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Re: HEI module...
[Re: '84 D150 Shorty]
#779086
08/20/10 08:39 PM
08/20/10 08:39 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,261
ILL
mark7171
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,261
ILL
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Crisp, Clean, and no Caffiene. If you do not want to spend the money for the excellent FBO system, this is a strong second choice. The way to make a start stand ignition stsyem too. Works super. link page 
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Re: HEI module...
[Re: RapidRobert]
#779088
08/21/10 01:03 AM
08/21/10 01:03 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 738
TN
'84 D150 Shorty
OP
Pickup Man
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OP
Pickup Man
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 738
TN
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Quote:
Quote:
How did you mount it? Are you using a heat sink?
Mount it on a piece of aluminum plate w some dielectric clear grease in between for the heat sink (required). Some one either on here or eGay sells a plate to mount it under the dist for twenty some dollars but just make your own & bolt it to the bottom of the dist & yes mounting it under the dist is the perfect place for it. The one I originally used was one from a '75 chebby 350 eng w the 4 identical 1/4" male terminals.
Mounting under the dizzy sounds perfect! Got any pics of yours?
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Re: HEI module...
[Re: RapidRobert]
#779090
08/21/10 09:25 AM
08/21/10 09:25 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 709
St Louis, MO 63026
convx4
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 709
St Louis, MO 63026
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Working on this, and have done a lot of research. Slantsix.org has a great page with lots of info. http://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28732&highlight=heiUse the links in the first post for more info and parts list. I have about $80 invested and on my third design of a coil mounting bracket. I would like it to fit in the stock location. And might mount the HEI where the the ballast resistor was. I am tired of not being able to get parts at any parts store, (We have to order that). I want reliability so I can drive my cars any where. Adding relays for the head lights was the second best improvement To any old mopar in my opinion. First is having the steering box rebuilt by steer and gear.
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Re: HEI module...
[Re: '84 D150 Shorty]
#779093
08/22/10 01:29 AM
08/22/10 01:29 AM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,202
California
polkat
mopar addict
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mopar addict
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,202
California
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Yea, slantsix.org has this fully covered. Here's the best page on that site. http://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15779I made the unit below for my 73 Dart. It was wired like explained on slantsix including the relay. Notice the heatsink underneith and the electic grease under the module. Important stuff. Some guys just bolt the module to the inner fender to act as a heatsink, but I burned a few that way. This heatsink was adopted from a computer CPU heatsink. Worked great, if a little ugly (that can be fixed), and I've always copied it in every Mopar I've owned since.
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Re: HEI module...
[Re: '84 D150 Shorty]
#779094
08/22/10 02:20 AM
08/22/10 02:20 AM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,501
Gainesville,FL
goldmember
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,501
Gainesville,FL
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Quote:
Ok, now don't start hatin on me for thinkin it, but...I am fixing to install a GM HEI module on my truck *gasp* I was wondering if anybody else has done it, and do ya have pics? The wiring looks like it is very straightforward, and it will clear some clutter and simplify my wiring harness and hopefully ease the engines electrical needs.... don't be embarressed if you have GM parts on yer mopar! How did you mount it? Are you using a heat sink? Did you retain your original as a backup? Or did you remove your ECU system completely (which is what I'm thinking of doing)? 
In 1984-85 when doing this mod,I simply mounted the HEI in a position to gain a little airflow,not a big deal really.
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Re: HEI module...
[Re: RapidRobert]
#779104
08/23/10 09:54 AM
08/23/10 09:54 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,481
Mesa, AZ
Pat_Whalen
super gas
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super gas
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,481
Mesa, AZ
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Quote:
Quote:
All the good information has been posted regarding the HEI swap. What I will post is that di-electric grease should not be used between the HEI module and the heatsink. Thermal paste should be.
I stand corrected as yes you are transfering heat not voltage (the 2 mounting screws ground it). Who/what/where can I get thermal paste for this one I'm doing and since I only need a wipe of it on this one module what kind of shop uses it so if need be I'll hit them up for a slight amt.
Here is a source for one of the "better" thermal pastes out there:
http://www.amazon.com/Arctic-Silver-Polysynthetic-Thermal-Compound/dp/B002CZAPUQ
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Re: HEI module...
[Re: RapidRobert]
#779108
08/24/10 01:28 AM
08/24/10 01:28 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,481
Mesa, AZ
Pat_Whalen
super gas
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super gas
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,481
Mesa, AZ
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Not necessary at all to use an e-core coil. The e-core coil has a couple of benefits over a standard oil filled canister style coil. Due to the fact that the e-core is arranged in much more of a true transformer fashion than that of the canister, it is able to maintain relatively high voltage output while also increasing a higher current output. Consider this the "best of both worlds". The ability to produce a strong, high voltage spark in high cylinder pressure applications. The lower resistance of the e-core also means less heat and a quicker charge, perfect for CD-type ignitions. It also doesn't get hot (at all) like a standard canister-type coil, and (despite the argument that wages on), the e-core coil can be mounted in any position without the threat of leakage (In fact, the e-core is epoxy filled, so it hasn't got anything to leak). Here is a quote from a Corvette tech page (eek!): Quote:
According to industry experts, coils have always had to compromise voltage output against current output. More voltage increases the initial ionization of the spark plug gap, but lowers the amount of current or heat that follows across the plug gap. When a coil is designed to produce more current, the voltage output generally suffers, which taxes the ease of ionizing the gap. In order to accomplish a combination of high voltage and current, the latest coils incorporate a special "E-core" winding design. This is an efficient design that more closely resembles the windings in a true transformer. In this system, less loss occurs during the transfer of electricity due to the closed core of the coil.
Given this technology, an "E" style coil produces spark with both high voltage and current. Another benefit is the coils run extremely cool, even at high rpm. This is due to the efficiency of the design, as well as the large laminations (Laminations are the heat sink-style "fins" on the outside of the coil body).
Link to that page:
http://www.corvettefever.com/techarticles/ignition_coil_info/index.html
A link to Summit's offering of e-core coils:
http://www.summitracing.com/search/Depar...re/?Ns=Rank|Asc
An MSD Blaster SS E-core coil:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MSD-8207/
And a Mallory E-Core:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MAA-30441/?rtype=10
Long story short: If you have the opportunity to upgrade your ignition coil to an e-core.
Hope this helps 
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Re: HEI module...
[Re: RapidRobert]
#779109
08/24/10 01:36 AM
08/24/10 01:36 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 738
TN
'84 D150 Shorty
OP
Pickup Man
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OP
Pickup Man
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 738
TN
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Quote:
Quote:
Is it necessary to use the e-core coil? If so, where can it be found? I know nothing about this type of coil.
X2
Ok, ill explain it best I can... you don't HAVE to use the e-core, but you can make the most of the HEI by using it.
Your typical canister coil falls into two catagories. 1) .5 ohms primary resistance 2) 1 - 1.5 ohms primary resistance. Most performance aftermarket coils and early chysler coils are .5 ohm coils. The late model chrysler coils are in the 1.5 catagory. The ballast resistor turns the .5 ohms of resistance into 1.5 ohms resistance. The reason: at .5 ohms the canistor coil will overheat and cook itself to death.
The e-core coil: resistance is .5 ohms BUT due to its design, will not cook itself allowing it to operate with less resistance, and therefore with more powerful spark.
A canistor coil CAN be used with the HEI. If it is a coil used with the chrysler ECU or a .5 ohm aftermarket coil, you MUST retain the ballast resistor. If it is a late model coil, as used in chrylser "lean burn" systems, you don't need the ballast, cuz the coil is already 1.5 ohms. However doing it this limits the potential of the HEI upgrade. Using the e-core will use the full potential of the HEI module. The e-core desgn is used on chevys and fords. The e-core I will be after is on 1996-2000 chevy trucks and suvs, and possibly many others. Reason: uses a sealed connector, and has three wires: coil + coil - and tach. I will post a pic of some e-core coils here momentarily 
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Re: HEI module...
[Re: '84 D150 Shorty]
#779111
08/24/10 01:50 PM
08/24/10 01:50 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,305
Lakewood, Colorado
herkamer
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,305
Lakewood, Colorado
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Here's how I did mine. Set up for Megasquirt to control the timing, so hopefully the emissions goons don't notice the extra 3 wires going into box.  Doubt they will, they aren't terribly smart.
Matt
69 Dart Swinger 340
83 W350, Megasquirted with 46RH
Old news: 72 Demon street/race mobile
Latest: 70 Duster backhalf car
and even more
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Re: HEI module...
[Re: mark7171]
#779112
08/25/10 04:10 PM
08/25/10 04:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,816
Alton, IL
Dakota_Don
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,816
Alton, IL
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Quote:
Crisp, Clean, and no Caffiene.
If you do not want to spend the money for the excellent FBO system, this is a strong second choice. The way to make a start stand ignition stsyem too. Works super.
I wouldnt call the FBO sustem exellent.. more of a POS.waste of money. I got less then 3k miles before the box blew.. it now has the chrome box on it, and that was 10k miles ago..pluss my dist didnt work well and he also sent it to me with-out a vac-advance.. 
link page
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Re: HEI module...
[Re: RapidRobert]
#779115
08/26/10 01:41 AM
08/26/10 01:41 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,261
ILL
mark7171
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,261
ILL
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If running a old style coil a ballast is needed for ideal operations. The accel 4 pin HEI control is just as good. No "special" thermal paste needed. A dab of CPU stuff for computers is fine. Here is a bottom pic  Wiring in the picture is all. That is IT. Connect a positive wire to the + side of the coil and done. 15-20 minutes tops. Invisible back under there. 
Last edited by mark7171; 08/26/10 01:50 AM.
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Re: HEI module...
[Re: 70duster340]
#779116
08/26/10 10:36 AM
08/26/10 10:36 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 738
TN
'84 D150 Shorty
OP
Pickup Man
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OP
Pickup Man
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 738
TN
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Quote:
Does this installation need a heat sink to work?
Its recommended but some have gotten away without it (but some haven't.....)
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Re: HEI module...
[Re: MadMatt]
#779118
08/27/10 04:03 PM
08/27/10 04:03 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,249
Las Vegas
JeffC
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,249
Las Vegas
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Quote:
I'm currently running the MP version of the MSD 6AL and an MSD canister type Blaster Coil with a Mallory sourced Mopar style electronic distributor. Would the conversion to the HEI setup offer any gains or advantages over what I have now? 
No, that would be a step backward.
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Re: HEI module...
[Re: 70duster340]
#779122
08/28/10 05:43 PM
08/28/10 05:43 PM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,590
Piqua, Ohio
dodgeram440
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,590
Piqua, Ohio
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Not to detract from this conversion in any way, but there is another way to get the same results just by replacing the distributor. I did this on my 86 D100 318 to eliminate the ESC computer. I got the distributor from Ebay for less than $60 and hook up is as easy as a hot wire going to the coil and the two wires from the dist hook up to the coil. It uses a gm style module (although not an exact gm copy, the terminals are on the side instead of on the ends) mounted under the little housing on the side. I used an MSD Blaster 3 coil that did not require a balast so I did not have to add one, or you could also use an e-coil which the sellers also offer. Doing this swap has been a huge improvement over the stock system. It has helped with the hesitation, though I still have some carb issues, the idle has smoothed out considerably, and the tach needle is now rock steady. Although I went with this option with my small block, when I get the 440 swapped in (IF I ever get the 440 swapped in. Where's the OverHaulin' gang when you need them?!) I do plan on using a stock distributor (or maybe a billet replacement, eventually) and the gm HEI module conversion as outlined. I know this HEI distributor is available for the big blocks also, but I don't really want that big housing sticking out on the front of my engine. I would prefer something a little more stealthy.   
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Re: HEI module...
[Re: dodgeram440]
#779123
08/28/10 05:48 PM
08/28/10 05:48 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 862
Iowa State fan
kilroy
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 862
Iowa State fan
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Can someone explain the ohms need on a coil? there is a .25, .5, and 1.5. I would like to use one of the hot ecoils but I dont understand which ohm I should use. Im using electronic ignition w/ chrome box.
1973 Charger, former SE, former auto
I'm not trying to be difficult, it comes naturally....
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Re: HEI module...
[Re: kilroy]
#779126
08/30/10 01:20 PM
08/30/10 01:20 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 738
TN
'84 D150 Shorty
OP
Pickup Man
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OP
Pickup Man
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 738
TN
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Quote:
Can someone explain the ohms need on a coil? there is a .25, .5, and 1.5. I would like to use one of the hot ecoils but I dont understand which ohm I should use. Im using electronic ignition w/ chrome box.
You can use the late model coils, for example, a coil for a 92 dodge truck would work perfectly, and would eliminate the ballast
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Re: HEI module...
[Re: 70duster340]
#779127
08/30/10 01:24 PM
08/30/10 01:24 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 738
TN
'84 D150 Shorty
OP
Pickup Man
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OP
Pickup Man
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 738
TN
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Quote:
Can anybody advise of any brackets that may be available for the e-core coil to be mounted in the stock location? 
You'll have to get a E-core coil bracket and then modify it
I am in the middle of doing this swap today....will post pics
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Re: HEI module...*updated, done!*
[Re: '84 D150 Shorty]
#779129
08/31/10 10:21 AM
08/31/10 10:21 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 738
TN
'84 D150 Shorty
OP
Pickup Man
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OP
Pickup Man
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 738
TN
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OK folks, its now (for me) no longer a can it be done topic, but a "i dunnit" topic lol. After several hours of painstaking work, The truck is running on the HEI module....and let me say, wow. I wasnt sure that it would make a huge difference, but it did! Acceleration is is crisper, idle is better (i actually had to turn the idle down a tad!), and over all just feels more responsive! If you decide to do it, you be the judge. Now, on to how i dunnit. First things, first. The parts. I decided I was going touse an e-corecoil, because i wanted maximum benefits. I decided on a coil from a 1996-2000 chebby pickup or SUV because it has a a bracket, and a mounting place with a heat sinc for the module ($25 at the wrecking yard))! I installed an MSD HEI module that a buddy gave me (free, but you can get an HEI moduleat O'Reilly's for $25). And of coarse, wiring connectors and other realted supplies. My install is a little more involved because of the setup i chose, and because i modified (or simplified actually) my engine harness. I decided come hell or high water, this was gonna work, and i removed the wiring for the ballast resisitor and the ecu, as well as the original coil wires. You dont have to do this, you can choose to leave your original wiring just in case.
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Re: HEI module...
[Re: 340SHORTY]
#779145
08/31/10 09:02 PM
08/31/10 09:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,443
70duster340
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,443
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I really appreciate all the time you spent taking pics and drawing wiring diagrams. I am planning on doing this conversion once I get around to reinstalling the engine in my Duster. However, while at Summit the other day (I live nearby), I was looking at the e-core coils. The aftermarket e-core coils are a great deal larger than the stock GM e-core coils. Can these be used in place of the stock GM coil, and if so, does anybody have any ideas on mounting the coil to an Air Gap intake? TIA
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Re: HEI module...
[Re: 70duster340]
#779146
08/31/10 10:42 PM
08/31/10 10:42 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 738
TN
'84 D150 Shorty
OP
Pickup Man
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OP
Pickup Man
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 738
TN
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Quote:
I really appreciate all the time you spent taking pics and drawing wiring diagrams. I am planning on doing this conversion once I get around to reinstalling the engine in my Duster.
However, while at Summit the other day (I live nearby), I was looking at the e-core coils. The aftermarket e-core coils are a great deal larger than the stock GM e-core coils. Can these be used in place of the stock GM coil, and if so, does anybody have any ideas on mounting the coil to an Air Gap intake?
TIA
Are you sure you weren't looking at the cap mount coils? those coils are VERY much larger, but not any more powerful, and are not designed to be mounted independently. There are a number of MSD e-core coils available if you are considering after-market options. You still use the GM coil bracket, or simply make you own. Just remember that different coil styles are going to need different coil-to-distributor wires.
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Re: HEI module...
[Re: 340SHORTY]
#779147
08/31/10 10:43 PM
08/31/10 10:43 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 738
TN
'84 D150 Shorty
OP
Pickup Man
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OP
Pickup Man
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 738
TN
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Quote:
very good info.. I want to this on my 87 RC. wanna do it again? 
I actually enjoyed this little project. PM me if you would like me to give ya a hand
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Re: HEI module...
[Re: 70duster340]
#779149
09/01/10 09:42 AM
09/01/10 09:42 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 738
TN
'84 D150 Shorty
OP
Pickup Man
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OP
Pickup Man
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 738
TN
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Quote:
Where did you get your hands on that thermal paste?
I had it laying around. I had confiscated it from a friend who installed an accell module in his chebby without using it ( several days later he acted shocked and confused when his module went on an unexpected strike)
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using the e-core coil is going to let me take full advantage of the HEI module. I will take pics as I progress
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