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problems with 604" predator motor #794789
09/06/10 09:19 PM
09/06/10 09:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 73
Hartford,MI
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goody340g Offline OP
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goody340g  Offline OP
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Hartford,MI
Hey guys i've been out of racing for about 6 yrs but starting to get back into it, and after i stopped racing my dad built a 604" predator motor. He had a local guy build it (kalamazoo,mi), we never had any problems with him in the past, but we put this motor in the car and when u first started it it had oil pressure(20-30 lbs i think, it was about 4yrs ago so can't exactly remember) then when it warmed up no oil pressure. took back to the builder, tore it apart, put it back in, and same thing. so we take it out and take it to muscle motors, they find a couple small things they didn't like but nothing to do with oil pressure, we put it back in car and same thing no oil pressure. so my dad gets mad and buys a 622" indy and there the predator has set on the shop floor for about 4 yrs. has anybody ever had a problem like this. i think we need a new block, but all the parts were brand new (raised cam mega block). kinda sucks to buy another new block when nobody is sure of the problem. any ideas?

Re: problems with 604" predator motor [Re: goody340g] #794790
09/06/10 09:24 PM
09/06/10 09:24 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
I Live Here
Dragula  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
There are a lot of places the oil can go....

Are you in possesion of it right now? If not, then you need to resolve that first.

With that said, put it up on a stand and get a drill motor out and spin the oil pump. With the valve covers off, see what's going where..If nothing unusual, the remove the valley tray and take a look there.


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: problems with 604" predator motor [Re: Dragula] #794791
09/06/10 09:30 PM
09/06/10 09:30 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 528
Oak Grove, MN
lowflyingdart Offline
mopar
lowflyingdart  Offline
mopar

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 528
Oak Grove, MN
Check the lifters,they can uncover the oil galley if the lifter bores are not bushed. This usally happens at max lift, the window for the roller can uncover the oil galley and you will losse oil pressure.


"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." Thomas A. Edison
Re: problems with 604" predator motor [Re: lowflyingdart] #794792
09/06/10 09:45 PM
09/06/10 09:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,333
Kalamazoo, MI
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StrokedW7 Offline
top fuel
StrokedW7  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,333
Kalamazoo, MI
Just out of curiosity... Who in Kalamazoo would you trust with a Predator motor?


Steven M. Hamacher, CPA, MST
For ALL your tax, accounting, and payroll needs
www.Kalamazoo-CPA.com
Re: problems with 604" predator motor [Re: StrokedW7] #794793
09/06/10 09:57 PM
09/06/10 09:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 73
Hartford,MI
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goody340g Offline OP
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Hartford,MI
Quote:

Just out of curiosity... Who in Kalamazoo would you trust with a Predator motor?




Randy Rutgers. He built our 511 B1 and 498 Indy motors and we never had any problems with him. and at first we were pissed, thats why we took it to muscle motors. we thought they would fix it no problem. not the case. I don't want people to think i'm trying to bashing either of them. i just want to get it fixed, it makes me sick to see it just setting there.

Re: problems with 604" predator motor [Re: Dragula] #794794
09/06/10 10:05 PM
09/06/10 10:05 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 73
Hartford,MI
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goody340g Offline OP
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Hartford,MI
Quote:

There are a lot of places the oil can go....

Are you in possesion of it right now? If not, then you need to resolve that first.

With that said, put it up on a stand and get a drill motor out and spin the oil pump. With the valve covers off, see what's going where..If nothing unusual, the remove the valley tray and take a look there.





it is sitting on our shop floor. i'm pretty sure we did all that before but ur right it would be a good starting point now.

Re: problems with 604" predator motor [Re: goody340g] #794795
09/06/10 10:10 PM
09/06/10 10:10 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,116
sc
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tjmarcus1 Offline
top fuel
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Posts: 2,116
sc
i am really surprised that MM didn't find the problem!!!! was he aware of the oil pressure prob.?

Re: problems with 604" predator motor [Re: tjmarcus1] #794796
09/06/10 10:13 PM
09/06/10 10:13 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
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HPMike Offline
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NJ-USA


Quote:

i am really surprised that MM didn't find the problem!!!! was he aware of the oil pressure prob.?






I would have thought that an engine of this type would HAVE to have been sorted out on the dyno before leaving the shop.

MB

Re: problems with 604" predator motor [Re: tjmarcus1] #794797
09/06/10 10:15 PM
09/06/10 10:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,200
UK
6
602heavy Offline
pro stock
602heavy  Offline
pro stock
6

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,200
UK
Pull the valley plate , prime the motor & i'm sure all will be revealed.

Re: problems with 604" predator motor [Re: tjmarcus1] #794798
09/06/10 10:16 PM
09/06/10 10:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 73
Hartford,MI
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goody340g Offline OP
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Hartford,MI
Quote:

i am really surprised that MM didn't find the problem!!!! was he aware of the oil pressure prob.?




yes, that was the reason we took it to them.

Re: problems with 604" predator motor [Re: goody340g] #794799
09/06/10 10:20 PM
09/06/10 10:20 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,840
Flint, Michigan
B1Fish540 Offline
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B1Fish540  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,840
Flint, Michigan
Quote:

Quote:

i am really surprised that MM didn't find the problem!!!! was he aware of the oil pressure prob.?




yes, that was the reason we took it to them.




Thats unacceptable..whats wrong with Mike, anyway..shheesh...

Re: problems with 604" predator motor [Re: HPMike] #794800
09/06/10 10:30 PM
09/06/10 10:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 73
Hartford,MI
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goody340g Offline OP
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goody340g  Offline OP
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 73
Hartford,MI
Quote:



Quote:

i am really surprised that MM didn't find the problem!!!! was he aware of the oil pressure prob.?






I would have thought that an engine of this type would HAVE to have been sorted out on the dyno before leaving the shop.


yes i would agree with you we should have put it on the dyno. i think my bro. and i wanted to but pops didn't want to. maybe i can talk him into it this go around.
MB



Re: problems with 604" predator motor [Re: goody340g] #794801
09/06/10 10:33 PM
09/06/10 10:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 55
North Carolina
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keelsracing Offline
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Posts: 55
North Carolina
sorry this may be a dumb question but have to ask this is a raised cam block so how is the oil pump driven and what/whos pump is it?

Re: problems with 604" predator motor [Re: keelsracing] #794802
09/06/10 10:41 PM
09/06/10 10:41 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 644
Minnesota
Barnstorm Offline
mopar
Barnstorm  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 644
Minnesota
I'll send the truck tomorrow. I've gotta run 8.50's for our Rotten Bros. annual....seriously it's probably something simple..2 engine builders see nothing wrong?


The little old lady from Pasadena is back!
Re: problems with 604" predator motor [Re: goody340g] #794803
09/06/10 10:42 PM
09/06/10 10:42 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,443
Maryland
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Dads426 Offline
pro stock
Dads426  Offline
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,443
Maryland
A friend had a similar problem (low pressure) with a World block, although it can happen with any block; the oil passage from the galley to the main journal was drilled incorrectly, or the casting had an inclusion where the oil under pressure was escaping in the crankcase. The only way to find it was to put it on a stand and lube it with a drill, pan removed and a remote oil resevoir to see where the oil was going.

If the valvetrain checks out and there are no blocked oil passages, that would be my next step. BTW, they heard of two occasions where an internal leak from a bad block caused low pressure.



2012 422 Allstars NSS Champion
2013 422 Allstars NSS Champion
2014 422 Allstars NSS Champion
Re: problems with 604" predator motor [Re: Dads426] #794804
09/06/10 10:44 PM
09/06/10 10:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 242
Upland, California
Spode Offline
enthusiast
Spode  Offline
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Posts: 242
Upland, California
heck if its just sitting there holding a door open ill pay for shipping if you dont want it LOL

Last edited by Spode; 09/06/10 10:44 PM.
Re: problems with 604" predator motor [Re: Spode] #794805
09/06/10 11:01 PM
09/06/10 11:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
WILD BILL Offline
Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
WILD BILL  Offline
Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
Quote:

heck if its just sitting there holding a door open ill pay for shipping if you dont want it LOL





To heck with shipping, I'll come pick it up

Re: problems with 604" predator motor [Re: WILD BILL] #794806
09/06/10 11:08 PM
09/06/10 11:08 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
I Live Here
Dragula  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
What are the spec's on that beast, and what was the plan for it? I have admirred the couple of them that I have seen, but they are no longer in my budget range. Last one I saw had the cast single 4500 intake on it and an SV1 carb on it. Looks like the carburated version of Ron's flying toilet, looked really awesome. No better way to make +900hp with a single 4bl in my limited experience with big engines. Biggest engines I usually get to work on are 528 Hemi's...All kinds of interesting things happen with those when it comes to oiling.



'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: problems with 604" predator motor [Re: keelsracing] #794807
09/07/10 09:33 AM
09/07/10 09:33 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 73
Hartford,MI
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goody340g Offline OP
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goody340g  Offline OP
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 73
Hartford,MI
Quote:

sorry this may be a dumb question but have to ask this is a raised cam block so how is the oil pump driven and what/whos pump is it?




we tried stock and indy pumps, and they are driven by the dist. gear

Re: problems with 604" predator motor [Re: goody340g] #794808
09/07/10 10:02 AM
09/07/10 10:02 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline
master
B G Racing  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA

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