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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: BeeFreak]
#848778
11/08/10 02:21 PM
11/08/10 02:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Not sure on the budget. Can you do a stroker in the 3k or less range?
I don't think you could unless you got the crank rods and pistons for free .
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: Mopar Ron]
#848779
11/08/10 02:51 PM
11/08/10 02:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 283
Motor City
BeeFreak
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 283
Motor City
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Quote:
not sure if this is what your looking for but here is a pretty good 2 page read 450 HP ain't to bad  Ron...
http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/mopp_0209_383_engine_restore/index.html
That is a cool article. Thanks!
I guess I should list a few things I have Already.
I have the complete stock 70 383 Hp Engine that needs rebuilt.
A Weiand dual plane Aluminum intake
750 Holley DP Carb
Mopar Electronic ignition
I have seen these advertised for about 2k. Anyone use one or know of someone that has?
383 >> 438. (3.75" stroke/6.760" rod) Approximate Bobweight: 2100
This kit takes a 440 crank and rods, and stuff's 'em into a 383. The result is a 438. This one's a high revving screamer (just like the factory 383's were - but our parts are light years ahead of the old factory stuff,) with all new parts capable of 1000+ horsepower. The low deck, 3.750" stroke version of our Platinum Series crank used in this kit has the counterweights finished at the smaller "B" engine size, to ensure they will drop right into the block with no counterweight clearancing issues. Depending on the block used, many of customers find this kit drops right in with no modifications whatsoever! We now offer fully chamfered "B" engine main bearings as an available upgrade! We keep all the kits listed below normally on our our shelf and ready to ship, usually within 24 hours!
Additional Kit options:
Upgrade to I beam rods and/or ARP2000 rod bolts: $70
Upgrade to Chamfered "B" engine main bearings: $50
383 >> 438. (3.750" stroke/6.760" rod) Stroker Kits Available:
Bore Size: Dish (-) or Dome (+) CC's Compression Height: Distance Below Deck: 65CC 72CC 75CC 78CC 84CC 86CC 88CC Kit Part#:
4.280"
(.030 over) -4
(Flat-top) 1.320" -.025" 11.45 10.65 10.34 10.06 9.53 9.37 9.22 383.438.5040
4.310"
(.060 over) -4
(Flat-top) 1.320" -.025" 11.58 10.78 10.47 10.18 9.65 9.48 9.32 383.438.5050
4.280"
(.030 over) -20
(Dish) 1.320" -.025" 9.79 9.22 9.00 8.78 8.39 8.27 8.15 383.438.5042
4.310"
(.060 over) -20
(Dish) 1.320" -.025" 9.90 9.32 9.10 8.89 8.49 8.37 8.25 383.438.5052
.
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: JohnRR]
#848783
11/08/10 04:12 PM
11/08/10 04:12 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,179
Atco NJ
DJVCuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,179
Atco NJ
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i did one a few years ago - 3.23's and a 4 speed : kb 400 pistons stock rebuild on the heads crane cam 4.80 lift intake 494 lift exhaust - I cant go to the web site anymore for more specs..lol anyway other then those 2 changes the rebuild was stock and it ran mid 13's @ 104 in an E body. Keep in mind it needs to be blueprinted, the deck heights and head volumes need to be corrected. here are 2 vids of the car in action At the track In the car VID
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: JohnRR]
#848788
11/08/10 08:41 PM
11/08/10 08:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 931
dulcich
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 931
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Quote:
Quote:
not sure if this is what your looking for but here is a pretty good 2 page read 450 HP ain't to bad Ron...
http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/mopp_0209_383_engine_restore/index.html
This is the article , just take the HP numbers with a grain of salt , time that was done that dyno was known to be giving out INFLATED numbers .
Tell me more, RR John. Maybe if your EMC engine would have actually run you could have had some first hand experience on said dyno... but it failed and you chumps never had the guts to try again. Well, anyway it saved you being embarrassed by my smoking your azz.
In usual fashion, you are basing your comments on nothing. The engine made about 335 hp stock, about its rated HP.
-dulcich
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: dulcich]
#848789
11/08/10 09:25 PM
11/08/10 09:25 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,179
Atco NJ
DJVCuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,179
Atco NJ
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
not sure if this is what your looking for but here is a pretty good 2 page read 450 HP ain't to bad Ron...
http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/mopp_0209_383_engine_restore/index.html
This is the article , just take the HP numbers with a grain of salt , time that was done that dyno was known to be giving out INFLATED numbers .
Tell me more, RR John. Maybe if your EMC engine would have actually run you could have had some first hand experience on said dyno... but it failed and you chumps never had the guts to try again. Well, anyway it saved you being embarrassed by my smoking your azz.
In usual fashion, you are basing your comments on nothing. The engine made about 335 hp stock, about its rated HP.
-dulcich
JohnRR - 1
Dulcich - 1
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: furious70]
#848790
11/08/10 09:41 PM
11/08/10 09:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
not sure if this is what your looking for but here is a pretty good 2 page read 450 HP ain't to bad Ron...
http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/mopp_0209_383_engine_restore/index.html
This is the article , just take the HP numbers with a grain of salt , time that was done that dyno was known to be giving out INFLATED numbers .
Regardless, the delta vs the bone stock engine dyno'ed on the same machine serves as useful information. My 69 Coronet ran 13.20's with a stock magnum 383 with bolt on torker, 750dp, and headers. 3.91's and 8" cheater slicks with a 3000 stall.
I don't want to bring out the BS meter but bone stock? as in a 383 cam, stock from the factory pistons, heads and all you did was add a convert (huge help) headers, intake carb and gears? 13.20? Is that corrected?
I had a built 383 w/ real 10.5:1 compression, balanced blue printed engine, ported 915 heads, 509 cam, 3200 stall, torker, 3.91's and a 750DP in a 69 Charger and the best et I saw was 13.11 @ 104..granted I was on BFG's but 13.20's w/ just bolt ons is really good.
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: scatpacktom]
#848793
11/08/10 10:18 PM
11/08/10 10:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Years ago Andy Caldwell ran low 13s with a pure stock blueprinted 383 in a 4000 lb 70 Super Bee.
again what's pure stock? I call pure stock something that is exactly the same as it came off the showroom floor. Not something that has been to a machine shop and has been decked, squared, blue printed, re-balanced, had a valve job....and so on.
Only thing I had like that was a 70 Charger S/E 48k miles, new rings, bearings, t-chain. Stock heads, intake, 4bbl, 4 speed w/ 3.23 gears and factory dual exhaust went 14.88
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: BeeFreak]
#848797
11/08/10 11:20 PM
11/08/10 11:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,936
Holly/MI
Dean_Kuzluzski
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,936
Holly/MI
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The factory stroke for a 383 is 3.38. Relatively short for any big block. Point is, rpm's are required.
My 69 Rr ran 13.79 at 102 with a 3.91 gear. This had a 284/484 cam, TM-6 single-plane, 750 AFB, closed chamber "door stop" 516's with the 1.60 exh.valve.
I added the 1.74 exh. valve, template/bowl ported the heads, 3" exhaust and went to a 4.30 gear. 13.08 at 106. A crappy 1.99 60 ft.
This was all with an unknown seriously ragged on shortblock. Factory Mopar HP motors didn't really have the compression as advertised. Good compression makes a better air pump at ALL rpm's.
Personally, I'd do the 3.75 RB crank stroker deal to work with your 3.55 gear. ALSO, check into what guys here refer to as a "quench" motor and make it a priority. Then you can manage some real compression...........hence, power.
R.I.P.- Gary "Coop" Davis 02/09/68-05/13/04
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: JoesMopar]
#848801
11/09/10 01:36 AM
11/09/10 01:36 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 390
kentucky
superbyrd
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 390
kentucky
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seriously,with the parts you mentioned you already have,a fresh rebuild on your shortblock with a quality set of cast pistons(if it needs boring),freshening of the heads,a comp cams extreme energy series cam and springs,and you will have no problem getting your car into easy mid 13's and faster. and that is on a "budget" .a normal working guys budget (that covers 95% of the folks definition of budget on here) not jay leno's budget. if you really think you need stealth aluminum heads,an expensive stroker package,a super cool quench build,etc,etc,  to put together a good,solid,relaible,budget 383 to put your car in the mid 13's.........please,please,please stop drinking the bong water......
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: BeeFreak]
#848802
11/09/10 04:29 AM
11/09/10 04:29 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
master
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master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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I think most budget performance rebuilds are based on using Hypereutectic flat top pistons because of the lower cost. Keith Black and speed pro have several choices, but the speed pro pistons do not have valve reliefs, and may sit further below the deck (low compression), so the KB pistons will usually be you best choice in the affordable priced pistons. Next is cylinder heads. This is where the power is made, and throwing a bunch of money and time at the old stock heads is not the best bang for the buck. The two most common choices are the Edelbrock RPM or 440 Stealth heads (these also require reduced wrenching head bolts.) For intakes, the Edelbrock RPM works with a wide range of cams and applications. A mild 383 usually only needs a 750 cfm carb.
1-3/4" Headers and 2.5" to 3" exhaust are common.
The stock rod bolts are the weakest link, and need to be replaced if re-using the stock rods.
If you have the extra money for a stroker kit (about $1200-$1500 above the cost of the stock stroke rebuild), you get a new and stronger crank, rods, and forged pistons. If doing a stroker, do the whole kit because most of the affordable pistons are designed to use the aftermarket rods with the 0.990" piston pin, and some of the cranks /rods are designed for the 2.20" rod bearings.
The cam needs to be chosen that works with your intended application, compression ratio, and fuel octane, but for a mild 383 it will usually be something like the XE268 or Voodo 60303 (also a 268 duration cam) if using mild gear/converter/compression. You can go with a larger cam with higher stall, etc.
With the stroker you will usually end up with higher compression, and alot more displacement (496 cid with a 4.25" stroke), so the engine will want a larger cam and it will make more power.
The stroker will want at least an 850 cfm carb and 1-7/8" to 2" headers.
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: scatpacktom]
#848803
11/09/10 09:12 AM
11/09/10 09:12 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Apparently "Pure Stock" is over a second faster than what you call pure stock. 
true, the 3.23's and 14" bias plys didn't help.
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: dulcich]
#848805
11/09/10 09:58 AM
11/09/10 09:58 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
not sure if this is what your looking for but here is a pretty good 2 page read 450 HP ain't to bad Ron...
http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/mopp_0209_383_engine_restore/index.html
This is the article , just take the HP numbers with a grain of salt , time that was done that dyno was known to be giving out INFLATED numbers .
Tell me more, RR John. Maybe if your EMC engine would have actually run you could have had some first hand experience on said dyno... but it failed and you chumps never had the guts to try again. Well, anyway it saved you being embarrassed by my smoking your azz.
In usual fashion, you are basing your comments on nothing. The engine made about 335 hp stock, about its rated HP.
-dulcich
Steve maybe you need to brush up on your reading because the engine did run and make it to the prelims, The EMC changed the rules and only took 3 engines from the Detroit prelim instead of 5 as stated in the contest outline.
Does belittling myself and the Moparts team on the public forum make you feel like more of a man?
Some of the team thought of doing another contest but with how poorly run the challenge was it was decided it made no sense to waste the money to do it again.
By poorly run I mean making rule changes and getting them to contestants 1 month before the prelims, almost 3 months after the contest started .
Last edited by JohnRR; 11/09/10 10:22 AM.
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: dulcich]
#848806
11/09/10 10:06 AM
11/09/10 10:06 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
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Quote:
On the other post, I take it personally when someone bags on me on my job that I put a lot of work into.
-dulcich
Steve , I'm not bagging on you or your job, I'm bagging on the WESTECH DYNO, I remember before the EMC challange that you would DEFEND the numbers coming from that dyno when they were questioned on this site saying they were accurate. After the 03 EMC challenge it came out that the dyno was giving inflated numbers, I remember reading it in one of the mags, not sure if it was Hot Rod or Popular Hot Rodding , but it seemed to be enough to cause the EMC to stop using it and switch facilities? Though I can see the switch to the making more sense, from a money and logistics/time standpoint .
Last edited by JohnRR; 11/10/10 09:40 AM.
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: superbyrd]
#848807
11/09/10 10:17 AM
11/09/10 10:17 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
seriously,with the parts you mentioned you already have,a fresh rebuild on your shortblock with a quality set of cast pistons(if it needs boring),freshening of the heads,a comp cams extreme energy series cam and springs,and you will have no problem getting your car into easy mid 13's and faster. and that is on a "budget" .a normal working guys budget (that covers 95% of the folks definition of budget on here)
not jay leno's budget.
if you really think you need stealth aluminum heads,an expensive stroker package,a super cool quench build,etc,etc, to put together a good,solid,relaible,budget 383 to put your car in the mid 13's.........please,please,please stop drinking the bong water......
Maybe you need to change your bong water, CAST PISTONS ???
383's need compression and the cast pistons available are so far down in the hole that getting compression with one will require expensive machining of the block, heads and intake to make it all fit together.
My Dart went 14.18 at 98.7mph at the PS drags in '06 weighing 3600lbs, stock 56k long block right down to the original plastic coated cam gear and timing chain that was almost loose enough to pull the chain off without removing the gears. I came back home and it went 99.7 with no changes at all except for being at a track near sea level. Only thing not stock on the car was the 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust pipes , no crossover. No it wasn't a barn burner but I felt it had 13's in it if I could have gotten it to 60ft better and with a fresh timing chain, but I never got the chance to do that.
The new engine only major change is going to be getting the compression up to the advertised compression ratio of 10.0 which is easily attainable on a stock 68-69 383 HP shortblock by cutting the heads to 80cc.
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: 451Mopar]
#848808
11/09/10 10:26 AM
11/09/10 10:26 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
I think most budget performance rebuilds are based on using Hypereutectic flat top pistons because of the lower cost. Keith Black and speed pro have several choices, but the speed pro pistons do not have valve reliefs, and may sit further below the deck (low compression), so the KB pistons will usually be you best choice in the affordable priced pistons.
The Speedpros do not have valve reliefs but they have a taller CH than the KB pistons, the bad thing about the KB's is their CANYON like valve trough at 5cc(6cc??, one needs to use the KB400 with the DOME to get anything that resembles compression into a 383.
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: BeeFreak]
#848810
11/09/10 11:33 AM
11/09/10 11:33 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 390
kentucky
superbyrd
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 390
kentucky
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Quote:
My Dart went 14.18 at 98.7mph at the PS drags in '06 weighing 3600lbs, stock 56k long block right down to the original plastic coated cam gear and timing chain that was almost loose enough to pull the chain off without removing the gears. I came back home and it went 99.7 with no changes at all except for being at a track near sea level. Only thing not stock on the car was the 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust pipes , no crossover. No it wasn't a barn burner but I felt it had 13's in it if I could have gotten it to 60ft better and with a fresh timing chain, but I never got the chance to do that.
wow john,um,thats,um,impressieve....
your advice is well founded and always appreciated. to the original poster,he is right.
my 67 coronet at 3700#s,100,000+ mile 400,boat anchor unported 516 heads,comp XE268,cheapie summit headers,performer RPM,750 holley,2 1/2 non-mandrel bent duals,2400 converter,3.55's,run on 255/60/15 drag radials, struggles to lay down 12.94-13.10 (well over 50 time slips to prove it) with the pistons .115 in the hole. yeah,what ever you do poster,make sure and get all the compression you can get.it's incredibly cruicial. my coronet sure needs it. which,consequently,would easily hand that dart,it's azz. 
Last edited by superbyrd; 11/09/10 11:36 AM.
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: superbyrd]
#848812
11/09/10 12:55 PM
11/09/10 12:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
My Dart went 14.18 at 98.7mph at the PS drags in '06 weighing 3600lbs, stock 56k long block right down to the original plastic coated cam gear and timing chain that was almost loose enough to pull the chain off without removing the gears. I came back home and it went 99.7 with no changes at all except for being at a track near sea level. Only thing not stock on the car was the 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust pipes , no crossover. No it wasn't a barn burner but I felt it had 13's in it if I could have gotten it to 60ft better and with a fresh timing chain, but I never got the chance to do that.
wow john,um,thats,um,impressieve....
your advice is well founded and always appreciated. to the original poster,he is right.
my 67 coronet at 3700#s,100,000+ mile 400,boat anchor unported 516 heads,comp XE268,cheapie summit headers,performer RPM,750 holley,2 1/2 non-mandrel bent duals,2400 converter,3.55's,run on 255/60/15 drag radials, struggles to lay down 12.94-13.10 (well over 50 time slips to prove it) with the pistons .115 in the hole. yeah,what ever you do poster,make sure and get all the compression you can get.it's incredibly cruicial. my coronet sure needs it. which,consequently,would easily hand that dart,it's azz.
I don't think it's impressive either, your sarcasm is noted. I wasn't posting it to impress, people were throwing out pure stock numbers and I just put that out as a comparison as to what an actual FACTORY built engine produced in my factory big block Dart.
I sure hope your Coronet would hand my car it's azz considering the modifications it has , if it didn't then something, given your expertise and knowledge, is surely lacking .
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: JohnRR]
#848813
11/09/10 03:20 PM
11/09/10 03:20 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 390
kentucky
superbyrd
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 390
kentucky
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just pointing out the obvious. no aluminum heads,no expensive stroker kit,no special quench compression build(for that matter not much compression at all). high 12's,with only good old fashioned,worthless,low-tech parts that,according to all the magazine gurus,and so-called "experts",swear,preach and contend,that do not work.
if you have the money to spend,the advancements in design,materials,and engineering,have far surpassed the old parts. building a 600HP pump gas motor,that will daily drive is cake,where it wasn't 20 years ago.
just most don't have that money to spend,so,those parts are still out of reach. when i read in a posters thread,"budget",basic rebuild,just a reliable engine without breaking the bank,i try and keep my advice within those confines. it's alot of you guys that start throwing out all the high dollar (and un-needed) expert advice.
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: BeeFreak]
#848815
11/09/10 04:36 PM
11/09/10 04:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
I don't know what to think anymore. I don't know what a budget minded engine really is. I figure I can throw maybe 3k at the engine (bottom end) or a little more. I have the complete iron head engine that needs rebuilt, aluminum intake and 750 DP Holley to start with. I really don't want headers on the car I don't think. I plan on boring the engine .30 over. I don't want a slug car that gets whipped by everyone of my buddies cars. They all run slightly warmed 440's that seem to go pretty good. None run 12's though. That's what worries me. How possibly would the same mods to a 383 that most do to a 440 let it run with it. Just doesn't seem right. That's where I started to think about the stroker if it could be done in the price range. I don't take the car to the track. I just run it around town and go on some couple hundred mile cruises every year so it needs to be reliable.
you are right you are not going to run with a 440 with the same mods. That said you can make a 383 run very well. And for 3k you should be able to build a nice running and relable engine. If you don't want to run headers that's fine but you are leaving some hp on the table. Like I said way back all you need is a standard rebuid kit and a mild cam. I suggest the Summit 488 it will work well with what you have. The most important thing is going to be your piston choice. Make sure you get it over 9:1 and you'll be fine. It should run 13's pretty easy.
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: BeeFreak]
#848816
11/09/10 05:03 PM
11/09/10 05:03 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
master
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master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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If I get some time I will check out the costs/estimated power. I tend to over spec the requirements because it takes alot more to run 13's at a mile high altitude than at sea-level. Most 15-seconds cars here run 13's at sea-level.
The stroker kits are around $2K, but come with rings, bearings, forged pistons, 4340 crank and rods, ARP rod bolts, and are supposed to be balanced too.
Because rebuilding your stock stroke engine will require pistons, rings, bearings, rod bolts, and balancing, The actual difference in the cost of the stroker is maybe $1,200, (I'll try running the cost numbers later) so it really is the better bang for the buck (stronger components, and 100+ extra CID displacement) if you can afford it. Not to mention the extra displacement is going to make a whole bunch more power and torque.
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: BeeFreak]
#848818
11/09/10 07:28 PM
11/09/10 07:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,531
Jacksonville, FL
Chris2581
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,531
Jacksonville, FL
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FWIW...The 70 Road Runner we still have was run with the STOCK OEM factory short block,heads were cut-.030 and were fitted with street hemi springs.Cam was(and still is) the old street hemi grind,750 Holley DP,TM-6,1 7/8th's Hooker headers,4-speed and 4.10 gears.Timing chain was double roller Zoom and we used a Zoom clutch assy.Tires- M&H stocker tires(I think they are the musclecar line up now) 10.5x28 on 8" wheel,Car ran 12.70's all day long.The fuel pump was a Holley mechanical with a red Holley electric out back with the stock 5/16ths line.Later we went with a 727,and a 4.88 Dana,larger headers and some other stuff(engine stayed the same) and eventually ran 12.25 in Atlanta on a 30 degree night.
Nautilus Racing-
We use Superformance gaskets and Turbo Action converters/products.
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: Chris2581]
#848819
11/09/10 10:08 PM
11/09/10 10:08 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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FWIW, i built my 493 for 5k with carefull shopping and quality machine work. figure it was around 600 hp.
1600 for rotating assembly
2000 for machine work and cam
1200 for edel heads
200 for oiling system
ran 10.50s at 126
this was back in 03 though, but i think i could do it again
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: sixpackgut]
#848821
11/09/10 11:34 PM
11/09/10 11:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 283
Motor City
BeeFreak
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 283
Motor City
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Quote:
FWIW, i built my 493 for 5k with carefull shopping and quality machine work. figure it was around 600 hp.
1600 for rotating assembly
2000 for machine work and cam
1200 for edel heads
200 for oiling system
ran 10.50s at 126
this was back in 03 though, but i think i could do it again
So where did you get your rotating assembly and heads?
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: JoesMopar]
#848823
11/10/10 12:47 AM
11/10/10 12:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
ahy
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
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Quote:
I see alot of people throwing around head and piston combos. With an open chamber head, aren't you suppose to use a stepped or domed piston to get complete combustion whereas a closed chamber head uses a flat top?
I plan on re-using the 906's with minimal headwork, so is a flat top with a zero deck better or a KB 400 with the dome better?
Yes... to get "quench" with open chamber heads a stepped or dome piston is needed. Quench means the piston almost touches the head... .040" clearance is desired. The KB400 piston could probably support this and would need machined to fit the head for each cylinder. Its time consuming but supports higher CR and better combustion on pump fuel. Worth it? you decide. If you want the best running engine with stock displacement and heads yes.
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: JohnRR]
#848824
11/10/10 01:02 AM
11/10/10 01:02 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 931
dulcich
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 931
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Quote:
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On the other post, I take it personally when someone bags on me on my job that I put a lot of work into.
-dulcich
Steve , I'm not bagging on you or your job, I'm bagging on the WESTECH DYNO, I remember before the EMC challange that you would DEFEND the numbers coming from that dyno when they were questioned on this site saying they were accurate. After the 03 EMC challenge it came out that the dyno was giving inflated numbers, I remember reading it in one of the mags, not sure if it was Hot Rod or Popular Hot Rodding , but it seemed to be enough to cause the EMC to stop using it and switch to the COMP facility? Though I can see the switch to the COMP facility making more sense, from a money and logistics/time standpoint .
John, sorry to bag on your EMC engine. I apologize. To me, the same kind of negativity gets kind of old too. I can see from your response that you don't welcome it when it hits close to home. It seems pretty pervasive on this site from some members.
The Westech dyno at the time of the Challenge had a "bubble" in the barometer. The barometer there is a very high-end scientific instrument, so no one expected this kind of problem. Steve Brule at Westech is a textbook obsessive/compulsive, and when it dropped a few months later, he freaked. With his personality, he notices everything, and every detail gnaws on him. He actually had it sent in to a scientific lab after that event.
Consider the fact that Harold Bettes from Superflow was on site, and was all over the dynos, not just for EMC that year, but right from day one. Harold is as straight up as you can get, and I trust him to know the dynos of the company he worked for at the time. His reputation in the industry is impeccable. I really don't like it when someone casts aspersions like they have some insight, when really they have none at all, like you tend to do, on guys I respect.
I have my own dyno now anyway, and will complete the installation in a few weeks, so it doesn't really matter to me that much, but those guys don't deserve the attitude you show. I probably over-reacted, but I have done lots of work with those guys for many years, and it is work. BTW, the EMC has never been held at COMP, so you have your info wrong there too, but state it as fact. Also, FYI, the selection of the host facility of first World, then UNOH was the result much broader considerations than you seem to reason in your mind, again based on what I don't know.
-dulcich
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: ahy]
#848825
11/10/10 01:05 AM
11/10/10 01:05 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,782
USA
JoesMopar
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,782
USA
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Quote:
Quote:
I see alot of people throwing around head and piston combos. With an open chamber head, aren't you suppose to use a stepped or domed piston to get complete combustion whereas a closed chamber head uses a flat top?
I plan on re-using the 906's with minimal headwork, so is a flat top with a zero deck better or a KB 400 with the dome better?
Yes... to get "quench" with open chamber heads a stepped or dome piston is needed. Quench means the piston almost touches the head... .040" clearance is desired. The KB400 piston could probably support this and would need machined to fit the head for each cylinder. Its time consuming but supports higher CR and better combustion on pump fuel. Worth it? you decide. If you want the best running engine with stock displacement and heads yes.
So what exactly is the difference between quench and CR? If you increase quench, do you always increase CR at the same time?
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: 451Mopar]
#848826
11/10/10 05:21 AM
11/10/10 05:21 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
master
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master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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OK, here is the price comparison I was talking about: 440 Source Stroker Kit = $1997 Includes: Crank, Rods, Pistons, pins, locks rings, main and rod bearings, and balancing. Summits cost for the same Total Seal Moly rings ($113.95 Actually 440 source is cheaper, only $109.95), Clevite "H" series mains bearings ($91.60), and stock rod size Clevite "H" series bearings (103.60) Going with the inexpensive KB pistons ($332.99), and new rod bolts ($61.31) so far we have $674.80 just in parts and no labor. To press in the new rod bolts and recondition the stock rods, labor might be $100, and balancing the engine may be $200+, and I did not even mention the costs of the crank needs to be ground and/or polished and if it needs oversized bearings the cost of the bearing could be alot more. So you could have an easy $974.80+ into shortblock parts/labor, not including the bore/hone of the block. Anyhow you can see the additional cost of the stroker is really only about an extra $1,022.20 and that is not even a good apples to apples comparison, lets throw in the cost of the off-the-shelf ROSS Forged pistons at $664.99. That would add $332 to a comprable 383 built engine using the stock crank and rods, the the cost differential is more like $690.20  So on the bank per buck factor many consider 1HP/$10 a good deal. The $690.20 gets you an extra 101 CID (at 0.030" over stock stroke displacement is 388.46, 4.25" stroker is 489.17 CID), and that should help make alot more horse power, at least better than 1HP/$10 or 69+ HP? I have also done the stock vs. aftermarket cylinder head thing before, and you may be able to do the stock heads for $200-$500 less than Stealth or RPM heads, but unless you can port them yourself and your time and materials have no value, you really don't get much bang for the buck using the stock heads unless you need a pure stock appearance, but that gets killed pretty quick when going after performance. Anyhow, I think that in true costs you end up with something like a 400-425HP 388 cid engine using the stock crank, rods, heads, or a 525-550+ HP stroker with aftermarket heads that only cost about $1,000 to $1,500 extra (about $4,500-$5000 estimate?) Ok, lets hear your opinions.......
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: JoesMopar]
#848827
11/10/10 08:39 AM
11/10/10 08:39 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
ahy
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I see alot of people throwing around head and piston combos. With an open chamber head, aren't you suppose to use a stepped or domed piston to get complete combustion whereas a closed chamber head uses a flat top?
I plan on re-using the 906's with minimal headwork, so is a flat top with a zero deck better or a KB 400 with the dome better?
Yes... to get "quench" with open chamber heads a stepped or dome piston is needed. Quench means the piston almost touches the head... .040" clearance is desired. The KB400 piston could probably support this and would need machined to fit the head for each cylinder. Its time consuming but supports higher CR and better combustion on pump fuel. Worth it? you decide. If you want the best running engine with stock displacement and heads yes.
So what exactly is the difference between quench and CR? If you increase quench, do you always increase CR at the same time?
The benefit of quench is the aggressive stirring and cooling of the mixture where the piston and head come in close contact. The close contact is on part of the piston only. The rest of the piston can be a dish or below deck to lower compression ratio. Quench and CR are different.
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: dulcich]
#848828
11/10/10 09:35 AM
11/10/10 09:35 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
BTW, the EMC has never been held at COMP, so you have your info wrong there too, but state it as fact. Also, FYI, the selection of the host facility of first World, then UNOH was the result much broader considerations than you seem to reason in your mind, again based on what I don't know.
-dulcich
My mistake, Comp was one of the prelim sites in 2003, I for some reason thought they moved everything there, it's been a number of years and I don't pay any attention to the challenge at all now.
I understand your view on my lack of hoopla for the West Tech numbers. I remember reading and/or hearing how Superflow cal'd all the dynos and I just found it odd that the #1 engine from Detroit picked up something like 50hp, I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong, with nothing more than being bolted on to that dyno.
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: 451Mopar]
#848829
11/10/10 10:33 AM
11/10/10 10:33 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 283
Motor City
BeeFreak
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 283
Motor City
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Quote:
OK, here is the price comparison I was talking about:
440 Source Stroker Kit = $1997
Includes: Crank, Rods, Pistons, pins, locks rings, main and rod bearings, and balancing.
Summits cost for the same Total Seal Moly rings ($113.95 Actually 440 source is cheaper, only $109.95), Clevite "H" series mains bearings ($91.60), and stock rod size Clevite "H" series bearings (103.60)
Going with the inexpensive KB pistons ($332.99), and new rod bolts ($61.31)
so far we have $674.80 just in parts and no labor.
To press in the new rod bolts and recondition the stock rods, labor might be $100, and balancing the engine may be $200+, and I did not even mention the costs of the crank needs to be ground and/or polished and if it needs oversized bearings the cost of the bearing could be alot more. So you could have an easy $974.80+ into shortblock parts/labor, not including the bore/hone of the block.
Anyhow you can see the additional cost of the stroker is really only about an extra $1,022.20
and that is not even a good apples to apples comparison, lets throw in the cost of the off-the-shelf ROSS Forged pistons at $664.99. That would add $332 to a comprable 383 built engine using the stock crank and rods, the the cost differential is more like $690.20
So on the bank per buck factor many consider 1HP/$10 a good deal. The $690.20 gets you an extra 101 CID (at 0.030" over stock stroke displacement is 388.46, 4.25" stroker is 489.17 CID), and that should help make alot more horse power, at least better than 1HP/$10 or 69+ HP?
I have also done the stock vs. aftermarket cylinder head thing before, and you may be able to do the stock heads for $200-$500 less than Stealth or RPM heads, but unless you can port them yourself and your time and materials have no value, you really don't get much bang for the buck using the stock heads unless you need a pure stock appearance, but that gets killed pretty quick when going after performance.
Anyhow, I think that in true costs you end up with something like a 400-425HP 388 cid engine using the stock crank, rods, heads, or a 525-550+ HP stroker with aftermarket heads that only cost about $1,000 to $1,500 extra (about $4,500-$5000 estimate?)
Ok, lets hear your opinions.......
Thanks for all the info! It hardly makes sense to do anything less than all of it on a 383. With the aftermarket head you lose the stock look that I am wanting to retain but gain a ton of power. That seems to be the biggest thing I need to figure out is the heads. 3k was dreaming unless I want a slug I guess. It's been 20 years since I did any type of rebuild. Back then it was cheaper but not very high tech. At least what we were doing.
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: BeeFreak]
#848832
11/10/10 03:08 PM
11/10/10 03:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
I didn't realize 440 source made those heads and they do look a lot like the iron head. I am guessing the newer books at amazon get into some of the new technology hopefully? Like, How to Build Max-performance Mopar Big Blocks (S-A Design}
I wanted to thank all for their input on this. I guess another question would be. Anyone use the Stealth heads? Look like a pretty nice bolt on.
You have been a member here for 5 years and you have to ask that question ? Don't you know they are the best heads on the planet for a big block mopar .
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#848835
11/10/10 03:46 PM
11/10/10 03:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 283
Motor City
BeeFreak
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 283
Motor City
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Quote:
Have you looked on here or around for something already together? I only ask because you can save a bunch of money that way. You can find good deals on heads, intakes, carbs, short blocks and even stroker kits.
I am just getting started and trying to figure out what I want to do with this engine. Have had a few contacts that have stuff they want to get rid of but I don't want to buy till I'm sure of what I want to do. Really appreciate all the information for sure!
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: BeeFreak]
#848838
11/10/10 05:35 PM
11/10/10 05:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,936
Holly/MI
Dean_Kuzluzski
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,936
Holly/MI
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On the top of page 4 in the "Engines For Sale - Big Block" there's a 451 shortblock, fresh, $1800.00 in TN. Road trip??
R.I.P.- Gary "Coop" Davis 02/09/68-05/13/04
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: Dean_Kuzluzski]
#848839
11/10/10 05:48 PM
11/10/10 05:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
On the top of page 4 in the "Engines For Sale - Big Block" there's a 451 shortblock, fresh, $1800.00 in TN. Road trip??
It's an RB , so it's a 440 block bored .055 , I'd want to see a sonic check on it .
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: BeeFreak]
#848840
11/10/10 09:11 PM
11/10/10 09:11 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,310
Prospect, PA
BSB67
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,310
Prospect, PA
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Quote:
I am seeing that. It's nearly a couple hundred bucks to clean up a block and tell you if it's OK to even use it!
What is to be included in your 3k budget? Is this a short block?, long block, or complete sitting between the fender wells ready to run?
I'd been asked more than once to see what can be done on a $2500 budget. This was a few years ago. The guys that were asking were starting with running low compression 440 engines. After looking in detail at ALL of the costs and being true to the budget, there was only one conclusion: Prepare a good set of 915 heads, mill the heads to the CR you can get away with, and add a good cam and timing chain. Nothing to the block. That's it. You'll maybe have a couple hundred dollars left over, at best. That would be the best performance gain given the budget. Today, maybe substitute the Stealth or Edelbrock heads for the 915s.
JohnRR - If you went 98 mph with a stockish 383, that is as good as I've ever witnessed. I cannot ever remember seeing a stockish 383 (even some with headers and aftermarket carb) break 100 mph in a B body. Enough gear and tire and they might go high 13s.
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: BeeFreak]
#848843
11/10/10 11:02 PM
11/10/10 11:02 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,310
Prospect, PA
BSB67
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,310
Prospect, PA
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Quote:
I was hoping for short block at 3k or less.
Oh - no heads or valve gear?
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: ahy]
#848844
11/10/10 11:04 PM
11/10/10 11:04 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,310
Prospect, PA
BSB67
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,310
Prospect, PA
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Quote:
Lots of choices... If you want or need to stay in budget, you can get a nice running stock looking 383. Compression around 9:1, no quench, iron heads, decent cam. Lots of fun to drive. Don't let me or others talk you out of it if that's right for your app. Care in piston choice and machine work will make it noticably stronger than original.
The next step up would be 440 source or Edelbrock heads. Next after that is a stroker.
Fully rebuilt 383 with new parts for 3K. Really?
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: BSB67]
#848845
11/11/10 10:50 AM
11/11/10 10:50 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
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U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
JohnRR - If you went 98 mph with a stockish 383, that is as good as I've ever witnessed. I cannot ever remember seeing a stockish 383 (even some with headers and aftermarket carb) break 100 mph in a B body. Enough gear and tire and they might go high 13s.
The car is a 69 383 Dart and it was as stock as the day it rolled off the assembly line except the exhaust , it went 99.7 with the same tune I had at the pure stock drags at my home track which is closer to sea level , I think it's 90 ft , and it was a nice clear day , no idea what the DA was. The car has 3.91's on an F70-14 tire, I am not sure what affect the timing chain had on it and I never ran it with a fresh chain. The car will go back together with a fresh engine and 4.30 gears, the only real deviation from stock will be the compression bumped to factory advertised 10.0 and a cam that is very close to the 70 spec cam, I'm hoping the car will run low 13's, one person I talked with at the PS drags thought I could get it into the 12's, I don't see that with the 4 speed and me driving it.
Beefreak , you should be able to do the shortblock for 3k I would think. If you decide to go the stroker route I've got a set of Flat top Diamond pistons I'm looking to sell.
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: JohnRR]
#848846
11/11/10 12:29 PM
11/11/10 12:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 283
Motor City
BeeFreak
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 283
Motor City
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Quote:
Quote:
JohnRR - If you went 98 mph with a stockish 383, that is as good as I've ever witnessed. I cannot ever remember seeing a stockish 383 (even some with headers and aftermarket carb) break 100 mph in a B body. Enough gear and tire and they might go high 13s.
The car is a 69 383 Dart and it was as stock as the day it rolled off the assembly line except the exhaust , it went 99.7 with the same tune I had at the pure stock drags at my home track which is closer to sea level , I think it's 90 ft , and it was a nice clear day , no idea what the DA was. The car has 3.91's on an F70-14 tire, I am not sure what affect the timing chain had on it and I never ran it with a fresh chain. The car will go back together with a fresh engine and 4.30 gears, the only real deviation from stock will be the compression bumped to factory advertised 10.0 and a cam that is very close to the 70 spec cam, I'm hoping the car will run low 13's, one person I talked with at the PS drags thought I could get it into the 12's, I don't see that with the 4 speed and me driving it.
Beefreak , you should be able to do the shortblock for 3k I would think. If you decide to go the stroker route I've got a set of Flat top Diamond pistons I'm looking to sell.
Thanks John. What exactly are they (part #) so I would know once I figure out the combo? New/used?
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: superbyrd]
#848849
11/11/10 03:31 PM
11/11/10 03:31 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
master
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master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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I have not looked into doing a low buck 383 in a long time. I rebuilt the original 383 that came in my '71 Charger with one of the inexpensive Summit "kits" that was about 20-years ago, but the kit had forged flat top pistons and all the bearings, rings, and gaskets. I don't recall the brand or part number, but the pistons sat below the deck. I used some 906 heads from a '68 383, and ported them using the Mopar templete kit, then had them rebuilt with new valves, guides, and hardened exhaust seats, and milled 0.040" to get back a bit of compression using the 0.040" thick Fel=Pro head gaskets. The cam I used was the Crower Compu-pro 271HDP (271/284 adv duration, 222/234 @ 0.050" duration, 0.486"/0.496" lift, 112 LSA) It made good mid-upper power and I would shift at 6,000 RPM, but not much low end torque with the (maybe 9.0:1 compression or lower). I was using a stock 1800? stall converter and it just did not work well. I really needed a higher stall converter. The valve train was stock rocker gear with slightly shorter Ford FE pushrods (same ball-ball ends, but oil through design and about 0.030" shorter than a stock 383 pushrod.) I tried two different intakes, A Weiand Action Plus dual plane, which seemed to perform about like the stock 4-bbl, and a Weiand X-Cellerator single plane. The engine seemed to make more power with the X-Cellerator, but it also made the low end even worse. The performer rpm would have worked good on this engine, but it would be about 10 years before that intake was avaliable. The carb was a Carter 750, and it had Hooker headers, and dual 2.5" exhausts with superturbo mufflers. I had accidently over-reved the engine because of the stupid shift kit that lets you select first gear at any speed modification and worn out shifter bushings. Anyhow, I had a few intake valve hit the flat top pistons (the pistons had no valve reliefs), so I ended up with bent valves. Anyhow, That 383 setup was the most dissapointing engine I have ever built.  At the time (early to mid 1990s) piston selection was really limited (if the affordable range anyhow), and aftermarket cylinder heads were pretty limited. This is when I bought my B-1 B/S heads. I was thinking of using them on the 383 short block because the heads have small 65cc chanbers which would bring up the compression ratio. After getting the heads with 1.6:1 rockers it was obvious the pistons would need valve reliefs, and I really did not want to tear a fairly fresh short block apart. Anyhow, the 451 strokers were getting some attention at the time, and it just made more sense to use the heads on the 451 stroker 400 block with Ross pistons that had plenty of reliefs so I could run a bigger cam. Anyhow after going to the stroker, I totally lost interest in the old 383. The stroker was making almost twice the power as the old 383, and the rest is history....
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: superbyrd]
#848850
11/11/10 04:18 PM
11/11/10 04:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
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Quote:
john, on your 383 in your dart,where your pistons down in the hole? i hear alot of folks talking about poor compression ratio on these motors in factory form. i have 3 complete 383 magnums here(2 are from 2 different 69 roadrunners/ 1 from a 70 super bee) all were very low mile cars,untouched,all stock,and all 3 of them have the stock flat pistons in them and are zero deck.
just curious how much variation there could be.
Technically yes they are in the hole, the CH on the stock 68-69 383 4bbl piston is 1.932, on a blueprint block they are .003 in the hole, the pistons in my Dart's 383 and another 69 383 HP I have are .003 in the hole. With stock heads from the factory which are in the 90cc range, the sets I have had cc'd were 90 - 92 cc, the compression comes in at 9.2 on an actual factory rating of 10.0.
I'm not sure about your 70 383, what's the assembly date, because the 70 383 has different specs per NHRA than the 68-69. Many claim that factory blocks can be as much as .020 TALLER than blueprint , the small amount of engines I have done have not been that high , all have been very close to the blueprint spec so who knows ?
the engine rules for the PS drags are changing for next year , the yare going away from the NHRA specs for a number of reasons and are now allowing as much as 1.5 over stock, but from the conversation I had it sounded to me they would like to see people build and certify to factory advertised which is what I am now doing . If you take a 69-69 383 , putthe piston at .003 to zero , steel shim head gasket and 80 cc heads , depending on the overbore , you can come in at 10.0 - 10.14 , My pistons will have very small valve reliefs and be .002 in the hole , with my heads I should be right at the 10.0.
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: BeeFreak]
#848851
11/12/10 04:10 AM
11/12/10 04:10 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
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master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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Ok, I started looking to see what is avaliable and affordable. Here is what I came up with to build a decent street performance 383, that should make around 450 HP, and cost around $3,500.
The $3,500 does not include oil pan and pickup, Carb, ignition system, exhaust system, or cooling system.
So here is what I came up with (copyed and pasted from my spread sheet):
383 PARTS LIST
PART DESCRIPTION COST Notes:
Pistons KB-400-030 $345.99 9.5:1 to 9.8:1 Domed piston using 80-84cc head, 0.040” Gasket, 0.024” below deck.
Cam Kit Lunati 60303LK $209.95 Cam and Lifters, 3-bolt cam
Gasket Kit Fel-Pro QKS2110 $55.95
Rod Bolts ARP 145-6002 $61.31
Piston Rings Sealed Power ZE233K30 $48.95 Moly top ring, not file fit, mild performance app?
Main Bearings Clevite MS876P $62.95 Performance Set – standard size
Rod Bearings Sealed Power Z82320CP $64.95 Performance T-77 Set of 8 – standard size
Cam Bearings Dura-Bond PDP-17 $24.88 Prefered performance cam bearing for best fit
Freeze Plugs Sealed Power Z3818011 $12.99 Brass freeze Plug Kit
Valley Tray gasket Fel-Pro (112-1002) $19.95 440-source price
Oil Pump Melling M-63HV (440 S Price) $65.95 High Volume Standard Pressure Oil Pump
Oil Pump Bolt Kit 440 Source 109-1502 $9.95 Longer bolts for HV pump
Oil Filter Fram HP-1 $9.95 Oil Filter
Timing Chain Set 440 Source 102-1004 $74.95 3-bolt timing set, double roller
Timing Chain bolt kit ARP (440 source 129-1007) $8.95
Harmonic balancer 440 Source 200-1083 $89.95 High Strength Steel, non-sfi
Cylinder Heads 440 Source 200-1055 $995.00
Cylinder Head Bolt Kit ARP (440 source 129-1005) $79.95 440 source brand 109-1514 = 44.95
Spark plugs NGK $24.95 440 source – Champion 3/4” reach 138-1000 = 24.95
Intermediate Shaft Bushing 440 source 101-1001 $7.95
ARP Main Stud Kit 440 Source 129-1008 $59.95
Intake Manifold Edelbrock Performer RPM $239.95 440 source price
Sub-Total $2,575.32
Machine Work
Clean / Hot Tank Block $50.00
R&R & Fit cam bearings $30.00
R&R Rod Bolts and recondition rods $100.00
Align Hone Mains with ARP studs (if needed) $100.00
Mill / square Deck $100.00
Bore & Hone cylinders /w Torque plates $160.00
R&R pistons (press fit pins) $24.00
Turn / Polish crank ( if needed) $100.00
balance engine $200.00
Sun-Total $864.00
Total = $3,439.32
Power estimate using headers, and 750 cfm carb:
RPM HP TQ
1000 59 308
1500 95 332
2000 130 341
2500 180 377
3000 234 410
3500 278 417
4000 327 429
4500 388 453
5000 433 454
5500 452 431
6000 454 397
6500 445 360
7000 420 315
As you can see, not much torque in the low end.
If the deck is milled about 0.020" the pistons should be at 0.004 below deck (not the dome part) and that would boost compression to 10.27:1 and add about 10 ft/lbs of torque to the power band (and also tighten up the quench, but the dome would have to be checked for clearance.)
These power numbers were estimated using low port flow numbers that someone reported as out of the box numbers. with some port cleanup and the milled block peak power could be around 475 HP.
Numbers were generated with the Dynomation 5 sim, wave-action model, and when I tested larger cams, they seemed to really hurt low end torque even more.
Last edited by 451Mopar; 11/12/10 04:37 AM.
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: 451Mopar]
#848852
11/12/10 08:48 AM
11/12/10 08:48 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,310
Prospect, PA
BSB67
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,310
Prospect, PA
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I looked at my spread sheet briefly the other day but was to lazy to really go through it. Thanks for going through it and posting. I would probably remove the APR studs, oil pump and RPM manifold and use the existing main bolts, add a high pressure spring to his existing pump, and buy a used DP4B. On the flip side, I don't see the intermediate shaft, and I'd add a windage tray, new stamped rockers, shafts and maybe pushrods. Are there valve springs in that kit? Shipping will be a little coin, and my machine work here is a little higher.
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: BSB67]
#848854
11/12/10 12:04 PM
11/12/10 12:04 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
master
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master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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Your right, I think machine work may be a bit higher. By the time I got to that part I just threw in some rough estimates. I use a semi-retired machinest and his prices are lower than what seems to be the normal rate. In my notes I did estimate the machine work could be around $1,000. I have my own cam bearing tool, so I haven't paid to have that done in several years. The stealth heads have valve springs that are compatable with the cam. I used two reference sources, Summit Racing and 440 Source. If the part does not mention 440 Source that it was referenced from Summit. The only non-name brand parts from 440 source are the heads, timing set, and Harmonic balancer. I listed 440 Source for some of the brand name parts because they have good prices on those parts. I think shipping on the stealth heads was $50 when I bought mine. To keep the costs down, assumed the re-use of the oil pan/pickup, rocker system, intermedate shaft,pushrods, distrubitor, plug wires, ignition coil, water pump, valve covers, etc. I like the HV pump because it gives good pressure at idle, but stock size pump works too. I quoted using the 440 source timing set. I have this timing set and it is a nice setup, but you could use any 3-bolt timing gear set, even less expensive units. If you look at the parts, these are not the bottom dollar parts, they are higher performance parts than just standard rebuilder parts. You may be able to bring the cost down by using lower quality bearings, piston rings, gaskets, head bolts, main bearing bolts, rod bolts,etc. The harmonic balancer is a big question mark as to how much to spend and which to get. You might be able to save money if re-using the stock balancer, but I would not trust a 40-year dampner. I have not used the 440 source dampner, so that is a big "?", but I would recommend at least a new dampner, but it needs to be able to accept the stock pulleys (The stock dampner is recessed) because some of the performance dampner like the fluid dampner and ATI will require different depth pulleys. The ARP main studs are optional, but they add less than $50, and are one of the items that would be difficult to add-on at a later date. That gets us back the the rocker system. The rockers and pushrods are easy to upgrade by just removing the valve covers. I also listed the Champion spark plugs from 440 Source. I did that to just try cover all costs, but I prefer NGK spark plugs, just personal preference. I listed the Edelbrock RPM intake because it works and is easely avaliable new. One issue with running a low deck "B" block is the lack of intake selection. Also, if buying a used intake, you don't alaways know what modifications have been done to it. Last note, the Stealth heads were chosen because they do have a stock appearance and are inexpensive. If the appearance is not an issue, you could go with the Edelbrock heads for a few $$$ more. You could also do this with stock Iron heads, rebuilt with larger valves, hardened exhaust seats, and ported but that may be even more expensive than the aftermarket heads? There are many ways to build the engine, this is just my on what I believe is good "bang for the buck"
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: BeeFreak]
#848856
11/12/10 02:11 PM
11/12/10 02:11 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
master
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master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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I should have some real work Stealth Head info fairly soon. Maybe I should chassis dyno the car before and after doing the head swap. I'm just waiting for the rocker arms to arrive.
I know a few people running the heads out of the box with no complaints, but I have read the really early batches had some issues with locks/retainers? The ones on my heads look fine for my application?
I have done the rebuilt/ported 906 heads before on my old 383, and it was more expensive than I though it was going to be. It was mostly labor related costs:
Clean heads, surface/mill heads, replace valve guides, install exhaust seats, port heads, multi-angle valve job, and cut spring pockets.
Plus all the parts:
New valves, valve guides, exhaust seats, guide seals, core plugs, springs, shims, locks, and retainers.
If I was a machine shop, It would makes sense to tell you to re-use your stock stuff because they make more money selling you the machining labor.
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: 451Mopar]
#848857
11/12/10 05:12 PM
11/12/10 05:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
If I was a machine shop, It would makes sense to tell you to re-use your stock stuff because they make more money selling you the machining labor.
You said a mouth full there .
I have had 3 sets of 906's done , the cheapest set with the least amount of work done I have $1500 in them , and about 4500 total between the 3 sets.
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Re: Is there a good link on a 383 build on here????
[Re: JohnRR]
#848858
11/12/10 09:42 PM
11/12/10 09:42 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,310
Prospect, PA
BSB67
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,310
Prospect, PA
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Quote:
Quote:
If I was a machine shop, It would makes sense to tell you to re-use your stock stuff because they make more money selling you the machining labor.
You said a mouth full there .
I have had 3 sets of 906's done , the cheapest set with the least amount of work done I have $1500 in them , and about 4500 total between the 3 sets.
It cuts both ways. I'm way okay with spending money at my local - high quality machine shop and get a quality piece in return verses paying to have something shipped to my door. Of course, I don't want to pay more and get less.
I personnally would not buy a cheap balancer. I would check out what I have, verify that it's not spun, and then keep an eye on it until I could upgrade.
I agree, if he is on a tighter budget, there a few items that he could spend less on without risk considering his performance level.
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this is one of the more interesting 383 threads we've had in awhile...
, but there is no way I could get all that machine work done where I live for $864, bore and hone with a torque plate was $300 last time I had it done.