Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Hideaway headlight relay #815374
09/26/10 10:44 PM
09/26/10 10:44 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 221
New Mexico, USA
A
attaboy Offline OP
enthusiast
attaboy  Offline OP
enthusiast
A

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 221
New Mexico, USA
I can't seem to get the hideaway headlight doors on my 71 Charger to close when I turn off the light switch. They open right up when I turn on the light switch. They just won't close (except manually). Not sure what the problem is and maybe someone has an idea of what the heck is going on.
Just incase the whole relay set up has to be replaced; does anyone know of a solid state replacement for the hideaway headlight relay set-up? Or has someone out there redesigned the assembly with other over the counter parts?
Thanks

Re: Hideaway headlight relay [Re: attaboy] #815375
09/27/10 04:14 AM
09/27/10 04:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,888
Athens, Greece
Pyper70 Offline
master
Pyper70  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,888
Athens, Greece
Bad ground??...all the relay is doing reversing the polarity on the relay (I speak from knowledge of the 70 Charger relay). How do you shut off your headlights?

I know that if you shut off your engine first and keyed 12v are off with the headlights on, then shut the headlights switch to the off position, the lights stay on for about another minute due to the Headlight delay relay. maybe you have one of those in your system and it is faulty.

If you shut off your headlight switch first then the engine, do your headlights shut off with the eyelids raised?


Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
Re: Hideaway headlight relay [Re: attaboy] #815376
09/27/10 07:02 AM
09/27/10 07:02 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,356
Kentucky
D
dfsmopars Offline
top fuel
dfsmopars  Offline
top fuel
D

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,356
Kentucky
Make sure the motor is spinning good and free. They have bad habit of seizing up.


‘72 Charger, 5.9 Magnum, Tremec 5 spd., Pro-Touring
‘14 Big Horn, Quad Cab, 4x4, 1500
Re: Hideaway headlight relay [Re: Pyper70] #815377
09/28/10 07:19 PM
09/28/10 07:19 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 221
New Mexico, USA
A
attaboy Offline OP
enthusiast
attaboy  Offline OP
enthusiast
A

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 221
New Mexico, USA
Thanks for the fast reply. The headlights are turned off with the light switch. They do indeed shut off but the doors remain open.

Re: Hideaway headlight relay [Re: attaboy] #815378
09/28/10 07:39 PM
09/28/10 07:39 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 134
Anchorage,AK
A
AK_JH27 Offline
member
AK_JH27  Offline
member
A

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 134
Anchorage,AK
i'm having a similar problem, mine open up when i turn the key on the light switch does nothing. on or off. going to follow this thread

Re: Hideaway headlight relay [Re: AK_JH27] #815379
09/28/10 10:51 PM
09/28/10 10:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 518
COLLINGWOOD, ONT
71_deputy Offline
mopar
71_deputy  Offline
mopar

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 518
COLLINGWOOD, ONT
first thing to do is check the power going to the motor- disconnect the plug to the motor-turn on the ing. switch to on.

check both wires- one should have power-"close" side.
the other should be dead.

now turn on the lights and the ing. switch on- they should now be reversed- the one that was off is now power for the "open" side.

if this checks out- the small park contact in the motor is open- not allowing the power to go to the motor to turn it closed-
a normal operation is the contact is closed- power goes thur it to the motors windings- when the doors are closed- the contact inside will open and turn the power off to the motor.
same as the reverse to open the doors.

hope this helps

John Mac

Last edited by 71_deputy; 09/29/10 02:55 PM.
Re: Hideaway headlight relay [Re: 71_deputy] #815380
09/29/10 02:10 PM
09/29/10 02:10 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 221
New Mexico, USA
A
attaboy Offline OP
enthusiast
attaboy  Offline OP
enthusiast
A

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 221
New Mexico, USA
Thanks for the information. I will try what you suggested. If it turn out that the "park" contact is the probable problem, where is it located?
attaboy

Re: Hideaway headlight relay [Re: attaboy] #815381
09/29/10 02:12 PM
09/29/10 02:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 518
COLLINGWOOD, ONT
71_deputy Offline
mopar
71_deputy  Offline
mopar

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 518
COLLINGWOOD, ONT
it is inside the motor- where the wires go in.

it also could be the plastic cam is broken inside too!!

Re: Hideaway headlight relay [Re: 71_deputy] #815382
09/29/10 02:46 PM
09/29/10 02:46 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 221
New Mexico, USA
A
attaboy Offline OP
enthusiast
attaboy  Offline OP
enthusiast
A

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 221
New Mexico, USA
John,
The two pin connector has a female connection that has a wht/blk wire into it and the male connection has a red/blk wire going into it.

Headlights off- power on the red/blk connection
no power on the blk/wht connection

Headlights on- power on the wht/blk connection
no power on the red/blk connection
attaboy

Re: Hideaway headlight relay [Re: attaboy] #815383
09/29/10 02:54 PM
09/29/10 02:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 518
COLLINGWOOD, ONT
71_deputy Offline
mopar
71_deputy  Offline
mopar

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 518
COLLINGWOOD, ONT
I've srewed up a bit- to check for the voltages at the motor as stated- the ing. switch has to be on to supply the headlight motor power.

I've corrected the post.

so try it again with the ing. switch on for the proper chek!!

John Mac

Re: Hideaway headlight relay [Re: 71_deputy] #815384
09/29/10 03:01 PM
09/29/10 03:01 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 518
COLLINGWOOD, ONT
71_deputy Offline
mopar
71_deputy  Offline
mopar

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 518
COLLINGWOOD, ONT
colors for the wires in the factory manual are:

black with a red tracer= close
dark blue with a yellow tracer= open

Re: Hideaway headlight relay [Re: 71_deputy] #815385
09/29/10 03:34 PM
09/29/10 03:34 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 221
New Mexico, USA
A
attaboy Offline OP
enthusiast
attaboy  Offline OP
enthusiast
A

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 221
New Mexico, USA
I had the ignition switch to the acc position at the time of voltage check. I may have gotten the colors wrong for the blk/yell wire and mistaken those colors as being blk/wht. The results remain the same. The test seems to indicate what you had mentioned about the contact inside the motor. What does that little thing look like and how do I fix? Maybe just a corruption on contact?

Re: Hideaway headlight relay [Re: attaboy] #815386
09/29/10 04:23 PM
09/29/10 04:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 518
COLLINGWOOD, ONT
71_deputy Offline
mopar
71_deputy  Offline
mopar

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 518
COLLINGWOOD, ONT
TO CHECK THE MOTOR:

take a wire from the + side of the battery

touch the wire to the dark blue wire with the yellow tracer- the doors should open

next touch it to the black with red tracer- it should close- if not then the problem is in the motor.

pics to follow

Re: Hideaway headlight relay [Re: 71_deputy] #815387
09/29/10 04:23 PM
09/29/10 04:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 518
COLLINGWOOD, ONT
71_deputy Offline
mopar
71_deputy  Offline
mopar

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 518
COLLINGWOOD, ONT
next

Re: Hideaway headlight relay [Re: 71_deputy] #815388
09/29/10 04:29 PM
09/29/10 04:29 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,653
The Historic Hudson Valley
MONC Offline
master
MONC  Offline
master

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,653
The Historic Hudson Valley
I remember going crazy with my 71 Charger with headlight closures as well.

Since you are able to close them manually probably not the plastic gear, but be careful, they break VERY easy ( ask me how I know..)

I've had the motor apart as well, check the contacts make sure they are not corroded and also making proper contact.

Also make sure they are adjusted properly.
If I remember correctly I had to adjust them manually to the point the doors would just start to close. That way there was enough travel when the switch was turned off.

If it turns out to be the relay, I think I have an extra lying around.

Keep us posted.
Good luck.

Re: Hideaway headlight relay [Re: 71_deputy] #815389
09/29/10 07:56 PM
09/29/10 07:56 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 221
New Mexico, USA
A
attaboy Offline OP
enthusiast
attaboy  Offline OP
enthusiast
A

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 221
New Mexico, USA
Thanks for the pics and instructions. That'll be the next thing I try. I'll keep you posted. I appreciate all of your help.
attaboy

Re: Hideaway headlight relay [Re: MONC] #815390
09/29/10 07:56 PM
09/29/10 07:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,888
Athens, Greece
Pyper70 Offline
master
Pyper70  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,888
Athens, Greece
I don't remember what I did for mine....I think I got the headlamp motor off of a 70-72 C body. I pulled the plastic gear inside and the bulkhead and re-soldered all the connections on the motor itself. They were all badly corroded, so I sealed with electrical tape paste and heatsinked everything. I believe the connector was the same one used on the front valance turn signals which I eventually took out and replaced with GM weather-tite connectors. Like I said...been about 8 years since I played around with that motor...grease the heck out of the gear when you get it working with graphite lube. I even made a plexiglas sheath to encapsulate the motor on the front to prevent it from getting wet during rains.

Just out of curiosity....could the headlamp switch be bad? You get juice to the relay when you turn on the lights, but when you shut it off, the lights shut off and it triggers a reverse polarity through the switch and into the relay. If your headlamp switch isn't sending that signal due to corrosion or cratering, wouldn't the switch be at fault. I think I remember my doors being closed, headlamp switch in the off position...and the knob on the bottom of the motor casing was still magnetically energized. The only way to open and close manually was to disconnect the pigtail (weather-tite for me). If you don't have the electromagnetic force on the knob, then you have a supply failure


Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
Re: Hideaway headlight relay [Re: MONC] #815391
09/29/10 07:58 PM
09/29/10 07:58 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 221
New Mexico, USA
A
attaboy Offline OP
enthusiast
attaboy  Offline OP
enthusiast
A

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 221
New Mexico, USA
Thanks for your input too. I'll indeed keep you posted. Thanks for the offer of your spare relay. It may come to that. I don't know which would be worse; a bad motor or a bad relay. I'll keep trying to figure it out.
attaboy

Re: Hideaway headlight relay [Re: 71_deputy] #815392
09/30/10 01:16 PM
09/30/10 01:16 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 221
New Mexico, USA
A
attaboy Offline OP
enthusiast
attaboy  Offline OP
enthusiast
A

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 221
New Mexico, USA
Well, I connected up a wire to the positive side of the battery and checked each of the two connections on the connector going to the headlight door motor. Each worked perfectly. The doors opened when I touched the Blu/Yel and they closed when I touched the wire to the Red/Blk.
I verified earlier that the relay/headlight switch are working correctly because the power "switched" between the two wires when the headlight switch was turned on and then off. So what else could be the problem?

Re: Hideaway headlight relay [Re: attaboy] #815393
09/30/10 03:41 PM
09/30/10 03:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 127
Canada
S
shadowauto Offline
member
shadowauto  Offline
member
S

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 127
Canada
Hi I understand that You have to center your motor there is a marke on the casing or just count the turn and divide the rotation by two and make sure when You install the rod that your door are half close or half open and it should work give it a try Francis.

Re: Hideaway headlight relay [Re: shadowauto] #815394
09/30/10 04:15 PM
09/30/10 04:15 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,653
The Historic Hudson Valley
MONC Offline
master
MONC  Offline
master

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,653
The Historic Hudson Valley
Quote:

Hi I understand that You have to center your motor there is a marke on the casing or just count the turn and divide the rotation by two and make sure when You install the rod that your door are half close or half open and it should work give it a try Francis.




Right, this is what I was trying to say in my earlier post, forgot all about the mark on the casing. (Thanks for the memory jogging .

I believe all of this is stated in the manual as well.

Re: Hideaway headlight relay [Re: MONC] #815395
09/30/10 05:14 PM
09/30/10 05:14 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 221
New Mexico, USA
A
attaboy Offline OP
enthusiast
attaboy  Offline OP
enthusiast
A

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 221
New Mexico, USA
Ther's nothing to install. Everything is in place and has been working up until recently. Nothing has been taken apart, the rod has not been removed. It's all as I left it after initial restoration a few years ago. It's just that it stopped returning the headlight covers to the closed position after turning off the lights. I really don't think that "centering" the motor is the problem here. It's an electrical problem, not a mechanical mechanical problem. Everything works perfectly when I bypass the existing electrical circuits and power the motor directly with 12 volts. The doors open and the doors close perfectly.

Re: Hideaway headlight relay [Re: attaboy] #815396
09/30/10 06:30 PM
09/30/10 06:30 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 518
COLLINGWOOD, ONT
71_deputy Offline
mopar
71_deputy  Offline
mopar

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 518
COLLINGWOOD, ONT
so it operates with the wire way- so I'm thinking that the relay itself has a problem with the close contact inside.

Re: Hideaway headlight relay [Re: 71_deputy] #815397
09/30/10 10:01 PM
09/30/10 10:01 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 221
New Mexico, USA
A
attaboy Offline OP
enthusiast
attaboy  Offline OP
enthusiast
A

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 221
New Mexico, USA
I would think that the problem is in the relay except for the fact that I checked with a VOM meter and verified that when I turn on the headlights the Blu/Yel wire becomes energized while the Red/Blk is not. When I turn off the headlights the Blu/Yel wire is deengerized and the Red/Blk is energized. Seems to be working correctly?
attaboy

Re: Hideaway headlight relay [Re: attaboy] #815398
09/30/10 10:49 PM
09/30/10 10:49 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 518
COLLINGWOOD, ONT
71_deputy Offline
mopar
71_deputy  Offline
mopar

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 518
COLLINGWOOD, ONT
not to get nasty here- but connect it all back together and recheck both wires.
reason is that without a load on it- the meter will it ok

but with something connected and showing almost nothing would point to the relay's conact being bad- try it and let us know!!!

John Mac

Re: Hideaway headlight relay [Re: 71_deputy] #815399
10/01/10 01:24 PM
10/01/10 01:24 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 221
New Mexico, USA
A
attaboy Offline OP
enthusiast
attaboy  Offline OP
enthusiast
A

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 221
New Mexico, USA
You're not being nasty. You're helping and I appreciate it. I didn't think of the "no load" possibility. I'll try it again all hooked up. Also, there is always the remote possibility that the problem is as simple as a non connection within the connector itself. At any rate, I'll hook it back up and keep you posted.
Thanks

Re: Hideaway headlight relay [Re: attaboy] #815400
10/01/10 05:17 PM
10/01/10 05:17 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,653
The Historic Hudson Valley
MONC Offline
master
MONC  Offline
master

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,653
The Historic Hudson Valley
Agree with 71 Deputy, may be a load issue.
I think I had that issue as well at some point.

Listen for the "click" of the relay.

You can also take the cover off the relay ( carefully) and check the contacts in there.

I think I did that as well.

Re: Hideaway headlight relay [Re: MONC] #815401
10/01/10 05:55 PM
10/01/10 05:55 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 221
New Mexico, USA
A
attaboy Offline OP
enthusiast
attaboy  Offline OP
enthusiast
A

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 221
New Mexico, USA
Interesting. It'll be difficult to rear the relay because it's located under the dash but I'll try it. Maybe it's a simple thing like dirty contacts on the relay.....or just simply that the connector pins to the motor isn't mating well.

Re: Hideaway headlight relay [Re: shadowauto] #815402
10/01/10 07:55 PM
10/01/10 07:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,470
renton, Washington
ph23vo Offline
I Live Here
ph23vo  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,470
renton, Washington
its just the contacts inside the motor itself.... dan

Re: Hideaway headlight relay [Re: ph23vo] #815403
10/02/10 04:41 PM
10/02/10 04:41 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,653
The Historic Hudson Valley
MONC Offline
master
MONC  Offline
master

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,653
The Historic Hudson Valley
You should be able to remove the relay easily enough. I think mine was attached with 1 nut/bolt.

I agree that it sounds like a contact issue, whether it is relay or motor, as the car was sitting for a while, and worked fine beforehand.

Re: Hideaway headlight relay [Re: MONC] #815404
10/05/10 09:18 PM
10/05/10 09:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 709
St Louis, MO 63026
convx4 Offline
super stock
convx4  Offline
super stock

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 709
St Louis, MO 63026
I used a Chevy truck accessory relay in place of the factory on a 70 dodge charger.

Re: Hideaway headlight relay [Re: convx4] #815405
10/05/10 09:19 PM
10/05/10 09:19 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 709
St Louis, MO 63026
convx4 Offline
super stock
convx4  Offline
super stock

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 709
St Louis, MO 63026
More info saved from the web.
Sorry for not remembering who.

Re: Hideaway headlight relay [Re: convx4] #815406
10/06/10 12:35 AM
10/06/10 12:35 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,089
Valencia, España
NachoRT74 Offline
master
NachoRT74  Offline
master

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,089
Valencia, España
I made that diagram long time ago

need to mention the advantage to hook on RUN circuit like is originally instead ACC like I suggested there, is to be able to keep the doors open when turn on lights, key in off, and then turn off the lighst without close the doors, for service or washing purpouse


With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
Re: Hideaway headlight relay [Re: ph23vo] #815407
10/09/10 03:32 PM
10/09/10 03:32 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 221
New Mexico, USA
A
attaboy Offline OP
enthusiast
attaboy  Offline OP
enthusiast
A

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 221
New Mexico, USA
if it's the motor contacts then why would the motor work perfectly opening and closing when going directly from the battery and bypassing the relay?
attaboy

Re: Hideaway headlight relay [Re: attaboy] #815408
10/11/10 02:40 PM
10/11/10 02:40 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,653
The Historic Hudson Valley
MONC Offline
master
MONC  Offline
master

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,653
The Historic Hudson Valley
Makes sense.
Did you check the relay contacts?

Re: Hideaway headlight relay [Re: MONC] #815409
10/14/10 07:33 PM
10/14/10 07:33 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 221
New Mexico, USA
A
attaboy Offline OP
enthusiast
attaboy  Offline OP
enthusiast
A

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 221
New Mexico, USA
Well, I think I found at least part of the problem: One of the connections in the rubber connector coming from the motor (the one that closes the headlight door) was rusty and wasn't making a good connection. I cleaned it out with a dremmel and the headlight doors now close as well as open. Such a silly little thing causing such a huge investment in time and energy. Welcome to the wonderful world of 40 year old Mopars I guess. Thanks guys for all your help!attaboy

Re: Hideaway headlight relay [Re: attaboy] #815410
10/15/10 09:52 AM
10/15/10 09:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 543
Indiana, Just Off I-70
BradD Offline
mopar
BradD  Offline
mopar

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 543
Indiana, Just Off I-70
Not to be a d**k here, but that is always the first thing to check. Always clean the connections first.
Brad


Check out the Dorn's 69 Barracuda "Switchblade" in the Nov.2010 MCG
Check out the Dorn's refurbished 36 Ford in the Feb.2011 Street Rodder
Re: Hideaway headlight relay [Re: BradD] #815411
10/16/10 06:12 PM
10/16/10 06:12 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,653
The Historic Hudson Valley
MONC Offline
master
MONC  Offline
master

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,653
The Historic Hudson Valley
Glad to hear you found the problem !

Figured it had to be a connection thing, as you mentioned the car was sitting for a while.

Page 1 of 2 1 2






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1