Four (4) Headlights on relay's ?........
#79743
06/26/08 12:16 AM
06/26/08 12:16 AM
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Anonymous
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I've seen most of the articles on putting headlights on relay's for 2 headlight cars....but "how to" on a 4 headlight car ?
If anyone has done this on an E or B body I would like to see a pic, and where you cut the wiring harness at.
Definately would like to know how many relay's and what colored wires went where on the relay's.
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Re: Four (4) Headlights on relay's ?........
#79746
06/26/08 08:38 AM
06/26/08 08:38 AM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 720 Seminole County FL to Plymouth...
Barry70GTX
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I don't see any reason to use 2 relays. I use one and wire it in at the dimmer switch. No wire cutting and it is hidden under the carpet and left kick panel.
NMCA NSS 67 Coronet
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Re: Four (4) Headlights on relay's ?........
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#79747
06/26/08 09:20 AM
06/26/08 09:20 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,367 Jersey shore
Gary67
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Quote:
Pretty easy to wire up. Two relays. Relay #1 powers both hi-beam lights and relay #2 powers both low-beam lights. Other than the hi/low's being in physically seperate headlight buckets, the conversion is exactly the same as a 2-headlight car.
I just did my 67...I used two relays each individually fused off the bat+ terminal on the alternator. If you have a factory service manual it should have an electrical diagram, that will help tell you the color to tap for the trigger wires, even if you don't have a manual just use a test light to verify....I put my relays on the engine side of the rad support on the alt side under the horn so it's pretty stealthy and still easy to swap a relay out and or a fuse.......
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Re: Four (4) Headlights on relay's ?........
[Re: Barry70GTX]
#79748
06/26/08 09:20 AM
06/26/08 09:20 AM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,968 North Riverside IL & Lowell IN
GTXKen
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I did this on my GTX with great results, my headlights are bright and there is no dimming. Use two relays and mount them as close to the headights as possible, cut your harness at the relay and run a heavy power source cable to the relays. I would upgrade the wires from the relay to the headlights for best results. I ran a #6 wire from the alt output to my relay box, I scavanged a relay box out of a junkyard intrepid to make mounting of the relays neat. Madd electrical is a good source, do a google search for headlight relays as well. These shoule help you wire the relays...
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Re: Four (4) Headlights on relay's ?........
[Re: Barry70GTX]
#79749
06/26/08 12:04 PM
06/26/08 12:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,220 toronto canada
69chargeryeehaa
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Quote:
I don't see any reason to use 2 relays. I use one and wire it in at the dimmer switch. No wire cutting and it is hidden under the carpet and left kick panel.
you can do that but you defeat the purpose of the relay in the first place, unless you run a heavy wire from the batt to the relay, but that would also give you a false reading on the amp meter...
The way i did it, was if you look right next to the battery, there is a connector for the forward harness, you can just use crimp on connectors and make your own intermediate harness and wire it to the relay. Run wires from the battery, and you can locate the relays under the battery if you want it hidden. i just put mine on the top. you'll have to wire in jumpers for the parking lights, and directional wires, the good thing about doing it this way is you don't cut/alter any wire harnesses, you can simply remove the jumpers/wires you made and plug the factory connector back together. But keep in mind, your amp gauge on the dash (stock) will give you a false reading when the headlights are on from back feeding the amp gauge. I found that putting the relays in made a HUGE difference, all that factory wiring had alot of resistance due to age and that the gauge of the wire in the first place was too thin/marginal. In the stock setup my headlights pulled 24amps, with the relays, 11amps. What a huge difference, and a huge load off the stock electrical system, and no more dimming of the headlights at idle.....next up is the tail lights.....they pull ALOT on a 69 charger with 4 1157's and 2 single element bulbs (running lights).....about 15amps!!!!
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Re: Four (4) Headlights on relay's ?........
[Re: GTXKen]
#79752
06/26/08 12:19 PM
06/26/08 12:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,220 toronto canada
69chargeryeehaa
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Quote:
Don't ever use crimp connectors and make sure there is a fuse between the power source and the relays. You don't want to take a chance on burning down your car.
why? good quality connectors, good crimp tool, I've never had a problem, besides everything is fused..separate...
besides; last time i checked the whole car is factory crimp connectors....
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Re: Four (4) Headlights on relay's ?........
[Re: GTXKen]
#79753
06/26/08 12:25 PM
06/26/08 12:25 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 938 White House,TN
stroked470
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I just installed a Painless harness in my 68 Charger would it be necessary to intall relay's. My biggest concern is the actuall headlights. On my 69 Roadrunner I installed GE Halogen lamps(the only thing I could find). I hated them, they shined a straight beam of light and I couldn't see anything. I hated driving the car at night. Is there anything available other then Halogens lamps. I have seen the newer style with the replacement bulbs like on newer cars but haven't seen anyone use them on the older cars or seen any feed back on them. Do they pull more amperage then a standard headlight.
I also done away with the amp meter. I used all new Autometer gauges including volt gauge, with the painless harness.
Last edited by stroked470; 06/26/08 12:27 PM.
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Re: Four (4) Headlights on relay's ?........
[Re: 69chargeryeehaa]
#79754
06/26/08 12:30 PM
06/26/08 12:30 PM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,968 North Riverside IL & Lowell IN
GTXKen
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Quote:
Quote:
Don't ever use crimp connectors and make sure there is a fuse between the power source and the relays. You don't want to take a chance on burning down your car.
why? good quality connectors, good crimp tool, I've never had a problem, besides everything is fused..separate...
besides; last time i checked the whole car is factory crimp connectors....
Crimp connecters don't provide the same quailty connection as a soldered connection, and for that matter the connection should be crimped and then soldered. I'm glad you have everything fused.
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Re: Four (4) Headlights on relay's ?........
#79756
06/26/08 01:06 PM
06/26/08 01:06 PM
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Anonymous
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GTXKen....diagram is exactly what I'm looking for (not sure of the wire colors tho). My plan is to get power off the starter relay stud....2 fused 10 guage wires. I'll be running 4 halogens. My headlights are very bright as is, but I want to take the load off the headlight switch.
I have already re-wired with 10 guage all the wiring from the alternator, thru the dash, back out to starter relay stud with a 14 ga. fusible link. I have eliminated all the connectors (5 ?)in between...so I have very little voltage loss to the battery. Headlights scream at idle !
69Charger.....your pic looks scary ! Should have some fuses on there !
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Re: Four (4) Headlights on relay's ?........
#79757
06/26/08 01:19 PM
06/26/08 01:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,220 toronto canada
69chargeryeehaa
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Quote:
69Charger.....your pic looks scary ! Should have some fuses on there !
there is fuses on all the relays, you just can't see them well in the pic, they are on the front of the pic, there is one to the left, and 2 to the right. i just wired these all in temporary, but basically it is wired the same as the diagram posted, one day when i have nothing to do, probably this winter I'll relocate it all under the battery maybe put it all neat and tidy in a little box with externally accessible blade fuses....
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Re: Four (4) Headlights on relay's ?........
[Re: GTXKen]
#79760
06/26/08 02:51 PM
06/26/08 02:51 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 824 NH
72challorange
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Just buy replacemnet pigtail wire connectors and get he trigger for the relays at the old headlight connector, don't have to splice/cut the factory stuff if you want to swap back. Add the heavy guage fused from the starter relay and you'll be good to go. You can swap back to factory in 10 minutes if necessary. Tom I use crimps all the time along with shrink-wrap and no solder and I've never had to re do one. Shrink wrap along with some dielectric grease in the connector will last longer than the car. You have to use the tools properly to get a solid connection.
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Re: Four (4) Headlights on relay's ?........
[Re: Barry70GTX]
#79761
06/26/08 03:02 PM
06/26/08 03:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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NITROUSN
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Quote:
I don't see any reason to use 2 relays. I use one and wire it in at the dimmer switch. No wire cutting and it is hidden under the carpet and left kick panel.
Please explain how you wire one relay in to do the job?
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Re: Four (4) Headlights on relay's ?........
[Re: 69chargeryeehaa]
#79762
06/26/08 03:47 PM
06/26/08 03:47 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,168 Vancouver, WA
MoparMarq
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Or you could a little more trick and use a relay box from another rice car, rewire it inside and have your relays and fuses look a little more factory.
The first pic is the relay box from a '89 Tercel mounted on the left fender behind the headlight buckets. Two relays, one for high, one for low, three fuses (after the relays), one for low, one for high left side, and one for high right side. The power source for the relay box is an 8 gauge wire from a power junction box on the firewall. The donor car for that was a '84 Nissan Maxima.
Nice and tidy, like this...
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Re: Four (4) Headlights on relay's ?........
[Re: MoparMarq]
#79764
06/26/08 03:58 PM
06/26/08 03:58 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,168 Vancouver, WA
MoparMarq
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The junction box off the Maxima. The big fusible link is to the battery (trunk mounted). The three smaller ones are for dash power, rad fan controller, and headlight relay box power.
What's not shown in the picture obviously is the wire from the alternator that will bolt onto the power stud next to the box.
Last edited by MoparMarq; 06/26/08 04:00 PM.
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Re: Four (4) Headlights on relay's ?........
[Re: Barry70GTX]
#79767
06/26/08 09:57 PM
06/26/08 09:57 PM
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NITROUSN
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Quote:
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I don't see any reason to use 2 relays. I use one and wire it in at the dimmer switch. No wire cutting and it is hidden under the carpet and left kick panel.
Please explain how you wire one relay in to do the job?
The green wire from the light switch turns on the relay for the direct current path from the battery.I run a hot wire from the starter relay.Wire it back to the dimmer switch and the current takes its normal route to the headlamps.Eliminating any current for the headlamps traveling through the AMP Gauge.
So what do you do or how do you wire one relay for both high and low beams?
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Re: Four (4) Headlights on relay's ?........
[Re: Barry70GTX]
#79769
06/26/08 10:26 PM
06/26/08 10:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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NITROUSN
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I don't see any reason to use 2 relays. I use one and wire it in at the dimmer switch. No wire cutting and it is hidden under the carpet and left kick panel.
Please explain how you wire one relay in to do the job?
The green wire from the light switch turns on the relay for the direct current path from the battery.I run a hot wire from the starter relay.Wire it back to the dimmer switch and the current takes its normal route to the headlamps.Eliminating any current for the headlamps traveling through the AMP Gauge.
I see what you are doing. Running the load through the ammeter is just part of the problem. The way you are doing it you still can have voltage loss at the dimmer switch and connector as well as the bulkhead. The correct way is to use 2 relays for both high and low beams and bypass all the inherent weak areas the cars are known for.
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Re: Four (4) Headlights on relay's ?........
[Re: Barry70GTX]
#79772
06/26/08 10:47 PM
06/26/08 10:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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NITROUSN
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Quote:
Quote:
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I don't see any reason to use 2 relays. I use one and wire it in at the dimmer switch. No wire cutting and it is hidden under the carpet and left kick panel.
Please explain how you wire one relay in to do the job?
The green wire from the light switch turns on the relay for the direct current path from the battery.I run a hot wire from the starter relay.Wire it back to the dimmer switch and the current takes its normal route to the headlamps.Eliminating any current for the headlamps traveling through the AMP Gauge.
I see what you are doing. Running the load through the ammeter is just part of the problem. The way you are doing it you still can have voltage loss at the dimmer switch and connector as well as the bulkhead. The correct way is to use 2 relays for both high and low beams and bypass all the inherent weak areas the cars are known for.
I've never had any problem with the wiring past the light switch on these old cars. It is always the bulkhead-amp gauge-switch.
You are lucky. I have repaired many dimmer switch connectors and bulkheads were the high and low pass through. The dual relay is a true fix.
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Re: Four (4) Headlights on relay's ?........
#79773
06/27/08 01:06 AM
06/27/08 01:06 AM
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Anonymous
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Whoa....hold on here folks.
Let's try to keep this post to the 4 headlight question, and taking the load off the headlight switch.
Let's take the old ammeter out of the equation here (Mine is shunted) and works fine. I'm wired directly from alternator, through dash, and back out to fused starter relay stud (By passed 5 connectors). I'm good...works well.
My headlights are very bright at idle, and I want to take the load off the headlight switch.
Back to the relay question.
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Re: Four (4) Headlights on relay's ?........
#79774
06/27/08 01:25 AM
06/27/08 01:25 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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1- what barry posted is good to save the headlight switch BUT JUST THAT... as stated by Nitrous, high power is still running thought floor dimmer switches. We need to note that relays are to save load FROM SWITCHES since those are the weakest points. with that mod you still are using A SWITCH ( even a selector ) to feed headlights. Maybe that would work to regular beams, but definitelly NOT WITH HALOGENS or higher consumption lights kind. 2-wires and terminals EVEN SPADE ONES support the halogen and other higher consumption lights. In fact if you think THE ORIGINAL RELAY SETUP ALREADY USES spad ekind terminals, then why worry about bulkhead. Bulkhead is to worry on more than 40-50 amps loads. headlights never gets that. So once again as stated, relays are to save internal points of stock switches what are the real weak point. 3- feeding from batt will get wrong reading on ammeter and will overheat the bulkhead and ammeter since alt will be constantly recharging batt even when is not the bat what needs to be charged. Relays would it be the devices what simulates the batt discharge being on that side of the charging net. Feeding relays from alt side will make the load keeps OUT OF THE AMMETER.. of course that is if and just if you have a plenty powerfull alt. If not, then batt will be the device feeding and then the problem is backward, but still the same original had. BTW have all my relays inside the cab and still being feeded from ammeter stud, alt side. WORKS CHARMING!!! usefull reading: web page
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: Four (4) Headlights on relay's ?........
[Re: Ludington1]
#79776
08/03/08 11:16 PM
08/03/08 11:16 PM
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CRIMP CONNECTORS: The idea that PROPERLY crimped QUALITY connectors are inferior to soldered connectors is nonsense. Some of the most expensive test equipment and military equipment in the world uses crimp connections
RELAYS: You MUST use two, one for high and one for low, and put them as close to the lights / battery supply as possible, otherwise you defeat the purpose
69chargeryeehaa:
With respect, your installation is very poor practice. Connecting circuits to unprotected battery posts is a poor idea from the aspect of corrosion and intermittent problems down the line. The gassing from the battery will eventually seep into the relays--which are NOT sealed--and corrode the contacts and other connections. I hear others mounting electrical accessories under the battery tray, and this, too, is poor practice.
The relays should be away from engine heat as much as possible, protected from battery gases, and road splash.
PROBABLY, up high forward of the rad support is a condsideration. You might need to build a small sheet metal shield for road splash.
Also, if you use those self-resetting little rectangular breakers, REMEMBER--they are degraded in amperage by ENGINE HEAT. So are fuses. If you decide to mount them, for example, INSIDE the car, then you'll be faced with battling the ever present bulkhead connection--probably most of the problem in the first place.
Also, the factory wiring, both for tail lamps and headlights, is FAR FAR from what I'd use. I'd use at LEAST #14, even for tail lamps.
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Re: Four (4) Headlights on relay's ?........
#79777
08/04/08 12:07 AM
08/04/08 12:07 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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wherever you put the relays allways gets wins and loose factors...
-inside the cab, save from heat, dust, grease or corrosion and also gets a clean engine bay view but is true you loose some on distance but is not that critical.
about terminals... bulkhead terminals are able to drive the halogen beams power from relays. IF YOU THINk relays and plugs ALREADY use those spade terminals, why not the bulkhead if they are the same kind ?... just need to take care about the positive source coming from alt/batt... I use the alt source to keep the right reading on ammeter. ( yes I keep the ammeter )
-On engine bay, of course opposite pros and cons than above
I didn't cut wires, just removed the terminals from original plugs cavities and moved to relay plug, then run the same color and gauge wire from relay to original plug cavity to get everything back to normal.
Darren, relays are just to headlights, however you can use a realy for anything on your car, including parking lights.
I wouldn't use them for turning/hazzards. If you use a relay on turning/hazzards, flasher won't get same heat than normally gets with all bulbs load and will get a VERY slow blinker function ( if any blink ) because bimetallic on flasher never will heat. Just like when you don't have bulbs around ( or damaged ) and just cluster turn indicators... they never makes blink the flasher by themself, not enough load
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: Four (4) Headlights on relay's ?........
[Re: 68Cbarge]
#79779
08/04/08 08:07 AM
08/04/08 08:07 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 25,050 Texas
GoodysGotaCuda
5.7L Hemi, 6spd
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5.7L Hemi, 6spd
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Re: Four (4) Headlights on relay's ?........
[Re: Ludington1]
#79781
08/05/08 01:21 PM
08/05/08 01:21 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,168 Vancouver, WA
MoparMarq
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Quote:
Bringing this thread back from the dead... when you guys are putting in these relays for the headlights, are you putting the parking/turn signal lights on the relays also, or just leaving them on the factory harness?
Darren
Relays are just for the headlights, as they are high power draw items. No need for parking/turn signal lights, as they are low-current-draw. And relays on them would add unnecessary complexity.
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Re: Four (4) Headlights on relay's ?........
[Re: NachoRT74]
#79782
08/06/08 06:31 PM
08/06/08 06:31 PM
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Ludington1
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One more for this thread... what size of fuse are you guys putting between the alternator stud and the relays? Thanks, Darren
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Re: Four (4) Headlights on relay's ?........
[Re: Ludington1]
#79783
08/07/08 02:46 AM
08/07/08 02:46 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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you can use 14 without problem
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: Four (4) Headlights on relay's ?........
[Re: Ludington1]
#79785
08/07/08 09:52 AM
08/07/08 09:52 AM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,968 North Riverside IL & Lowell IN
GTXKen
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Quote:
One more for this thread... what size of fuse are you guys putting between the alternator stud and the relays?
Thanks, Darren
I'd have to look and get back to you on the size but mine has a fusable link and a fuse
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Re: Four (4) Headlights on relay's ?........
[Re: Ludington1]
#79786
08/07/08 10:07 AM
08/07/08 10:07 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 25,050 Texas
GoodysGotaCuda
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Quote:
One more for this thread... what size of fuse are you guys putting between the alternator stud and the relays?
Thanks, Darren
I have a 15a low beam and 20a high beam fuse. Depends on what bulbs you are running. Mine are aftermarket H4's.
If you take the resistance of the low beam filament, then divide 14 (avg voltage while running) by your resistance reading, then multiply it times to (bulbs). You will get the amperage draw for the low beams. I'd go up to the next size to account for any surge. And do the same for the high beam. (high beam filament will be lower resistance than the low beam).
Example
Bulb resistance 1.5ohms (just a random figure) Avg running voltage 14v
14v divided by 1.5ohms = 9.3a x 2 bulbs = 18.6a (i'd run a 20a fuse)
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