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Scat pak decal on quarter window? #869484
12/02/10 02:30 PM
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North Texas
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Did a 1969 Super Bee have these on the quarter windows? I have a fairly original Bee and it doesnt look like there was ever the Bee decal, When did they start puttin them on? Thanks!


1970 AAR CUDA 1970 Super Bee 383 Auto 1969 Super Bee 383 4Spd 1968 Satellite 500 Stroker 1986 Shelby GLHS 1970 Coronet 500 383 Auto 1996 Indy Pace Truck 1998 Dakota R/T 408 Stroker
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 1AARCUDA] #869485
12/02/10 02:42 PM
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Gateway to the West.
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I think that was a 1970 only thing.


There comes a time in life, when you walk away from all the drama & people who create it. You surround yourself with people who make you laugh, forget the bad, and focus on the good.
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 1AARCUDA] #869486
12/02/10 03:05 PM
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Ontario, Canada
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I am fairly certain I have an A12 Bee with them as well as a 69 Swinger....I'll check tonight.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 1AARCUDA] #869487
12/02/10 03:23 PM
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Sacramento CA
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My 70 Superbee has them, but I thought they were something you got if you joined the Scat Pack (meaning they were installed by the owner, not the factory)

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: Morty426] #869488
12/02/10 04:45 PM
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NY
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Two very original A12 Bees I have viewed recently have not had them.


'70 Super Bee 440 6 pack 4-spd 4.10 Dana N96 EB5
‘70 Super Bee 440 6 pack 4-spd 3.54 Dana FC7
‘70 ‘Cuda 440+6bbl 4-spd 3.54 Dana N96 EB5 V1W

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: Morty426] #869489
12/02/10 06:32 PM
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Ontario, Canada
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Quote:

My 70 Superbee has them, but I thought they were something you got if you joined the Scat Pack (meaning they were installed by the owner, not the factory)




No - they were put on at the factory. All "Scat Pack" vehicles were supposed to get them. Some got 1 per side, some got none.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 1AARCUDA] #869490
12/02/10 09:28 PM
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North Texas
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1AARCUDA Offline OP
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My 70 Bee has them, again a original one owner car. I guess 71's didnt have them either? Hmmm... no for sure answer?


1970 AAR CUDA 1970 Super Bee 383 Auto 1969 Super Bee 383 4Spd 1968 Satellite 500 Stroker 1986 Shelby GLHS 1970 Coronet 500 383 Auto 1996 Indy Pace Truck 1998 Dakota R/T 408 Stroker
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 1AARCUDA] #869491
12/02/10 09:38 PM
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Connecticut
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You did NOT get them on your 70 Scat pack car if it was equipped with A/C. You got the Chrysler Airtemp decal on the passenger side only rear quarter window.


1970 Dodge Challenger T/A

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: jeff968] #869492
12/02/10 10:15 PM
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Toronto (YYZ) Ontario
YYZ Offline
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One of my '71 340 Challengers had them....

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 70440+6bbl] #869493
12/02/10 10:49 PM
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Ontario, Canada
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Quote:

Two very original A12 Bees I have viewed recently have not had them.




One of mine has them - the other doesn't.........But....It may have been added early - it is the correct decal - not a re-pop. It just doesn't look as "old" as some of the ones on my 1970 Dodges - still checking some others.

Last edited by FJ5_Fish; 12/02/10 11:49 PM.
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 70440+6bbl] #869494
12/02/10 10:52 PM
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upstate western ny
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Quote:

Two very original A12 Bees I have viewed recently have not had them.



Mine doesnt either

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: jeff968] #869495
12/03/10 01:55 AM
12/03/10 01:55 AM
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Las Vegas, NV
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Quote:

You did NOT get them on your 70 Scat pack car if it was equipped with A/C. You got the Chrysler Airtemp decal on the passenger side only rear quarter window.




My '70 Challenger R/T 383 auto with A/C has them.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 6bblgt] #869496
12/03/10 08:50 AM
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Candler,NC / Myrtle Beach, SC
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I once owned a 70 Challenger R/T, 383 4 spd with factory air, and it had Bees on the 1/4 windows.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: JDMopar] #869497
12/03/10 10:07 AM
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KY USA
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No factory installed decals in 69 but if you joined the club, you received this round style beee in 69. Got these from PCG and it is generally accepted most people installed them near the bottom front of quarter window.


68 Polara 500...LL1 Y7 M6X
69 Hemi road runner...X9 X9 M6X
69 A12 road runner....R4 R4 M6X
69 ModTop FLORAL Super Bee...F
70 AAR 'cuda...EW1 EW1 H4X9
71 Duster 340...FJ6 V24 L6X9
71 road runner FC7 V1X M6X9

72 Rallye Charger B5 V1W

74 'cuda 360...KB5 V1X A6X9
08 SRT Challenger #234



Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 6bblgt] #869498
12/03/10 11:10 AM
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Connecticut
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Quote:

Quote:

You did NOT get them on your 70 Scat pack car if it was equipped with A/C. You got the Chrysler Airtemp decal on the passenger side only rear quarter window.




My '70 Challenger R/T 383 auto with A/C has them.




Well, I purchased these cars back in the late seventies and this is what I found. Do you not have the air temp decal or do you have both the a/c and the bees?

Where is Barry when we need him?


1970 Dodge Challenger T/A

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 1AARCUDA] #869499
12/03/10 04:03 PM
12/03/10 04:03 PM
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North Texas
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My 70 Bee with a/c has them too (no a/c decal). Hmm... So anyways does a 1969 Super Bee come with them or not? Where are the experts?


1970 AAR CUDA 1970 Super Bee 383 Auto 1969 Super Bee 383 4Spd 1968 Satellite 500 Stroker 1986 Shelby GLHS 1970 Coronet 500 383 Auto 1996 Indy Pace Truck 1998 Dakota R/T 408 Stroker
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: JDMopar] #869500
12/03/10 04:15 PM
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Ontario, Canada
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I have a 70 Chall with air - Going check that one too.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: FJ5_Fish] #869501
12/03/10 10:44 PM
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colorado
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a12superbee Offline
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70 and up scatpak cars has always been the consensus.
I'm surprised some of the more knowledgeable guys haven't stomped this fire out yet.
Correct if in error.


I can't afford this. mark
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: a12superbee] #869502
12/03/10 10:53 PM
12/03/10 10:53 PM
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Mechanicsburg, PA
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My 70 340 Dart Swinger had them Both sides

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: a12superbee] #869503
12/03/10 11:03 PM
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Ontario, Canada
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Quote:

70 and up scatpak cars has always been the consensus.
I'm surprised some of the more knowledgeable guys haven't stomped this fire out yet.
Correct if in error.




Yup - It's starting to look like a dead duck for 69's....

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: jeff968] #869504
12/04/10 01:41 AM
12/04/10 01:41 AM
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St. Louis, MO
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

You did NOT get them on your 70 Scat pack car if it was equipped with A/C. You got the Chrysler Airtemp decal on the passenger side only rear quarter window.




My '70 Challenger R/T 383 auto with A/C has them.




Well, I purchased these cars back in the late seventies and this is what I found. Do you not have the air temp decal or do you have both the a/c and the bees?

Where is Barry when we need him?





For the 1970 Model Year - Scat Pack cars got the Bees - with and without A/C. Here is my original 1970 Challenger R/T SE (440 A/C.) Sept '69 Hamtramck car. (Airtemp was only on the right side...Bees are on both.) I have seen many examples other than mine like this...E and B bodies. Hope this helps... Dave

6336435-100_3392.JPG (1214 downloads)

DodgeMaterial - Dave JS29U0B - FK5 - 440-4 Auto WS23V0A - EB5 - 440-6 Auto
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: FJ5_Fish] #869505
12/04/10 02:01 AM
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I would expand that statement to '70 ONLY!! except for "J" Challenger maybe?? Anyone ever see a '71 Charger or Demon with originals?
'70-'71 Parts Catalog shows: 23-63-134 DECAL, Qtr. Wdo. Glass Scat Pack Insignia (J) - (W '70) - (L '70)

The '70-'71 Parts Catalog also shown one pair of part numbers 3505 100 & 3505 101 - I thought there were 3 pairs (1 each for A, B, & E-bodies with the corner cut to match the roofline of the 1/4 window to aid installation). What does the '70 ONLY Catalog show?

I have not seen a '69 Daytona with Bees in the 1/4 window & they were the last of the '69s to make it to the dealerships. & they also made the '70 Scat Pack brochure.

There has been some discussion in the past that "stripe DELETE" cars recieved NO Bees, but until someone comes up with an engineering drawing showing and/or explaining the application instruction "the original FACTORY intention" as to which cars recieved Bees will be in question. They were simple & inexpensive to add or remove 40 years ago or today.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 1AARCUDA] #869506
12/04/10 04:44 AM
12/04/10 04:44 AM
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Albuquerque
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My 14K original mile A12 Bee has them. Only A12's I have seen with them were coupes. I have never seen them on a hardtop.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 6bblgt] #869507
12/04/10 04:53 AM
12/04/10 04:53 AM
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N.E. OHIO, USA
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Quote:

There has been some discussion in the past that "stripe DELETE" cars recieved NO Bees, but until someone comes up with an engineering drawing showing and/or explaining the application instruction "the original FACTORY intention" as to which cars recieved Bees will be in question. They were simple & inexpensive to add or remove 40 years ago or today.






Dan what do you mean by this statement; are you talking about no bee on the 1/4 glass or on the tail? And are you talking 70 and + or no bee on the tail of a stripe delete '69 Super Bee too?


MikeR

6336651-DSC00036.JPG (376 downloads)
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: A12] #869508
12/04/10 04:56 AM
12/04/10 04:56 AM
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N.E. OHIO, USA
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here's one on the other end of the same '69 Hemi survivor bee above (less than 7k miles on it)???

6336652-DSC00035.JPG (512 downloads)
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 1AARCUDA] #869509
12/04/10 05:06 AM
12/04/10 05:06 AM
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Albuquerque
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My 14k A12 Bee has them on the pop-out quarter windows and I have seen them on other coupes, but have never seen any on hardtops with roll-up quarter windows.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: A12] #869510
12/04/10 09:51 AM
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Georgetown Ontario Canada
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These were on a 71 Challenger convertible when I got it. Look original to me.
I'm not the original owner so I can't say when they were put on


CHECK OUT MY NEW WEB SITE !
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: anlauto] #869511
12/04/10 04:45 PM
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Anchorage, Alaska
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Bruce H's pink 70 Six Pack Challenger came with them. Those windows (and decals) are currently in my car, as he swapped them out for new ECS dated-coded glass in his OEM Gold effort.


Until total honesty is on the table, we're not even talking about reality...
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: FJ5_Fish] #869512
12/04/10 08:08 PM
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Ontario, Canada
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Quote:

I have a 70 Chall with air - Going check that one too.




It has the Airtemp on the right side - No Bees either side.

These were decals the workers were supposed to put on but s#@t happens.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: FJ5_Fish] #869513
12/05/10 12:42 AM
12/05/10 12:42 AM
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Pittsburgh, PA
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Here is how I know it.

Only High Perf Model&Engine determined a Scat Pack car.

For '70 the Scat Pack cars were specific high-perf: Chally R/T, Charger R/T, Super Bee, Swinger 340 and Coronet R/T having standard engines of (340-4, 383-4, 440-4, 440-6, 426) 340-6 added later in year.

For '71 Scat Pack cars were: Charger R/T, Super Bee, Chally R/T and Demon 340 having standard engines of (340-4, 383-4, 440-4, 440-6, 426).

All Scat Pack cars came with the Scat Bee qtr window stickers and were only the high-perf model (ex: R/T's). Many non-Scat cars were built with or dealer added the high-perf goodies as options but they should not have Window Bees.

For '69, I understood that there were not any Scat window bees.

Cool things never die as I see guys putting them on their new Chally R/Ts.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: Deuces-Wild] #869514
12/05/10 12:51 AM
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Ontario, Canada
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We know - My Challenger convert is a 440 R/T....with air

and

There were many cars that never had them that should have.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: FJ5_Fish] #869515
12/05/10 09:11 AM
12/05/10 09:11 AM
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FLA
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'71 Charger Super Bee Scat Pack


Here is a '71 Club Member Scat Pack

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: Deuces-Wild] #869516
12/05/10 04:38 PM
12/05/10 04:38 PM
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Chicago Blackhawks
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My 1971 Challenger R/T does not have the Side window Scat Bees . Like another poster stated in an earlies post Stripe delete cars do not get the stickers. I do not know if this is true or not about Stripe delete 1971 Challenger R/Ts. I parted out an R/T Challenger and still have the side windows with its sticker on it.


1971 HEMI E BODY REGISTRY
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: hemicar1971] #869517
12/05/10 04:49 PM
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Ontario, Canada
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Another possibility is when these cars were traded in to a non-Dodge dealership - who says the new dealership didn't take them off in prep....Like, "Oh look at these crap decals someone put on - let's get rid of them before we re-sell". That is what we did when I worked at a dealership in the 70's. We also black spray bombed over the surface rust on stuff on the undercarriage of new cars if the car was going into the showroom....another person told me his dealership did the same thing.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: hemicar1971] #869518
12/05/10 04:56 PM
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Quote:

My 1971 Challenger R/T does not have the Side window Scat Bees . Like another poster stated in an earlies post Stripe delete cars do not get the stickers. I do not know if this is true or not about Stripe delete 1971 Challenger R/Ts. I parted out an R/T Challenger and still have the side windows with its sticker on it.




My 71 stripe delete Challenger R/T does not have them either - but I think that is a coincidence...

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 1AARCUDA] #869519
12/05/10 06:43 PM
12/05/10 06:43 PM
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Rhode Island
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My 70 Challenger had them. I was told it was a 70 only thing. It was about the only orginal thing I didn't have to fix or replace.

Question, did this come from the factory or were they put on at the dearship?

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: FJ5_Fish] #869520
12/05/10 07:27 PM
12/05/10 07:27 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

My 1971 Challenger R/T does not have the Side window Scat Bees . Like another poster stated in an earlies post Stripe delete cars do not get the stickers. I do not know if this is true or not about Stripe delete 1971 Challenger R/Ts. I parted out an R/T Challenger and still have the side windows with its sticker on it.




My 71 stripe delete Challenger R/T does not have them either - but I think that is a coincidence...




Mine neither....and mine is a stripe delete. And I am 100% certain they werent't on there when the car was delivered to the original owner.

Do we have a pattern here??

Jim, what are the details on your'71. Is it a 6 pack with a hole in the roof??

MB

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: HPMike] #869521
12/05/10 09:28 PM
12/05/10 09:28 PM
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Quote:

Jim, what are the details on your'71. Is it a 6 pack with a hole in the roof??

MB




Frank P's car?

Also, this is the best pic I have, but I don't think my former LA built A66 car had either the Bees or the airtemp decal. It was a very original / unmolested and mostly original paint car when I bought it


Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 6bblgt] #869522
12/05/10 09:41 PM
12/05/10 09:41 PM
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Illinois
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Quote:

I would expand that statement to '70 ONLY!! except for "J" Challenger maybe?? Anyone ever see a '71 Charger or Demon with originals?
'70-'71 Parts Catalog shows: 23-63-134 DECAL, Qtr. Wdo. Glass Scat Pack Insignia (J) - (W '70) - (L '70)

The '70-'71 Parts Catalog also shown one pair of part numbers 3505 100 & 3505 101 - I thought there were 3 pairs (1 each for A, B, & E-bodies with the corner cut to match the roofline of the 1/4 window to aid installation). What does the '70 ONLY Catalog show?

I have not seen a '69 Daytona with Bees in the 1/4 window & they were the last of the '69s to make it to the dealerships. & they also made the '70 Scat Pack brochure.

There has been some discussion in the past that "stripe DELETE" cars recieved NO Bees, but until someone comes up with an engineering drawing showing and/or explaining the application instruction "the original FACTORY intention" as to which cars recieved Bees will be in question. They were simple & inexpensive to add or remove 40 years ago or today.




I just looked at an original but nasty 71 Super Bee yesterday and noticed it had the bees on both windows...they were closer to top though on this cars 1/4 windows. This was only reason I noticed them thinking wow those are high. Original unrestored car though. Added?

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: gtx6970] #869523
12/05/10 09:43 PM
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Quote:

Also, this is the best pic I have, but I don't think my former LA built A66 car had either the Bees or the airtemp decal. It was a very original / unmolested and mostly original paint car when I bought it




Carpeted door panels
Tuff wheel
Chrome on parking brake pedal
power windows, black vinyl top, black bumblebee stripe & SE finish panel from additional pics in the LA thread .....

from one pic ..... I'm just sayin'

Last edited by 6bblgt; 12/05/10 10:58 PM.
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: HPMike] #869524
12/05/10 10:33 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

My 1971 Challenger R/T does not have the Side window Scat Bees . Like another poster stated in an earlies post Stripe delete cars do not get the stickers. I do not know if this is true or not about Stripe delete 1971 Challenger R/Ts. I parted out an R/T Challenger and still have the side windows with its sticker on it.




My 71 stripe delete Challenger R/T does not have them either - but I think that is a coincidence...




Mine neither....and mine is a stripe delete. And I am 100% certain they werent't on there when the car was delivered to the original owner.

Do we have a pattern here??

Jim, what are the details on your'71. Is it a 6 pack with a hole in the roof??

MB




Nope - It has 8 holes on the intake and the only hole near the roof is in the owners head!

Black, stick - original paint.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: SGTFURY62] #869525
12/05/10 10:35 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

I would expand that statement to '70 ONLY!! except for "J" Challenger maybe?? Anyone ever see a '71 Charger or Demon with originals?
'70-'71 Parts Catalog shows: 23-63-134 DECAL, Qtr. Wdo. Glass Scat Pack Insignia (J) - (W '70) - (L '70)

The '70-'71 Parts Catalog also shown one pair of part numbers 3505 100 & 3505 101 - I thought there were 3 pairs (1 each for A, B, & E-bodies with the corner cut to match the roofline of the 1/4 window to aid installation). What does the '70 ONLY Catalog show?

I have not seen a '69 Daytona with Bees in the 1/4 window & they were the last of the '69s to make it to the dealerships. & they also made the '70 Scat Pack brochure.

There has been some discussion in the past that "stripe DELETE" cars recieved NO Bees, but until someone comes up with an engineering drawing showing and/or explaining the application instruction "the original FACTORY intention" as to which cars recieved Bees will be in question. They were simple & inexpensive to add or remove 40 years ago or today.




I just looked at an original but nasty 71 Super Bee yesterday and noticed it had the bees on both windows...they were closer to top though on this cars 1/4 windows. This was only reason I noticed them thinking wow those are high. Original unrestored car though. Added?




Frank Badalson had a really low mile car where the Bees were applied like....just good old sloppy work!

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: jml19621] #869526
12/05/10 10:36 PM
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My 70 Challenger had them. I was told it was a 70 only thing. It was about the only orginal thing I didn't have to fix or replace.

Question, did this come from the factory or were they put on at the dearship?




The factory

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 6bblgt] #869527
12/05/10 10:44 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

Also, this is the best pic I have, but I don't think my former LA built A66 car had either the Bees or the airtemp decal. It was a very original / unmolested and mostly original paint car when I bought it




Carpeted door panels
Tuff wheel
Chrome on parking brake pedal

from one pic ..... I'm just sayin'




My old FJ6 T/A with Houndstooth interior and rear seat ashtrays had the SE style door panels...I always wondered what triggered that? I think the Cloth and Vinyl got you those door panels etc.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: FJ5_Fish] #869528
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Also, this is the best pic I have, but I don't think my former LA built A66 car had either the Bees or the airtemp decal. It was a very original / unmolested and mostly original paint car when I bought it




Carpeted door panels
Tuff wheel
Chrome on parking brake pedal

from one pic ..... I'm just sayin'




My old FJ6 T/A with Houndstooth interior and rear seat ashtrays had the SE style door panels...I always wondered what triggered that? I think the Cloth and Vinyl got you those door panels etc.




Yes, a cloth & vinyl or leather interior on a non-SE would get you upgraded door panels.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: FJ5_Fish] #869529
12/05/10 10:52 PM
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something to add to the mix.. my uncle has a very unrestored 72 340 demon with only 40,000 miles on it. that car has the scat pack bee in the 1/4 window. im pretty much %100 certain they are original. not sure on the SBD though.. Also, on dads 70 charger r/t a/c car, that had the scat pack bee and the airtemp decal.


1971 Plymouth Duster 340 auto
1937 Plymouth PT50
1969 Dodge Dart Swinger 340 4 speed
2013 Ram laramie 2500 hemi
2008 Harley FLSTSB springer
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 6bblgt] #869530
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Quote:

Carpeted door panels
Tuff wheel
Chrome on parking brake pedal
power windows, black vinyl top, black bumblebee stripe & SE finish panel from additional pics in the LA thread .....

from one pic ..... I'm just sayin'




ALL added,,,,by me . can you tell,,,,,,,,I REALLY like options

When I bought the car, it was mostly original but worn paint. rust free external sheetmetal. ( trunk floor was full of pin holes ) All original interior and BLACK vinyl top. Engine and trans I believe had never been out of the car.When I sold the car. I had replaced only the back rest portion of the pass seat cover, headliner and carpet

Last edited by gtx6970; 12/05/10 11:14 PM.
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: gtx6970] #869531
12/05/10 11:16 PM
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Understood, I thought the pics represented a "survivor" or as purchased.

The used car prep story mentioned in the thread makes sense also. Get rid of the "hot-rod punk" kid's stickers.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 6bblgt] #869532
12/06/10 01:07 AM
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A lot of those 8 Barrel E bodies in 1971 had stripe deletes. Goes for Cudas and Challengers. I will have to look into my information and see what kind of percentages I have on that stuff.

I have known of the 1971 Challenger I own for a very long long time.Owned the car since the late seventies. I know the original owner. I can never remember the car ever having the Bees on the Quarter glass, car has never been restored and always has been a drag car. So if this is true of 3 1971 Challengers with stripe delete,that do not have Bees on the quarter glass, it sure sounds like the two go together. Funny thing the 3 cars we are talking about are all 1971 Hemi Challengers. I guess people just did not like the stripes offered in 1971, Bill Board included.


1971 HEMI E BODY REGISTRY
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: hemicar1971] #869533
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Sorry to veer off the track a bit....

Kevin/Jim

I am assuming that your cars are rallye hood equipped. Do either of your cars have any R/T id on the hood?

MB

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: HPMike] #869534
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Here is a picture of the car in front of the original dealership in Toronto(Rexdale) Ontario, Canada. Car is a Shaker car. I am not sure about Jims car.The Car has had the same paint scheme on it since the fall of 1972.Low milage Drag Car most of its life.


1971 HEMI E BODY REGISTRY
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: hemicar1971] #869535
12/06/10 02:25 AM
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My car was originally equipped with the R/T decal on the hood-even though it was stripe delete. I am sure I have seen others this way as well. My thinking is that the R/T is more of an ID emblem rather than a stripe. I have a grainy photo of the car when it was a few months old showing the the small R/T hood decal and no bees either. My car is also a Y93(show car paint), but I don't know what this means or if it has any significance as to how the car was originally equipped.

MB

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: HPMike] #869536
12/06/10 11:11 AM
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Pangaea
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One possible way to verify if the window Bees were added later and not installed on the line.
When I pulled the original carpet out of a '70 TA I had back in '86, I found the decal backing paper underneath.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: B5 Bee] #869537
12/06/10 11:43 AM
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My '70 N96 383 Bee post car had 1 on the driver side. I was the third owner in '76.


"The only thing to do for triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

"NUNQUAM NON PARATUS!"
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: Rug_Trucker] #869538
12/06/10 12:09 PM
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I don't know if the A66 cars were considered part of the scat pack? I had a couple 70 340 Challs back in the seventies and they did not have the bees on the window. An interesting note, I remember taking the carpets out of my T/A back in 1979 and finding the bee decal backings underneath the carpet, thrown their by the line workers back in 1970. Cool.


1970 Dodge Challenger T/A

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: jeff968] #869539
12/06/10 12:43 PM
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Yes, A66 challenger had this Scat pack decal.

6341307-A66code.jpg (271 downloads)

70 Challenger, A66, 340 ci
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: Chal340] #869540
12/06/10 01:33 PM
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Quote:

Yes, A66 challenger had this Scat pack decal.




Is this a factory circa 1970 document?


1970 Dodge Challenger T/A

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: jeff968] #869541
12/06/10 02:49 PM
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It's from the Data Book, error included.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: hemicar1971] #869542
12/06/10 03:02 PM
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Quote:

Here is a picture of the car in front of the original dealership in Toronto(Rexdale) Ontario, Canada. Car is a Shaker car. I am not sure about Jims car.The Car has had the same paint scheme on it since the fall of 1972.Low milage Drag Car most of its life.




Freddies old car! Love it! I bought a lot of parts at that dealership in the 70's and 80's.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: HPMike] #869543
12/06/10 03:05 PM
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Quote:

Sorry to veer off the track a bit....

Kevin/Jim

I am assuming that your cars are rallye hood equipped. Do either of your cars have any R/T id on the hood?

MB




Nope - No R/T on my hood - Rallye.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: jeff968] #869544
12/06/10 03:07 PM
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ECS Offline
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Quote:

Is this a factory circa 1970 document?




Here is the engineering drawing from Chrysler. We just reproduced these decals because the ones that are currently being sold throughout the industry do not represent the originals. Along with the spec drawing, here is a photo of an original and our reproduction!




Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 6bblgt] #869545
12/06/10 03:56 PM
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Quote:

'70-'71 Parts Catalog shows: 23-63-134 DECAL, Qtr. Wdo. Glass Scat Pack Insignia (J) - (W '70) - (L '70)

The '70-'71 Parts Catalog also shown one pair of part numbers 3505 100 & 3505 101 - I thought there were 3 pairs (1 each for A, B, & E-bodies with the corner cut to match the roofline of the 1/4 window to aid installation). What does the '70 ONLY Catalog show?





Dave's post of the engineering drawing states:

3505102-3 (S/O 3505100) DECAL-QTR WDO GLASS "SCAT PACK" INSIGNIA

Anyone know the translation for the "(S/O 3505100)"?

Anyone have pics of their original backing from one of the T/As mentioned?

6341603-3505100-101.jpg (282 downloads)
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 6bblgt] #869546
12/06/10 04:12 PM
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S/O 3505100 - "service/only" part number for right side.

Last edited by ECS; 12/06/10 04:30 PM.
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 6bblgt] #869547
12/06/10 04:23 PM
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I called someone with two '70 only Parts catalogs, they each had a different date on the needed page.

1970 Parts Catalog(s):

3505100-3505101 J - W - L March '70 & May '70 dated pages

Before March of '70, Chrysler Corp. figured they only needed one pair for the parts counter.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 6bblgt] #869548
12/06/10 04:42 PM
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Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 6bblgt] #869549
12/06/10 04:42 PM
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Hi Dan,
The first series of numbers on the drawing (3505102-3) were the assembly line issue part numbers. The second number 3505100 was the service order number. These numbers were "Purchase Order" numbers that became the actual part number for the part. The service order number could have been issued because a different vendor was used for the service order parts. Tom Barcroft (our newest employee at ECS) is a retired Exec for Chrysler and used to be involved with this part of the process. He explained the protocol for how this was done regarding these parts and their assigned numbers!

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: ECS] #869550
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S/O = Service Order (#) or Service Only (#)

thank you & Tom

Do you have the similar engineering drawings for Charger & Dart (or any from '71 model year)?

Last edited by 6bblgt; 12/06/10 04:51 PM.
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: jeff968] #869551
12/06/10 04:49 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

Yes, A66 challenger had this Scat pack decal.




Is this a factory circa 1970 document?




Here :
http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/dealerships/1970DealershipDataBook-Old-04.shtml

Last edited by Chal340; 12/06/10 04:51 PM.

70 Challenger, A66, 340 ci
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 6bblgt] #869552
12/06/10 05:07 PM
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I sent you a PM Dan. Thanks!!

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 6bblgt] #869553
12/06/10 07:14 PM
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Are decals with the shallow guide cuts for e-body or b-body? The e-body eng. doc posted by Dave shows the deeper guide cut decal but shows number 3505100 which is the shallow guide cut decal.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: Deuces-Wild] #869554
12/06/10 10:44 PM
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This thread makes me curious as to whether my car ever had the bees on the windows. Unfortunately, my car is definately not a survivor! It's a stripe delete 383 70 R/T Challenger.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: Quicksmopars] #869555
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It should have if they remembered to put it/them on.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: Quicksmopars] #869556
12/06/10 11:11 PM
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PAINT STRIPE DECK LID, QTR PANEL & DECAL
MODELS F/J-S-00 ($V90) F/J55-H-23,27 ($A66)($V90/V98)

I think we need a decoder ring for the engineering drawings is this a proper translation?

F - 1970 model year
J - DODGE e-body - Challenger
S - price class SPECIAL - R/T
00 - body style - ALL
$ - with (OPTION)
V - stripe
9 - painted "bumblebee"
0 - colors - ALL
and
F - 1970 model year
J - DODGE e-body - Challenger
55 - engine - 340 4bbl
H - price class HIGH - Challenger
23 - body style - 2 door hardtop
27 - body style - 2 door convertible
$ - with (OPTION)
A66 - 340 4bbl engine package
$ - with (OPTION)
V - stripe
9 - painted "bumblebee"
0 - colors - ALL
or
V - stripe
9 - painted "bumblebee"
8 - DELETE

It would be cool to see the revision data. When was the A66 nomenclature added? (see A66 thread)

I see this engineering drawing covers the A66 cars w/V98 "stripe DELETE" - they should have "Scat Pack" Bees.
Since V90 was a R/T OPTION there has to be a similar drawing for the STANDARD V60 & V68 R/Ts? & A & B-bodies.

6342475-04.jpg (267 downloads)
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 6bblgt] #869557
12/07/10 12:52 AM
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I've got a 70 A66 Challenger that I have owned since 1979. It is an FK5 stripe delete car, and it has window bees. Before I got the car, it had never been messed with. I had another 70 A66 that I bought in the early 80's as a parts car, and it had window bees also. I don't know if it was a stripe delete car. All I remember about it, was that it was B5 blue and looked like it had been painted with a pine top!

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 6bblgt] #869558
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That decoder ring looks good to me Dan.

Looks like A66 with V98 stripe delete should have the bees in the windows. Interesting that V98 is mentioned regarding the A66 cars, but not mentioned on the RT models. Does that mean that the RT models with V98 stripe delete should not have the bees? (all of this pertaining to only 1970 of coarse.)

Also, no mention of the V6 stripes here. Are you thinking there would be a seperate drawing for those, possibly with more window bee info on it?

Tav

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 6bblgt] #869559
12/07/10 02:45 AM
12/07/10 02:45 AM
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Florida
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Quote:


Anyone have pics of their original backing from one of the T/As mentioned?




I think I saw them on Barry's 173 mile T/A photo CD. I don't have it with me on this computer though. (traveling currently)

Tav

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: ECS] #869560
12/07/10 02:47 AM
12/07/10 02:47 AM
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USA
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There are NOT separate decals and/or part numbers that differentiate A, B or E body vehicles. I have just learned that our reproductions are incorrect/different than the assembly line versions. I had formated our reproduction decals off of an NOS item. The NOS replacements that everyone has been using are also different (incorrect?) than the ones that were applied by the Factory. I am scrapping all of our current inventory and having our reproductions (artwork) changed to represent the Factory originals! At least now what we offer will be "factory correct".

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: cataclysm80] #869561
12/07/10 02:54 AM
12/07/10 02:54 AM
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USA
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David Walden
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Quote:

Does that mean that the RT models with V98 stripe delete should not have the bees? (all of this pertaining to only 1970 of coarse.)




Notice the word "STANDARD" that is spelled out under the Bee drawing. It pertains to all models mentioned in the applications box for this engineered blueprint. There should be no models exempted that are specifically listed/called out.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: ECS] #869562
12/07/10 03:25 AM
12/07/10 03:25 AM
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Las Vegas, NV
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The STANDARD stripe on a '70 Challenger R/T was V60 (OPTIONAL colors), so if it was ordered without stripes, the stripe DELETE code would be V68. V90 (OPTIONAL colors) was a N/C (no cost/no charge) OPTION.
A66 was STANDARD with V90 (OPTIONAL colors), so if it was ordered without stripes, the stripe DELETE code would be V98.

Dave, What was "wrong" with your reproductions? How did they differ from factory applied?
I'm convinced (until proven wrong) that the 3505100-1 were factory applied on b-bodies, 3505102-3 were factory applied on e-bodies & WAG there were 3505104-5 for the Darts. The 3505100-1 saw life as the service replacement part for all body styles since it was the highest use factory pair.

'70 muscle car "SCAT PACK" Dodges:
a-body * 13,781 * Dart Swinger 340
e-body * 27,235 * Challenger R/T, R/T SE, T/A & A66 (#s exceeded projections)
b-body * 28,458 * Charger R/T, Coronet R/T, Super Bee

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 6bblgt] #869563
12/07/10 01:06 PM
12/07/10 01:06 PM
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USA
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David Walden
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Quote:

Dave, What was "wrong" with your reproductions? How did they differ from factory applied?
I'm convinced (until proven wrong) that the 3505100-1 were factory applied on b-bodies, 3505102-3 were factory applied on e-bodies & WAG there were 3505104-5 for the Darts.





There are differences in both the actual drawing and coloring of the decals. The service NOS replacements are not like the factory versions. Also, the engineered drawing I posted earlier was for E Body (B&J) illustrations only. It comes from a reference manual specific to only E body vehicles. I can't make a hypothesis or guess other than the documented facts I have access to. Regarding this subject matter, I cannot prove a negative! What Chrysler information have you documented that causes you to feel "convinced" about A & B Bodies using a separate part number?

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: HPMike] #869564
12/07/10 01:13 PM
12/07/10 01:13 PM
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Sacramento CA
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

My 1971 Challenger R/T does not have the Side window Scat Bees . Like another poster stated in an earlies post Stripe delete cars do not get the stickers. I do not know if this is true or not about Stripe delete 1971 Challenger R/Ts. I parted out an R/T Challenger and still have the side windows with its sticker on it.




My 71 stripe delete Challenger R/T does not have them either - but I think that is a coincidence...




Mine neither....and mine is a stripe delete. And I am 100% certain they werent't on there when the car was delivered to the original owner.

Do we have a pattern here??

Jim, what are the details on your'71. Is it a 6 pack with a hole in the roof??

MB




My 71 sixpack is stripe delete and it doesn't have bees.

The pattern continues.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: ECS] #869565
12/07/10 01:24 PM
12/07/10 01:24 PM
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Lansing, MI
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Quote:

Quote:

Dave, What was "wrong" with your reproductions? How did they differ from factory applied?
I'm convinced (until proven wrong) that the 3505100-1 were factory applied on b-bodies, 3505102-3 were factory applied on e-bodies & WAG there were 3505104-5 for the Darts.





There are differences in both the actual drawing and coloring of the decals. The service NOS replacements are not like the factory versions. Also, the engineered drawing I posted earlier was for E Body (B&J) illustrations only. It comes from a reference manual specific to only E body vehicles. I can't make a hypothesis or guess other than the documented facts I have access to. Regarding this subject matter, I cannot prove a negative! What Chrysler information have you documented that causes you to feel "convinced" about A & B Bodies using a separate part number?




Is the engineering drawing helpful?

6343382-scan0001.jpg (390 downloads)

70 Road Runner 383-4 4 speed FJ5 & black guts
70 Charger R/T 440-4 4 speed FJ5 & white guts
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 70gtx440dana] #869566
12/07/10 01:35 PM
12/07/10 01:35 PM
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USA
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David Walden
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Quote:

Is the engineering drawing helpful?




That is exactly what was needed to help eliminate some of the guess work. Your drawing substantiates and proves what Dan conveyed in an earlier post. The "100-1" decal was most likely the correct decal for the B Body but also sufficient to use for the other vehicles as a service replacement. If anyone has an A Body engineering drawing it would complete the scenario. Thanks for posting that illustration!

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 6bblgt] #869567
12/07/10 01:46 PM
12/07/10 01:46 PM
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USA
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David Walden
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Quote:

Dave, What was "wrong" with your reproductions? How did they differ from factory applied?




Hi Dan! The posting of the B Body drawing might have opened a completely new can of worms. I don't think that my reproductions were necessarily incorrect! They may have been wrong for A and E Body vehicles. Dave Stuart and I both have the original Bees on our Challenger quarters and they look slightly different than the 3505100-1 (or B Body) part numbers. Could this mean that there were actually 3 variations as they pertained to the specific vehicles?

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: ECS] #869568
12/07/10 03:14 PM
12/07/10 03:14 PM
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Manhattan, IL
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Dave, Dsent Dave Stuart have a 70 Coronet Rt also that may have the original decals on the windows. Maybe something to compare to


70 Coronet RT 440+6
64 Dodge 330 - Future Hemi Clone
17 Challenger Hellcat - Green Go Driver
86 Buick T-Type Turbo V-6
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: ECS] #869569
12/07/10 03:25 PM
12/07/10 03:25 PM
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USA
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David Walden
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Quote:

There are NOT separate decals and/or part numbers that differentiate A, B or E body vehicles.




I just wanted to clarify that I was absolutely wrong regarding the above comment. They DID use different numbers! Dan was/is on the right track with the different part numbers and hopefully someone can find a drawing for the A Body style Bees. I will check to see if Dave's car still has the original quarter windows.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: ECS] #869570
12/07/10 03:47 PM
12/07/10 03:47 PM
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Lansing, MI
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Quote:

Quote:

There are NOT separate decals and/or part numbers that differentiate A, B or E body vehicles.




I just wanted to clarify that I was absolutely wrong regarding the above comment. They DID use different numbers! Dan was/is on the right track with the different part numbers and hopefully someone can find a drawing for the A Body style Bees. I will check to see if Dave's car still has the original quarter windows.




From another post on this same subject on 4/21/10 made by member charger rtse:

Decals i dont know who sells them now the new ones i have are very very old.
Details on them are 3505102Right & 3505103Left
Made in usa American decal & mfg co
4100 w fullerton chicago ill 60639
Scat pack club


70 Road Runner 383-4 4 speed FJ5 & black guts
70 Charger R/T 440-4 4 speed FJ5 & white guts
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 70gtx440dana] #869571
12/07/10 04:40 PM
12/07/10 04:40 PM
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west kentucky
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My California RT/SE with no stripe (it came with factory side moldings) has the scat pak bees on the rear quarter windows.......for whatever thats worth. It was my impression this was the standard for 1970 in the way of RT cars.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 6bblgt] #869572
12/08/10 12:02 AM
12/08/10 12:02 AM
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Florida
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cataclysm80 Offline
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Quote:

The STANDARD stripe on a '70 Challenger R/T was V60 (OPTIONAL colors), so if it was ordered without stripes, the stripe DELETE code would be V68. V90 (OPTIONAL colors) was a N/C (no cost/no charge) OPTION.
A66 was STANDARD with V90 (OPTIONAL colors), so if it was ordered without stripes, the stripe DELETE code would be V98.





Oh, I see now. V98 wasn't listed by the R/T model because V98 wasn't available on those cars. That makes perfect sense, Thanks for explaining.

So we'd need to see the V6 Stripe drawing to confirm that the window bee's should also be on V68 stripe delete cars.

Since the 1970 V98 stripe delete cars got the bees, then most likely the 1970 V68 stripe delete cars should have them also, but only the drawing would say for sure.

1971 stripe delete cars are a whole nuther ball game.

Did Faxon ever get around to releasing full sets of the E body drawings yet? (guess not, all I see on their website is 1969 stuff)

Tav

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: ECS] #869573
12/08/10 12:31 AM
12/08/10 12:31 AM
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Florida
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Quote:

There are differences in both the actual drawing and coloring of the decals.

I don't think that my reproductions were necessarily incorrect! They may have been wrong for A and E Body vehicles. Dave Stuart and I both have the original Bees on our Challenger quarters and they look slightly different than the 3505100-1 (or B Body) part numbers. Could this mean that there were actually 3 variations as they pertained to the specific vehicles?




I can understand wanting to have a different set for each body style for use at the factory if the difference is the angle of the cut on the backing to aid in placement on the window.

I don't understand why there would be subtle drawing/coloring differences between the body styles, and I doubt that those differences were intentional. Were all 3 sets made by the same vendor? Maybe the differences are due to different print runs?

Regardless, Kudos to Dave for noticing the differences and providing us with matching reproductions.

Tav

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: cataclysm80] #869574
12/08/10 02:19 PM
12/08/10 02:19 PM
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USA
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Hi Tav! The differences are not "registration" variances in the printing or a "different run" change. There are colors that are not printed in some areas of the NOS decal but ARE present in the assembly line versions. I will show these changes after we manufacture them so we can keep that "slight" advantage over our competition. I have no idea why they added the extra effort and expense to do this. While restoring these cars, I found this same type of redundancy to be evident with quite a few parts.

What will people choose? The NOS version that does not accurately represent the assembly line version or a reproduction that looks exactly like the originals?

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: cataclysm80] #869575
12/08/10 06:20 PM
12/08/10 06:20 PM
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Farmington, CT
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Quote:

Since the 1970 V98 stripe delete cars got the bees, then most likely the 1970 V68 stripe delete cars should have them also, but only the drawing would say for sure.



They came on R/Ts and A66 cars in 1970 whether you had stripes, or not.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: ECS] #869576
12/08/10 07:44 PM
12/08/10 07:44 PM
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Sacramento CA
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Morty426 Offline
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Quote:

Hi Tav! The differences are not "registration" variances in the printing or a "different run" change. There are colors that are not printed in some areas of the NOS decal but ARE present in the assembly line versions. I will show these changes after we manufacture them so we can keep that "slight" advantage over our competition. I have no idea why they added the extra effort and expense to do this. While restoring these cars, I found this same type of redundancy to be evident with quite a few parts.

What will people choose? The NOS version that does not accurately represent the assembly line version or a reproduction that looks exactly like the originals?




Dave,

It's like you say "How much 'wrong' are you willing to accept?"

Now that I know they wrong I'd rather spend the money to get ones that are 'right', specially since this is such a visual part.

M

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: ECS] #869577
12/08/10 11:40 PM
12/08/10 11:40 PM
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Florida
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Quote:

What will people choose? The NOS version that does not accurately represent the assembly line version or a reproduction that looks exactly like the originals?




That IS an interesting situation. I think a lot of people that don't know the difference would choose your reproduction because it's easier to find and probably cheaper than NOS (on top of your excellent reputation for quality). The people "in the know" would probably still choose your assembly line correct reproduction. Looks like you've got a good product on your hands. Thanks for going the extra mile to make it assembly line correct.

If you end up making a different bee decal for each body style, will you also cut the corner off the backing to match the window and aid in placement? (or to save you the work of cutting it, perhaps print a cut line so that the restorer can cut it in the right spot)


I suspect most of the people looking for the NOS version won't know that it's not assembly line correct, so It'll be important for you to have that info in your item description to increase your sales.

After that, I don't suppose very many people would want the NOS ones. Maybe if someone was looking for an aged appearance for a survivor (the kind of person that prefers yellowed plastic over white plastic). OR, Maybe if someone was doing a "day 2" resto where the original owner had placed the bees on a non-scat pack car. OR, Maybe if the NOS price dropped enough due to lack of demand, someone might use them for budget reasons... Just my rambling

I suppose some of the B body guys might still prefer the NOS, since it's correct for their car.

Tav

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: cataclysm80] #869578
12/08/10 11:57 PM
12/08/10 11:57 PM
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Ontario, Canada
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Clunk!

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: FJ5_Fish] #869579
12/09/10 12:08 AM
12/09/10 12:08 AM
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Ontario, Canada
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That was the sound of Frank Mitchells profit margin on his NOS Bee's

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 6bblgt] #869580
12/09/10 12:16 AM
12/09/10 12:16 AM
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Hamtramck, PA
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Quote:

Anyone have pics of their original backing from one of the T/As mentioned?



6346644-Undercarpet5.JPG (187 downloads)
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: Alaskan_TA] #869581
12/09/10 12:16 AM
12/09/10 12:16 AM
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Posts: 29,648
Hamtramck, PA
Alaskan_TA Offline
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.

6346647-Undercarpet19.JPG (236 downloads)
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: Alaskan_TA] #869582
12/09/10 12:22 AM
12/09/10 12:22 AM
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Hamtramck, PA
Alaskan_TA Offline
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Another consideration.....

These cars were driven when new in most cases. If you live in a state (or country) where you need an ice scraper to clear your windows to be able to see to drive, well, ice scrapers were not kind to these stickers.

If your 1970 Scat Pack car does not or did not have them, stay warm.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: Alaskan_TA] #869583
12/09/10 01:01 AM
12/09/10 01:01 AM
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Posts: 4,779
Ontario, Canada
mccannix Offline
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Quote:

Another consideration.....

These cars were driven when new in most cases. If you live in a state (or country) where you need an ice scraper to clear your windows to be able to see to drive, well, ice scrapers were not kind to these stickers.

If your 1970 Scat Pack car does not or did not have them, stay warm.


All the bees I have seen were always on the inside glass of the car.
Most will tell you though, it is not always fun having bees inside your car.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: mccannix] #869584
12/09/10 02:53 AM
12/09/10 02:53 AM
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Hamtramck, PA
Alaskan_TA Offline
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If you did not have frost on the inside of the windows the morning after, you were not using the back seat right.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: Alaskan_TA] #869585
12/09/10 03:13 AM
12/09/10 03:13 AM
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Las Vegas, NV
6bblgt Offline
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(313-SPD) T/A w/blue color shift, (702-SPD) my car's faded red, & a NOS piece

6346899-LHbees.jpg (900 downloads)
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: Alaskan_TA] #869586
12/09/10 10:33 AM
12/09/10 10:33 AM
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Ontario, Canada
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Quote:

If you did not have frost on the inside of the windows the morning after, you were not using the back seat right.


I forgot how cold it gets where you are Barry.
I'd also bet a fair number of your dates were confused by one hand groping them, and the other hand searching the seat for a broadcast sheet.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: mccannix] #869587
12/09/10 01:30 PM
12/09/10 01:30 PM
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Ontario, Canada
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Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: FJ5_Fish] #869588
12/09/10 10:30 PM
12/09/10 10:30 PM
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Hamtramck, PA
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Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: Alaskan_TA] #869589
12/09/10 11:19 PM
12/09/10 11:19 PM
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ct. usa
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Sting Ya Offline
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ct. usa
Is it possible to tell if this ones original on my a 12 ?

6348361-bee001.jpg (352 downloads)
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: Alaskan_TA] #869590
12/09/10 11:19 PM
12/09/10 11:19 PM
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Pittsburgh, PA
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Pittsburgh, PA
I never paid attention to the details between the factory and service decals. Great eye Dave.

Also, Dan, You may have something with the general service issued decals. The decals below are the orig R/T (Oct '69 build) and a so-called "Correct" service replacement purchased back in '71 to replace the scratched bee in the photo. (its # 3505100)

Diff not only with the decal but its obvious that the alignment cut is not for the e-body.

6348363-PC090151.JPG (237 downloads)
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: Sting Ya] #869591
12/09/10 11:19 PM
12/09/10 11:19 PM
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ct. usa
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6348364-bee002.jpg (2602 downloads)
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: Sting Ya] #869592
12/09/10 11:42 PM
12/09/10 11:42 PM
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Las Vegas, NV
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Other than color & registration I see NO difference in the 3 Bees I posted above.

What am I missing??

Does anyone have a clear copy of the Challenger engineering drawing Dave posted a pic of? What info is in the "REVISION" section?

I find it interesting that the Challenger drawing originated in March of '69 (5 months ahead of production), where as the Coronet drawing was drawn in November of '69 (3 months after production began). Who has / Where are the V60 drawings?

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: Sting Ya] #869593
12/09/10 11:48 PM
12/09/10 11:48 PM
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Las Vegas, NV
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Quote:

Is it possible to tell if this ones original on my a 12 ?




No evidence has been presented that shows "BEEs" original to any 1969 cars.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 6bblgt] #869594
12/10/10 01:18 AM
12/10/10 01:18 AM
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David Walden
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Quote:

What am I missing??





Hello Dan! I will posts some side by side comparisons just as soon as I locate the original A Body versions. They may or may not be different from either the E or B Body examples. The B Body guys are lucky because their versions were used for the "default" service replacement items. I guess someone made the decision that the small variations were not important enough (or cost too much) to offer as a replacement. It may not have been an intentional/deliberate effort to print the slight variations. It could have been an inadvertent color change by the plates used to print them or even a vendor thing!

Do most of you want the slight changes to choose from? I am close to buying over 300 of the NOS replacements for the B Bodies (3505100-1) if that is what the market wants. I would appreciate input from you guys since you are the ones we have the privilege to work for and serve! Give me your opinions and thoughts. Thanks.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 1AARCUDA] #869595
12/10/10 08:57 AM
12/10/10 08:57 AM
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Posts: 11,854
Georgetown Ontario Canada
anlauto Offline
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Dave why would you buy 300 NOS ones ? Your company makes new ones, do you plan to offer new ones and/or NOS ones ?


CHECK OUT MY NEW WEB SITE !
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: anlauto] #869596
12/10/10 01:15 PM
12/10/10 01:15 PM
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David Walden
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Quote:

Dave why would you buy 300 NOS ones ? Your company makes new ones, do you plan to offer new ones and/or NOS ones ?




Hi Alan! Some might choose the NOS versions and others the reproductions. It is always a good thing to try and accommodate everyone's wishes whenever possible.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: ECS] #869597
12/10/10 03:53 PM
12/10/10 03:53 PM
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a12superbee Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Dave why would you buy 300 NOS ones ? Your company makes new ones, do you plan to offer new ones and/or NOS ones ?




Hi Alan! Some might choose the NOS versions and others the reproductions. It is always a good thing to try and accommodate everyone's wishes whenever possible.




Or perhaps remove the NOS units from the market in order to drive UP the prices on the repops.
Nah, no one has ever done that before.


I can't afford this. mark
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 6bblgt] #869598
12/10/10 05:30 PM
12/10/10 05:30 PM
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Pittsburgh, PA
Deuces-Wild Offline
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Quote:

Other than color & registration I see NO difference in the 3 Bees I posted above.

What am I missing??

An example of one diff beyond colors: Look at the helmet stripe in the photo I posted.
one is black/white/red/black/white/red while the other is black/red/black/red/black.

I imagine that it is the law of diminishing returns to reproduce the minor diffs and IMHO unless you are looking for the diffs they are too close to notice.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: a12superbee] #869599
12/10/10 05:51 PM
12/10/10 05:51 PM
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Quote:

Or perhaps remove the NOS units from the market in order to drive UP the prices on the repops.
Nah, no one has ever done that before.





Well that is it! You figured it out! You just can't hide everything from the really smart folks!

......or, the place I am getting them from has no impact on the market because they are not being offered for sale to the public. If I don't buy every single one of the 300 left sides, then I can't obtain the twenty right sides he has in order to complete some matching pairs. Imagine that!?! I have to buy 280 left sides that will not have a matching right side just to get 20 complete sets! You are more than welcome to provide the additional $1500 it will take to buy them all since you seem know so much about by devious intentions!


(You should watch what you publicly accuse other people of contemplating! It does nothing more than reveal YOUR thought process and personality traits.)

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: ECS] #869600
12/10/10 05:54 PM
12/10/10 05:54 PM
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Georgetown Ontario Canada
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There is a guy in Ontario selling them too...He has a bunch from what I understand Maybe you could get more of them from him?

Not sure if this is him... http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-classic-cars-NOS-Scat-Pack-decals-W0QQAdIdZ247589781


CHECK OUT MY NEW WEB SITE !
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: Deuces-Wild] #869601
12/10/10 06:04 PM
12/10/10 06:04 PM
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Las Vegas, NV
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Quote:

Quote:

Other than color & registration I see NO difference in the 3 Bees I posted above.

What am I missing??




An example of one diff beyond colors: Look at the helmet stripe in the photo I posted.
one is black/white/red/black/white/red while the other is black/red/black/red/black.

I imagine that it is the law of diminishing returns to reproduce the minor diffs and IMHO unless you are looking for the diffs they are too close to notice.




The "WHITE" you see in your original is either due to "bad registration" low placement of the "RED" or "loss of color" faded "RED".

Last edited by 6bblgt; 12/10/10 07:10 PM.
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 6bblgt] #869602
12/10/10 06:24 PM
12/10/10 06:24 PM
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David Walden
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Quote:

Thw "WHITE" you see in your original is either "bad registration" or "faded - loss of color".




A registration problem is evident (for white) on the outlines of the artwork and not in between lines of the main text. Since the "white" is a complete blanket background of the image, it is impossible to be absent due to a registration error. Only the outside border of the white would expose a registration problem for that particular color. On this decal, the white does not have image or artwork separations. The white is the last hue applied so it flows over the colored layers that have void spots or breaks in the artwork. It completely covers the bright vivid colors that are used in the decal. All reverse printing is done this way. Also notice the white lines in the tires that are missing in the NOS version. There are quite a few others variations I will post as soon as I obtain the other version.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: a12superbee] #869603
12/10/10 06:29 PM
12/10/10 06:29 PM
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DELAWARE
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Dave why would you buy 300 NOS ones ? Your company makes new ones, do you plan to offer new ones and/or NOS ones ?




Hi Alan! Some might choose the NOS versions and others the reproductions. It is always a good thing to try and accommodate everyone's wishes whenever possible.




Or perhaps remove the NOS units from the market in order to drive UP the prices on the repops.
Nah, no one has ever done that before.





have you ever bought anything from dave?
have you ever checked out any of his prices on the items he does sell?

if you have youll know that NONE of his prices can be considered high.

if you dont believe me go ahead and compare the items he sells to others, his will be lower or on par AND we havent even discussed quality and correctness, which ECSs products arent equaled for quality

the govt should feel lucky dave isnt in the money forging business, as im sure he would get that correct too.

im not here back slapping dave just cause hes a friend, but as a consumer of his products who has used his stuff before.

if you think he is trying to drive prices up or make an extra buck think about the transfers he makes that some use on things like vin tags, (hope i worded that right)

it used to be a nightmare to get that transfer,
it couldnt be easier, cheaper or more correct than ECS makes it to get one

the mopar market is a small niche hobby based market for dave (he supplies new car manufactorers with their decals if that helps put it in perspective)
and as crazy as it sounds id bet hes probably more in the mopar resto decals as a challenge than a money maker

lets just be thankful that daves puts the effort into making and suppling the items he does correctly for our cars, and not make accusations unless you have seen him prior do anything to "drive up" prices on his wares

thank you
tony

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: ECS] #869604
12/10/10 07:05 PM
12/10/10 07:05 PM
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Posts: 17,507
Las Vegas, NV
6bblgt Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

The "WHITE" you see in your original is either "bad registration" or "faded - loss of color".




A registration problem is evident (for white) on the outlines of the artwork and not in between lines of the main text. Since the "white" is a complete blanket background of the image, it is impossible to be absent due to a registration error. Only the outside border of the white would expose a registration problem for that particular color. On this decal, the white does not have image or artwork separations. The white is the last hue applied so it flows over the colored layers that have void spots or breaks in the artwork. It completely covers the bright vivid colors that are used in the decal. All reverse printing is done this way. Also notice the white lines in the tires that are missing in the NOS version. There are quite a few others variations I will post as soon as I obtain the other version.




I didn't say white had the registration problem & wouldn't white be the FIRST "hue" put down not the last as it is printed on the "backing" not the "face liner"?

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 6bblgt] #869605
12/10/10 07:50 PM
12/10/10 07:50 PM
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ECS Offline
David Walden
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Quote:

I didn't say white had the registration problem & wouldn't white be the FIRST "hue" put down not the last as it is printed on the "backing" not the "face liner"?





It is just the opposite with reverse printing which is how these decals were printed. Think of it like this Dan. If you wanted to sign your name (in marker) on the inside of your door glass so you could read it while standing outside of the car, you would have to sign it in a reverse fashion. If not, it would appear backwards as you looked at it from the outside of the car. If you wanted to have a white background behind your signature, would you place the white before you signed your name or after you signed it? If you place the white "before" signing your name, the signature would not show up when you observed it from the outside of the car. The white is the last color printed on all of these decals. When you peel them from the adhesive backer and apply them, the solid white layer can be seen from the inside of the car . The adhesive is on the printed side of the artwork.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: ECS] #869606
12/10/10 10:24 PM
12/10/10 10:24 PM
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Not2farfromNashville, TN
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Plymouth do a similar thing with a Rapid Transit sticker?

One thing no one has ever shown me is an A/C sticker like the one on my Duster. It is the same size and style as the Chrysler Airtemp. Mine says "Air conditioned by Chrysler Parts Division." Mine has dealer added air. They stuck it on the quarter window passenger side.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: Rug_Trucker] #869607
12/10/10 11:29 PM
12/10/10 11:29 PM
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colorado
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a12superbee Offline
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Now now, my comment would in fact be, a very smart business decision.
Companies do it everyday, buy other companies or remaining stock just to remove it/them from the marketplace.
All perfectly legal. Duh.

Just because I might occasionally figure out how something works doesn't meant I'd actually use it, make it or exploit it.
Shows 'my personality traits'? Please.
Nor did 'accuse' anyone of anything. Go bully someone else.

And, just to 'prove' (as if I need to) what a sport I am, I have a pair of the nos b body bees and I'll offer them to the first person to tell me they have a need and would like them. I don't need them.
Even you Dave.
I'll even pay for the stamp.


I can't afford this. mark
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: a12superbee] #869608
12/11/10 12:08 AM
12/11/10 12:08 AM
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colorado
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a12superbee Offline
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We have a winner!
Thanks for playing!


I can't afford this. mark
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: a12superbee] #869609
12/11/10 12:48 AM
12/11/10 12:48 AM
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ECS Offline
David Walden
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Quote:

And, just to 'prove' (as if I need to) what a sport I am, I have a pair of the nos b body bees and I'll offer them to the first person to tell me they have a need and would like them. I don't need them.
Even you Dave.





Dog gone it! I missed out again. I was going to buy your two decals, resell them for a small fortune and then go buy a Ferrari or something. If it weren't for you exposing my other manipulating scheme, I was going to be able to buy a Beach front home in Tahiti with the MILLIONS of $$$$$ I would have made from scarfing up those 300 little NOS window Bees and ruling the Mopar World! Oh well.....there goes Christmas for the kids. Why did you have to go and ruin my hopes for becoming a successful business tycoon?!

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: ECS] #869610
12/11/10 02:09 AM
12/11/10 02:09 AM
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a12superbee Offline
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Touchy. You really are looking to deeply here.


Any idea why the vendor would have so many more of one side?


I can't afford this. mark
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: ECS] #869611
12/11/10 02:36 AM
12/11/10 02:36 AM
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Las Vegas, NV
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Quote:

Quote:

I didn't say white had the registration problem & wouldn't white be the FIRST "hue" put down not the last as it is printed on the "backing" not the "face liner"?





It is just the opposite with reverse printing which is how these decals were printed. Think of it like this Dan. If you wanted to sign your name (in marker) on the inside of your door glass so you could read it while standing outside of the car, you would have to sign it in a reverse fashion. If not, it would appear backwards as you looked at it from the outside of the car. If you wanted to have a white background behind your signature, would you place the white before you signed your name or after you signed it? If you place the white "before" signing your name, the signature would not show up when you observed it from the outside of the car. The white is the last color printed on all of these decals. When you peel them from the adhesive backer and apply them, the solid white layer can be seen from the inside of the car . The adhesive is on the printed side of the artwork.




My bad! I'm looking at this thing as if it was similar to a "water slide decal" not a pressure sensitive "sticker". I NOW see it was built from the glass-surface-in.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: a12superbee] #869612
12/11/10 03:54 PM
12/11/10 03:54 PM
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ECS Offline
David Walden
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Quote:

......You really are looking to deeply here..... Any idea why the vendor would have so many more of one side?






Isn't that ironic? Your (above) statement was exactly what I thought when I read your view regarding my purpose for purchasing the inventory of decals. Remember this?
"Or perhaps remove the NOS units from the market in order to drive UP the prices on the repops."

To answer your other question, I have no idea or opinion as to why this individual has so many of just one side. I don't make it a practice to criticize or judge any scenario without having at least some knowledge about the situation! (Where did I say that I was getting them from another "vendor"?) Maybe you could tell us why he has them all!

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: ECS] #869613
12/11/10 04:31 PM
12/11/10 04:31 PM
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Georgetown Ontario Canada
anlauto Offline
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I find it very interesting that there are so many "NOS" ones of these decals floating around some forty years later...

It's not like it would have been a highly serviceable part...If they faded, wore out or got damaged were people really that bothered by it to replace them forty years ago...

Did the poor vendor printing them just run off a couple of extra thousand for the heck of it? They decide to sell them to re-coup some of their money?

Did thousands of them find their way out of the assembly plants in lunch pails....

So many unanswered questions


CHECK OUT MY NEW WEB SITE !
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: anlauto] #869614
12/11/10 05:59 PM
12/11/10 05:59 PM
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These were small items and did not take up much inventory space. Like many things that are manufactured and serviced, the demand does not always equal the anticipated supply. The economies of scale sometimes justify a larger number printed in contrast to a smaller amount. They larger the run, the better the price! Chrysler may have opted to have a larger manufacturing run in order to lower the overall "per piece" cost. They were required to manufacture a certain percentage (quantity) in relation to the applicable vehicles that were sold. The "service" quantity may have not equaled the actual demand. Those decals were not in an area that was prone to abuse or excessive wear. The result for these items would have been excess inventory.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: ECS] #869615
12/11/10 06:37 PM
12/11/10 06:37 PM
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Quote:

(Where did I say that I was getting them from another "vendor"?)




Right here;

Quote:


......or, the place I am getting them from has no impact on the market because they are not being offered for sale to the public. If I don't buy every single one of the 300 left sides, then I can't obtain the twenty right sides he has in order to complete some matching pairs. Imagine that!?! I have to buy 280 left sides that will not have a matching right side just to get 20 complete sets!




Make your last indignant response to me, get it over with, and I shall consider this resolved.

I did find something worthwhile to do with the set I had though. Win for me.


I can't afford this. mark
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: a12superbee] #869616
12/11/10 06:42 PM
12/11/10 06:42 PM
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Sunny South Florida
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damn, now i want a pair, for my latest project. you guys created a "need", where there wasnt one before. okies, who's got a set for me?


"When Tyranny Becomes Law, Rebellion Becomes Duty"

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: a12superbee] #869617
12/11/10 08:50 PM
12/11/10 08:50 PM
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ECS Offline
David Walden
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Quote:


Right here;


......or, the place I am getting them from has no impact on the market because they are not being offered for sale to the public. If I don't buy every single one of the 300 left sides, then I can't obtain the twenty right sides he has in order to complete some matching pairs. Imagine that!?! I have to buy 280 left sides that will not have a matching right side just to get 20 complete sets!





I still can't find where I ever stated that I was getting them from a "vendor". Can you please point out the word "vendor" from the quote you chose to prove your point? Did you not understand the part where I said they WERE NOT offered for sale to the public? Did I really need to specify that they were coming from an individual who bought them (and stashed them away) many years ago? Would that have made any difference to you?

I apologize that you feel bullied by me RESPONDING to your initial and instigating remark. Don't expect someone to blow you a kiss when you start things off with a slap in the face.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: ECS] #869618
12/12/10 10:09 AM
12/12/10 10:09 AM
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Sacramento CA
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Morty426 Offline
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Is someone seriously questioning Chrysler ordering one side far greater than the other?

Obviously they have never looked for NOS Challenger side marker lights or headlamp bezels.

Dave - Please post the Bee differences when you have the final set. Inquiring minds want to know.

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: Morty426] #869619
12/12/10 10:46 AM
12/12/10 10:46 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 412
Jackson, Mississippi
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I have used quite a few of the ECS decals and other "goodies" on some cars that I have restored. I love, what I call, "little stupid details". When you pop the hood of a freshly restored car and you see little decals wrapped around the harness and battery cables... they are easy to overlook, but when someone notices them, it makes the car that much better.

Anyways Dave, to answer your question... if I were to choose between the NOS replacement Bees versus the "factory correct" repro Bees, I would go with the correct repros. Just out of curiosity, how much would each set run?

Justin
"CornDog"


1966 Dodge Charger
1968 Plymouth Satellite (Un-Restored "Survivor")
1969 Dodge Charger (W.B. General Lee)
1969 Dodge Charger (Future DMCL Clone)
1969 Dodge Super Bee, 383 4spd
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: ECS] #869620
12/12/10 12:01 PM
12/12/10 12:01 PM
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west kentucky
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gomangoRTSE Offline
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west kentucky
I have two of the original decals on my rear qtr windows, but after reading this drama, dang if Im not thinking about replacing them. I guess I better go out and take a look at them to see if they really need replaced. The quirk above about creating a need has made me hunger for two and I may not even need them....LOL.

Still $25 each I think from the place in Canada who has the NOS is rich..... Yea I mean rich. I can think of a hundred more important needs I have for my 70 RT/SE than $25 for a single small decal.....dayuuum!

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: CornDogsCharger] #869621
12/12/10 05:54 PM
12/12/10 05:54 PM
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ECS Offline
David Walden
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Quote:

Just out of curiosity, how much would each set run?





About $10-$12 for both sides. The variations will not change the cost. (A,B or E Body) They will all "bee" the same price!

Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: ECS] #869622
12/12/10 08:12 PM
12/12/10 08:12 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 412
Jackson, Mississippi
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mopar
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Well then I will "Bee" interested in a set of the factory correct decals when they are available!

Justin
"CornDog"


1966 Dodge Charger
1968 Plymouth Satellite (Un-Restored "Survivor")
1969 Dodge Charger (W.B. General Lee)
1969 Dodge Charger (Future DMCL Clone)
1969 Dodge Super Bee, 383 4spd
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: CornDogsCharger] #869623
12/13/10 12:56 AM
12/13/10 12:56 AM
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Las Vegas, NV
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a "lunch pail" Challenger "BEE"

6354554-DSC03411[1].JPG (298 downloads)
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 6bblgt] #869624
12/13/10 12:57 AM
12/13/10 12:57 AM
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3505 103 LH DODGE e-body

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Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 6bblgt] #869625
12/13/10 12:59 AM
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Posts: 17,507
Las Vegas, NV
held up on "wrong" side

6354564-DSC03416[1].JPG (286 downloads)
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window? [Re: 6bblgt] #869626
10/09/11 05:55 AM
10/09/11 05:55 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,549
Sweden
71redcuda Offline
pro stock
71redcuda  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,549
Sweden
How tall is these decals,2 or 3 inches?

And should they be installed from the inside or outside the window?

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