Garden Grove, CA OzHemi Penguin-hating Ginger
OzHemi Penguin-hating Ginger Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 104,346 Garden Grove, CA	Quote: Simple stuff like the tach and speedo can be a pita. You can get adapters to run them....I just did for an LS1 swap into an early car. A tach adaptor from Dakota Digital (that will work on 10 cylinder engine signals as well IIRC) and a electronic to mechanical speedo convertor that does the trick as well Getting the gauges to work was alot simplier in my swap than building headers from scratch was (and having to do 2 more of them for a 10 cylinder would be even more fun I can imagine )

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