So, how much braking do you really need?
#870556
12/03/10 11:45 PM
12/03/10 11:45 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 253 Orange County, CA
Mike H
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 253
Orange County, CA
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I can't recall having any difficulty bringing my 69 340 Dart (manual drum brakes) down from 110+mph, many times. So what's the deal with the massive disk brake setups so popular today? Ten inch, 12", 14" rotors, 4 pad, 6 pad, what, 12 pad? I've never even ridden in a mopar that can handle as well as my wife's 90 Camry, or even our Suburban with my wife, kids and the dog in it. So I assume nobody's driving LeMans or Nurburgring. Where the heck are you guys driving that you need so much braking? Down a mineshaft?
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Re: So, how much braking do you really need?
[Re: Mike H]
#870559
12/03/10 11:55 PM
12/03/10 11:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 104,346 Garden Grove, CA
OzHemi
Penguin-hating Ginger
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Penguin-hating Ginger
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 104,346
Garden Grove, CA
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There used to be a saying about never having enough horsepower... I just figure you can never have too much braking potential. And if I do ever get the car out to a road course/open track day sort of thing or run it really hard up in the hills/canyons I know I will never overheat or run out of braking. (I really wish I could have used the matching 8 piston AMG Brembo calipers for the AMG 360mm rotors...but feets couldn't do me a good enough deal on them )
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Re: So, how much braking do you really need?
[Re: goldmember]
#870560
12/03/10 11:58 PM
12/03/10 11:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,122 Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,122
Grand Haven, MI
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braking is typically limited by tire grip and thermal dissipation. 3 cars with identical weight, weight distribution, and tires, one with 10.87" discs, one with 11" drums, the other with 13" discs will probably stop in the same distance from say, 60 mph. but do multiple hard stops from speed, you'll get brake fade quickly with the small disc and the drum car....
my duster stops very good with 10" drums all the way around....from say, 50mph. once on the freeway, I had to make a hard stop from 75mph when an accident happened a few cars ahead of me....by 25MPH my brakes were gone from heat soak....had to swerve and go in the grass to avoid the car in front of me....
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD 1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!*** 2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T 2017 Grand Cherokee Overland 2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: So, how much braking do you really need?
[Re: Keith Black®]
#870562
12/04/10 12:02 AM
12/04/10 12:02 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 104,346 Garden Grove, CA
OzHemi
Penguin-hating Ginger
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Penguin-hating Ginger
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 104,346
Garden Grove, CA
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Quote:
Quote:
...for me, I like the extra "braking horsepower" that 4 wheel discs offer. THAT, plus they look nice through the spokes of the 18 inch rims!
Wilwood's largest 6 piston SUV caliper & 14.5" discs:
If you had a small car like a Torana, only 14.17" rotors like mine would do..
(They are 1.41" thick too )
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Re: So, how much braking do you really need?
[Re: Mike H]
#870564
12/04/10 12:09 AM
12/04/10 12:09 AM
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 606 Montana
Yancy Derringer
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 606
Montana
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Quote:
I can't recall having any difficulty bringing my 69 340 Dart (manual drum brakes)
I'd suggest your memory is remembering the "good times"
My 64 426 Dodge had 11" brakes and a front sway bar stock. I did not have what I'd call "a lot of reserve"
My 69 383 Roadrunner with 11" manual brakes didn't either
My '70 440sixpack had single piston power front disk, and I guess 10 1/2" in the rear. It was more than adequate, but I did some trailer towing---a pretty loaded move from San Diego to N Idaho once, towing a '70 Cuda on a trailer and lots of personal junk. The trailer had electric brakes, but I would not consider that car had "tremendous" over braking capacity.
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Re: So, how much braking do you really need?
[Re: Mike H]
#870565
12/04/10 12:11 AM
12/04/10 12:11 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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I'm gonna fab some rear discs on a SBP 8&3/4 as I ran across some late MP SBP disc rotors from God knows what that are sitting idle/use fabbed brackets/probably 73 A 2.60" calipers. The proportioning may (& prob will be) off but I'm bored and want to know (if 4 wheel discs are good). Just dont know how the endplay is going to affect things but I'll get it close to zero. I have a DD 65 dart w 74 A (2.75") discs/10" bbp drums/stock 4 wheel drum splitter/large bore (1&1/8" iirc) M/C and it stops real good (though the rears lockup 1st on a panic stop) but I drive like an old man around town so no probs and the semi met pads (or rotors) are not wearing significantly that I can tell. All is good .
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: So, how much braking do you really need?
[Re: patrick]
#870566
12/04/10 12:13 AM
12/04/10 12:13 AM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,501 Gainesville,FL
goldmember
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master
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,501
Gainesville,FL
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Quote:
braking is typically limited by tire grip and thermal dissipation. 3 cars with identical weight, weight distribution, and tires, one with 10.87" discs, one with 11" drums, the other with 13" discs will probably stop in the same distance from say, 60 mph. but do multiple hard stops from speed, you'll get brake fade quickly with the small disc and the drum car....
my duster stops very good with 10" drums all the way around....from say, 50mph. once on the freeway, I had to make a hard stop from 75mph when an accident happened a few cars ahead of me....by 25MPH my brakes were gone from heat soak....had to swerve and go in the grass to avoid the car in front of me....
There are a lot more factors but I'm not going into it. I'm used to stopping from well above 120mph and the factory drum brakes in great shape with the proper shoes(not replacement crap) are capable,but fade will become a problem on repeated stops. With the factory tires and such I wouldn't worry so much about real braking.
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Re: So, how much braking do you really need?
[Re: Mike H]
#870569
12/04/10 12:47 AM
12/04/10 12:47 AM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 6,167 Maryland
GO_Fish
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Posts: 6,167
Maryland
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If you are running drum/drum setup, the quickest and easiest bang for the buck is to upgrade to the widest tires that will fit your rims and wheel openings. The bigger contact patch is huge. OEM drums with skinny tires would lock up and skid big time when you stood on them. With a good brake rebuild w/ 4 wheel drums and fat tires, you can stand on the brakes and the tires will not slide. For drag strip use, the setup is plenty safe. If you are doing rallye racing (or an aggressive driver on the street), that is quite another story Need disc's up front then.
Scott B.
"I'm a self-made man... I started with nothing, and I still have most of it!"
68 360 rusty B'cuda 'vert (GO Fish)13.59@ 98.72 mph
69 340 GTS stock 14.18@ 95.60 mph
01 5.9L Ram 1500 Quad Cab 4x4
01 3.5L 300M 16.23@ 86.97 mph
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Re: So, how much braking do you really need?
[Re: GO_Fish]
#870570
12/04/10 02:21 AM
12/04/10 02:21 AM
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 606 Montana
Yancy Derringer
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 606
Montana
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Quote:
...drum/drum setup, the quickest and easiest bang for the buck is to upgrade to the widest tires that will fit your rims and wheel openings.
While you might have a valid point so far as a panic stop, this will do NOTHING for brake fade on a curvy, hilly, hard driven road.
Also, it's important to realize that larger DIAMETER tires effectively cause a "geared up" effect on the brakes (of all kinds) and lessen the braking effect
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Re: So, how much braking do you really need?
[Re: Challenger 1]
#870573
12/04/10 03:11 AM
12/04/10 03:11 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
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Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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Quote:
Front disc brakes are a godsend as far as braking goes. Mopar disc brakes are are pretty dang good especially with a proportioning valve in the rear brake line, it helps to balance front to rear braking.
Last summer I drove my 74 340 challenger to the top of Pikes Peak, which meant I had to drive back down that huge mountain.
I not so sure drum brakes wouldn't over heat coming down that thing.
Halfway down, they stop you and shoot your brakes with a heat gun. I thought I was hardly even using the brakes running in low gear and second but the guy said they were hot and I should let em cool.
Sign say "hot brakes fail" This is at the top, on the way down
Pikes peak is really tough on brakes, expecially with a auto trans or where you can not use engine braking. usually having to be on the brakes because of slower traffic in front of you, and moving too slow for force air through the rotors for the brakes too cool. That said, I'm still running the stock 11" manual drums on the Coronet, but it is a manual trans with 4.10:1 gears
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Re: So, how much braking do you really need?
[Re: Mike H]
#870575
12/04/10 03:43 AM
12/04/10 03:43 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
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To answer your question, keeping up with the jones's, mines bigger then yours, fad, etc. I might even be guilty. Technically it all comes down to how many times you want to stop from speed. And most of the time on a road course with a non race car, the biggest first brake improvement is simply fresh High temp brake fluid, next is decent air ducts to front brakes, and decent pads for the application. And massive oversized brakes will lower a cars driving performance unless we are talking CF rotors, because of rotational mass of huge rotors. If what you got works, just maintain it, and smile at the newest/greatest/biggest crowd.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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