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Re: new Hemi conversion vs 440 stroker
[Re: RTSrunner]
#788065
08/31/10 02:36 AM
08/31/10 02:36 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 571
Beaverton, OR, USA
Alikazam
super gas
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super gas
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 571
Beaverton, OR, USA
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Personally I really like my 6.1L hemi and would not think twice about swapping one in if I were in a position to do so. The heads flow 300 cfm on the intake side without any porting! Stock they churn out 425 hp. A "couple" of bolt ons (good exhaust, intake, tuner, etc.) you can get upwards of 400 whp and 400 wtq out of them. If you go the carb route, may be able to "tune it" even easier. I would go 6.1 or 440. Not the 5.7 as it has MDS and the '09 up have VVT and not sure how you would control that if you stayed with a carb set-up. But the '09 up 5.7 heads are said to be even better than the 6.1L heads. A decently tuned 6.1L with bolt ons will DEFINITELY keep up with a "mild" 440, but a stroker is another story. My buddy with a "stock long block" 6.1L SRT8 charger running E85 has hit a best of 11.85 in his car on slicks, lightening the car up some (no rear seat, carbon fiber trunk lid, etc.), Cold air intake, torque converter and a 90mm throttle body. Good luck! 
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Re: new Hemi conversion vs 440 stroker
[Re: RTSrunner]
#788066
08/31/10 08:24 AM
08/31/10 08:24 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
I think it's more HP per dollar for the stroker.The $3k hemi is a 345hp engine,the $8k stroker 440 is more like 500+hp.Considering you have a big block installed in the car now,the 440 bolts in,while the hemi needs to adapt.You need a new trans,motor mounts,wiring and an aftermarket ignition and fuel controller if you want more hp,exhaust,etc.it adds up!I like the new hemi,but if it comes down to $'s,you have a lot of BB part ready to go.
RT
you don't need to spend 8k on a 440. Do yourself a huge favor and look at some used parts and look at some magazine articals on 440 builds before you start writting checks. A mild 440 build (non-stroked) in your E-body and you should be well into the 12's. Not a chance your new Hemi can match that.
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Re: new Hemi conversion vs 440 stroker
[Re: torqueaddict]
#788069
08/31/10 09:11 AM
08/31/10 09:11 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,577
Long Island, NY USA
BergmanAutoCraft
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,577
Long Island, NY USA
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The new hemi is great, but don't forget that its not the price of the motor that is the cost of the conversion.
First, if you want EFI, the OE harness needs expensive mods to stand alone, along with a cable converter for the fly by wire. Otherwise its carb kits which work great too. If the motor is MDS, that will need to be removed as well. The hemi must use and electric fuel pump also.
Getting it into the car requires mounts, headers, oil pan, sb trans, conversion flexplate and radiator+electric fan. These all add up too.
The transmission is small block pattern, so your BB 727 wont work either. You will also need to convert the kickdown to cable, as none of the OE brackets fit.
If you are confortable addressing these items then go for it. A simple cam/spring swap will net 425 hp easy on a 5.7.
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Re: new Hemi conversion vs 440 stroker
[Re: torqueaddict]
#788071
08/31/10 09:33 AM
08/31/10 09:33 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
you don't need to spend 8k on a 440. Do yourself a huge favor and look at some used parts and look at some magazine articals on 440 builds before you start writting checks. A mild 440 build (non-stroked) in your E-body and you should be well into the 12's. Not a chance your new Hemi can match that.
So how much would a mild 440 cost? I dont see doing a big block even without a stroker for less than another 4k in parts and a 1k in labor I am open to the 440 build its just not as cheap as everyone seems to think. If I had a 440 already and could reuse my car intake and so on then it could be cheaper but since I need all that it just looks really expensive. As for the new motor if I get it for between 2-3 k I dont see spending much more to get it in. I am just playing devils advocate and trying to get the best powerplant possible.
I bought this short block here on Moparts w/ a total of 8 runs. 4 on dyno 4 at the track for $1500 SHIPPED. It is a decked, squared balanced blueprinted .030 over 440 w/ Diamond pistons. I bough a set of ported 516 heads w/ 2.14/1.81 valves NEVER USED for $400. They flow great. Before I decided to go w/ a six-pack I had a used Torker II $75, used 750HP carb $350, New Summit headers $109, 3" exhaust $230, I spent $190 on a custom solid cam, but you can get a nice hydro w/ lifters for that. I also have a set of 1.5 roller rockers I bought new at Carlise for $150, but stock is fine as well. So how much is that? $2774 (not including exhaust) Even with the 6 pack I'm still under 5k. This should make pretty close to 500hp or more. What's wrong w/ your 383? You'd be surprised what a cam, intake, a GOOD carb (read no Eddy 750) headers and a good tune can do to an old 383. Add a 2800 stall and some gears and that thing will move out. My buddy took his 100k+ 383 2bbl 69 Charger and added a Summit t-chain set, 488 cam, headers, M1 intake and a 670 Demon carb and a set of 3.55's and ran 14.10 driving like grandma. The car could have easlily ran 13.70's with some slicks and if he was a little more aggressive w/ it. Keep in mind that's with a stock 383 2bbl convert and ollllld 727 trans.
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Re: new Hemi conversion vs 440 stroker
[Re: torqueaddict]
#788072
08/31/10 09:38 AM
08/31/10 09:38 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,974
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,974
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
You are right the bigger $ will get bigger hp but I just dont see how the costs are even close the Hemi conversion seems cheaper. I even called 440source and they said I can return the heads with a restocking fee. I know the 440 will run like a raped ape but the question is more about cost effectivness. Also I will never take my car to the track so driving on the street is really what I want out of my car I would not mind a 440 I just dont wanna spend 8k to do it
You have been all over the map with your questions since you have joined this forum. I have to ask, how old are you ?
The first red flag I see is your thought that you can pay someone 3k to put a new generation hemi in your car ... good luck with that.
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Re: new Hemi conversion vs 440 stroker
[Re: HotRodDave]
#788075
08/31/10 01:03 PM
08/31/10 01:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
The 5.7 is significantly lighter than a small block not to mention a big block. Secondly you can easily run a 904 instead of the 727 and lose even more weight and put more of your HP to the wheels. Probably be about as fast as a mild big block and handle WAAAAAAAAY better and get better MPG(don't know how much you drive I am just mentioning it).
Your car will be close to 1000 lbs lighter than a challenger witch by the way can run very low 13s bone stock, you would be makeing more HP to boot.
BS 1000lbs? Last I checked he'll be running aluminum heads, intake and probably H2O pump. Facts is facts the stock 5.7 makes about 340 hp and 375 lb·ft give or take.
"And the power plant is 56 pounds lighter than its predecessor."...the 360 magunum.
Were's that 1000 lbs at? It still has a cast iron block. Plus they make power higher in the rpms so he will need a expensive stall. The good stall for the newer Hemis start at $800!
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Re: new Hemi conversion vs 440 stroker
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#788077
08/31/10 04:01 PM
08/31/10 04:01 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 185
east bay ca
torqueaddict
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 185
east bay ca
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Quote:
As John states, getting for 2-3k and getting into your car and making everything work are 2 different things. Leave those New Gen Hemi swaps to the resto-mod guys. Oh and your 383 intake will not owrk w/ a 440 or a RB. You could always stroke your 383 ya know.
I said if I buy all the parts to make it happen I do not think it will cost more than 3k in labor. I also clearly said I would have to buy everything for a 440 build ( I am giving the 383 to my brother) and that makes it not just a swap, the only thing that makes that build easier is the bb motor mounts. Look guys I really appreciate you guys help, Thanks for any and all comments.
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Re: new Hemi conversion vs 440 stroker
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#788078
08/31/10 05:06 PM
08/31/10 05:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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Quote:
Quote:
The 5.7 is significantly lighter than a small block not to mention a big block. Secondly you can easily run a 904 instead of the 727 and lose even more weight and put more of your HP to the wheels. Probably be about as fast as a mild big block and handle WAAAAAAAAY better and get better MPG(don't know how much you drive I am just mentioning it).
Your car will be close to 1000 lbs lighter than a challenger witch by the way can run very low 13s bone stock, you would be makeing more HP to boot.
BS 1000lbs? Last I checked he'll be running aluminum heads, intake and probably H2O pump. Facts is facts the stock 5.7 makes about 340 hp and 375 lb·ft give or take.
"And the power plant is 56 pounds lighter than its predecessor."...the 360 magunum.
Were's that 1000 lbs at? It still has a cast iron block. Plus they make power higher in the rpms so he will need a expensive stall. The good stall for the newer Hemis start at $800!
Thanks for jumping down my back with out ever paying atention to what I said. 
Here it is in real simple english, An old challenger with a 5.7 and 904 will weigh close to 1000 lbs less than the 09 challenger. The 09 challenger will run very low 13s bone stock, now imagine with nearly 1000lbs less weight how much faster that same motor will propell a car 
Now on top of that the 5.7 does make lots of power upstairs, but it is no slouch in the low RPM range,a factory high stall 904 converter will work great, there may be slightly better choices if you want to spend $800 (same with a 500 inch BB, it will drive through a stock converter)but for a nearly stock 5.7 with a carb conversion and headers it will work great.
XV motor sports gets 360 hp from them with a carb conversion with too small of a carb. Put on a bigger carb and headers and you will be close to 400hp. Heck a camand spring swap can net you 420hp in that configuration.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: new Hemi conversion vs 440 stroker
[Re: HotRodDave]
#788080
08/31/10 06:03 PM
08/31/10 06:03 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 757
Toronto, Ont, Canada
boydsdodge
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 757
Toronto, Ont, Canada
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Are you building a race care or a great street cruiser? If you are building a great street cruiser then I'd say go with a 6.1 if you can get it or the 5.7 with a carb up top. If you are building a Race car then go with the tried and true stroked 440. I was at at seminar with Herb McCandless and he has done the late model hemi swap in a few cars and can't say enough about it for a great street car, he had his 1960 Chrysler 300 with him and he has installed a late hemi in it with Holly carb getting 20mpg from his place in N.C up to New Hamburg Ontario. It looked great and he was talking about how the costs were coming down and that power was going up with the aftermarket supplying more to the market. Indy Heads has a drop in kit with what you need, as well TTI sells the engine mounts and exhaust for B/E bodies. This is not what I have any experience with first hand but thought I'd put it out there for you to continue your research. If it was me and I hadn't just built my stroker small block I'd go late 6.1 carb. Good luck, but ask your self if you are building a car to drive to big shows with great power or are you building a race car. 
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Re: new Hemi conversion vs 440 stroker
[Re: HotRodDave]
#788082
08/31/10 09:31 PM
08/31/10 09:31 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,872
connecticut
pnypwr
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,872
connecticut
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i got 400 hp and 500 ft lbs out of a used 440 short...trw forged flattops 60 down in the hole, set of 516 closed chamber heads with a mild prot and gasket match, had the bigger valves put in, stock iron sixpack, msd 6al and a set of hooker comp headers...total investment with the sixpack 2800 bucks you should be able to get alot more out of a stroker with the right parts for 8k
"Are you gonna bark all day lil doggy? Or are you gonna bite?"
05 ram 2500 ctd
74 gremlin x 360
65 mustang 347
70 coronet R/T 440
03 Mach 1
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Re: new Hemi conversion vs 440 stroker
[Re: boydsdodge]
#788083
09/01/10 12:28 AM
09/01/10 12:28 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 185
east bay ca
torqueaddict
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 185
east bay ca
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Quote:
Are you building a race care or a great street cruiser?
If you are building a great street cruiser then I'd say go with a 6.1 if you can get it or the 5.7 with a carb up top.
If you are building a Race car then go with the tried and true stroked 440.
I was at at seminar with Herb McCandless and he has done the late model hemi swap in a few cars and can't say enough about it for a great street car,
he had his 1960 Chrysler 300 with him and he has installed a late hemi in it with Holly carb getting 20mpg from his place in N.C up to New Hamburg Ontario.
It looked great and he was talking about how the costs were coming down and that power was going up with the aftermarket supplying more to the market.
Indy Heads has a drop in kit with what you need, as well TTI sells the engine mounts and exhaust for B/E bodies. This is not what I have any experience with first hand but thought I'd put it out there for you to continue your research.
If it was me and I hadn't just built my stroker small block I'd go late 6.1 carb.
Good luck, but ask your self if you are building a car to drive to big shows with great power or are you building a race car.
I am really building a street car with good power, I did some research and I would be paying around 917 for the motor mounts, flexplate and bolts, cam, plus the oil pan and pick up. I can get a rebuilt sb 727 for 500 with 4 pinion gears. Am I missing something I am going with a carb too by the way, gentlemen tell me what I am missing
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Re: new Hemi conversion vs 440 stroker
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#788084
09/01/10 03:14 AM
09/01/10 03:14 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 571
Beaverton, OR, USA
Alikazam
super gas
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super gas
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 571
Beaverton, OR, USA
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Quote:
...but I'll stand by this
"The 09 challenger will run very low 13s bone stock"
It will not ... maybe the SRT-8. Stock 5.7 Challengers run 13.80's at best. Hey I like my 5.7 in my Magnum R/T AWD. It's a great motor and I almost have the 4700lb sled in the 13's but not a chance I'd try that swap.
Hate to break it to you but they upped the horsepower on the '09 and up 5.7's (375 hp approx) and they really do run low to mid 13's (13.3 - 13.4) bone stock with a good launch. Dodgetony pulled out his air filter and ran a best of 13.1 bone stock and a couple guys out there with a tuner, cat back exhaust, air intake kit and a couple other bolt ons have run mid 12's on 5.7 R/T challengers. Check out www.challengertalk.com if you want to find out more
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