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Re: problems with 604" predator motor
[Re: MuscleMike]
#794810
09/07/10 01:39 PM
09/07/10 01:39 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,119
sc
tjmarcus1
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,119
sc
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Quote:
As I recall your original engine builder overfilled the block with hard block. The engine has oil pressure on start up but since it does not circulate water with a traditional water pump (block overfilled) the oil gets hot after idleing for 10-15 minutes and looses it viscosity. I believe I suguested you could circulate water thru the heads and run the engine for short periods of time. Or get a new block (that is not overfilled)
Mike @ MM
see! i knew muscle motors was too good not to find a problem 
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Re: problems with 604" predator motor
[Re: RT540]
#794812
09/07/10 04:23 PM
09/07/10 04:23 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
moparniac
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
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I thought there was muratic acid or whatever could eat that stuff out ...
Mopar Performance
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Re: problems with 604" predator motor
[Re: MuscleMike]
#794814
09/07/10 04:36 PM
09/07/10 04:36 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 778
Sherwood park, Alberta.
go green
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 778
Sherwood park, Alberta.
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Quote:
As I recall your original engine builder overfilled the block with hard block. The engine has oil pressure on start up but since it does not circulate water with a traditional water pump (block overfilled) the oil gets hot after idleing for 10-15 minutes and looses it viscosity. I believe I suguested you could circulate water thru the heads and run the engine for short periods of time. Or get a new block (that is not overfilled)
Mike @ MM
I cant see this being the problem but putting a temp gauge would settle the argument.
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Re: problems with 604" predator motor
[Re: MuscleMike]
#794815
09/07/10 05:07 PM
09/07/10 05:07 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 73
Hartford,MI
goody340g
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 73
Hartford,MI
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Quote:
As I recall your original engine builder overfilled the block with hard block. The engine has oil pressure on start up but since it does not circulate water with a traditional water pump (block overfilled) the oil gets hot after idleing for 10-15 minutes and looses it viscosity. I believe I suguested you could circulate water thru the heads and run the engine for short periods of time. Or get a new block (that is not overfilled)
Mike @ MM
mike talked to dad today and he did say that is what u guys came up with. i don't remember hearing anything about that at the time but i was just half a** helping them anyways. i apoligize if it sounded like i was knocking mm, that was not my intention, i know it is a pain to try a figure out somebody elses mess. i was just trying to pick some brains
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Re: problems with 604" predator motor
[Re: go green]
#794817
09/07/10 06:20 PM
09/07/10 06:20 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 73
Hartford,MI
goody340g
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 73
Hartford,MI
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Quote:
You cant diagnose the problem over the Internet with out a detailed parts list.
What lifter and how much lump on the camshaft.To much lift you might be windowing the lifter skirt to the oil (you should be safe to .470 with most lifters)
When you dropped the engine off did you give them permission to completely disassemble and rebuild the engine ?
Try a different pump ?
Cranking the pump by hand you should see 40 to 50 psi if not the oil should be hosing out from somewhere.
you should only see about a 10 psi drop from cold to hot.
i'll have to look up the specs on the cam, we tried many diff. pumps and gauges. so hopefully next week i'll have time to get it on a stand and prime it to see what the press. is cold
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Re: problems with 604" predator motor
[Re: goody340g]
#794818
09/07/10 06:21 PM
09/07/10 06:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Quote:
You cant diagnose the problem over the Internet with out a detailed parts list.
What lifter and how much lump on the camshaft.To much lift you might be windowing the lifter skirt to the oil (you should be safe to .470 with most lifters)
When you dropped the engine off did you give them permission to completely disassemble and rebuild the engine ?
Try a different pump ?
Cranking the pump by hand you should see 40 to 50 psi if not the oil should be hosing out from somewhere.
you should only see about a 10 psi drop from cold to hot.
i'll have to look up the specs on the cam, we tried many diff. pumps and gauges. so hopefully next week i'll have time to get it on a stand and prime it to see what the press. is cold
really what does it matter? you already know what the problem is 
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Re: problems with 604" predator motor
[Re: Quicktree]
#794820
09/07/10 08:20 PM
09/07/10 08:20 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 73
Hartford,MI
goody340g
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 73
Hartford,MI
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
You cant diagnose the problem over the Internet with out a detailed parts list.
What lifter and how much lump on the camshaft.To much lift you might be windowing the lifter skirt to the oil (you should be safe to .470 with most lifters)
When you dropped the engine off did you give them permission to completely disassemble and rebuild the engine ?
Try a different pump ?
Cranking the pump by hand you should see 40 to 50 psi if not the oil should be hosing out from somewhere.
you should only see about a 10 psi drop from cold to hot.
i'll have to look up the specs on the cam, we tried many diff. pumps and gauges. so hopefully next week i'll have time to get it on a stand and prime it to see what the press. is cold
really what does it matter? you already know what the problem is
if you r giving new blocks away it doesn't matter, until then we'll exhaust all options 
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Re: problems with 604" predator motor
[Re: goody340g]
#794821
09/07/10 08:41 PM
09/07/10 08:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
You cant diagnose the problem over the Internet with out a detailed parts list.
What lifter and how much lump on the camshaft.To much lift you might be windowing the lifter skirt to the oil (you should be safe to .470 with most lifters)
When you dropped the engine off did you give them permission to completely disassemble and rebuild the engine ?
Try a different pump ?
Cranking the pump by hand you should see 40 to 50 psi if not the oil should be hosing out from somewhere.
you should only see about a 10 psi drop from cold to hot.
i'll have to look up the specs on the cam, we tried many diff. pumps and gauges. so hopefully next week i'll have time to get it on a stand and prime it to see what the press. is cold
really what does it matter? you already know what the problem is
if you r giving new blocks away it doesn't matter, until then we'll exhaust all options
I r not giving any blocks away but somebody paid good money to figure out the problem, guess you are smarter than the guys at MM 
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Re: problems with 604" predator motor
[Re: go green]
#794825
09/07/10 09:52 PM
09/07/10 09:52 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
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A lot more info needs to be provide to conclude or asertain the possible causes.How is the oil pressure on cold startup,how long before the oil pressure drops,what is engine temperture,oil temperture,and what is the cause of the heat? As mentioned is the filled block the issue?What do the bearings look like?A lot of guess work can be avoided by check the above mentioned issues.Oil passage cracks,plugged or restrictions as well as cooling issues can cause similar issues.We have seen one bad main cap,a crack in the block main bore at the oil passage as well the issues at the lifter bores cause the loss of oil pressure.An easy analysis of the fluid tempertures(which get hot first)would be a good start.Check and recheck all oil pickups,pumps,filters.lines and passages.Check and recheck all cooling systems and passages also.We find many issues are caused by simple over looked things. 
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Re: problems with 604" predator motor
[Re: go green]
#794826
09/07/10 09:57 PM
09/07/10 09:57 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
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If it was my engine, I would add a few things and run it...What are you going to do junk the block? I would add a oil cooler, probably get the whole thing cheap if you look around. Next I would add alky injection, via Rons Terminator. Its the ultimate in hp over any carb setup. First hand experience says you will pickup substantial e/t with this I assume you already have a sheet metal intake so this would be easy. Make the best with what ya got.  The alky will take care of any cooling issues you have. Then the oil cooler will take care of oil temp issue's.
[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color]
[color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
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