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Re: HEI module... [Re: RapidRobert] #779105
08/23/10 07:32 PM
08/23/10 07:32 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 738
TN
'84 D150 Shorty Offline OP
Pickup Man
'84 D150 Shorty  Offline OP
Pickup Man

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Posts: 738
TN
Well after all of the informative reading, I know how I will be goin about this conversion. I will be making a mount plate to attach underneath the dizzy, and using a e-core coil from a 96 chevy truck with simple bracket to mount it right where my canister coil is now on the intake. No more junk on the firewall, everything nice and neat on the manifold, out of sight using the e-core coil is going to let me take full advantage of the HEI module. I will take pics as I progress

Re: HEI module... [Re: '84 D150 Shorty] #779106
08/23/10 10:30 PM
08/23/10 10:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,443
7
70duster340 Offline
pro stock
70duster340  Offline
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Is it necessary to use the e-core coil? If so, where can it be found? I know nothing about this type of coil.

Re: HEI module... [Re: 70duster340] #779107
08/24/10 12:14 AM
08/24/10 12:14 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:

Is it necessary to use the e-core coil? If so, where can it be found? I know nothing about this type of coil.


X2


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: HEI module... [Re: RapidRobert] #779108
08/24/10 01:28 AM
08/24/10 01:28 AM
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Posts: 4,481
Mesa, AZ
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Pat_Whalen Offline
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Mesa, AZ
Not necessary at all to use an e-core coil.

The e-core coil has a couple of benefits over a standard oil filled canister style coil.

Due to the fact that the e-core is arranged in much more of a true transformer fashion than that of the canister, it is able to maintain relatively high voltage output while also increasing a higher current output. Consider this the "best of both worlds". The ability to produce a strong, high voltage spark in high cylinder pressure applications.

The lower resistance of the e-core also means less heat and a quicker charge, perfect for CD-type ignitions.

It also doesn't get hot (at all) like a standard canister-type coil, and (despite the argument that wages on), the e-core coil can be mounted in any position without the threat of leakage (In fact, the e-core is epoxy filled, so it hasn't got anything to leak).

Here is a quote from a Corvette tech page (eek!):

Quote:

According to industry experts, coils have always had to compromise voltage output against current output. More voltage increases the initial ionization of the spark plug gap, but lowers the amount of current or heat that follows across the plug gap. When a coil is designed to produce more current, the voltage output generally suffers, which taxes the ease of ionizing the gap. In order to accomplish a combination of high voltage and current, the latest coils incorporate a special "E-core" winding design. This is an efficient design that more closely resembles the windings in a true transformer. In this system, less loss occurs during the transfer of electricity due to the closed core of the coil.

Given this technology, an "E" style coil produces spark with both high voltage and current. Another benefit is the coils run extremely cool, even at high rpm. This is due to the efficiency of the design, as well as the large laminations (Laminations are the heat sink-style "fins" on the outside of the coil body).




Link to that page:

http://www.corvettefever.com/techarticles/ignition_coil_info/index.html

A link to Summit's offering of e-core coils:

http://www.summitracing.com/search/Depar...re/?Ns=Rank|Asc

An MSD Blaster SS E-core coil:



http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MSD-8207/

And a Mallory E-Core:



http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MAA-30441/?rtype=10

Long story short: If you have the opportunity to upgrade your ignition coil to an e-core.

Hope this helps

Re: HEI module... [Re: RapidRobert] #779109
08/24/10 01:36 AM
08/24/10 01:36 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 738
TN
'84 D150 Shorty Offline OP
Pickup Man
'84 D150 Shorty  Offline OP
Pickup Man

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 738
TN
Quote:

Quote:

Is it necessary to use the e-core coil? If so, where can it be found? I know nothing about this type of coil.


X2




Ok, ill explain it best I can... you don't HAVE to use the e-core, but you can make the most of the HEI by using it.

Your typical canister coil falls into two catagories. 1) .5 ohms primary resistance 2) 1 - 1.5 ohms primary resistance. Most performance aftermarket coils and early chysler coils are .5 ohm coils. The late model chrysler coils are in the 1.5 catagory. The ballast resistor turns the .5 ohms of resistance into 1.5 ohms resistance. The reason: at .5 ohms the canistor coil will overheat and cook itself to death.

The e-core coil: resistance is .5 ohms BUT due to its design, will not cook itself allowing it to operate with less resistance, and therefore with more powerful spark.

A canistor coil CAN be used with the HEI. If it is a coil used with the chrysler ECU or a .5 ohm aftermarket coil, you MUST retain the ballast resistor. If it is a late model coil, as used in chrylser "lean burn" systems, you don't need the ballast, cuz the coil is already 1.5 ohms. However doing it this limits the potential of the HEI upgrade. Using the e-core will use the full potential of the HEI module. The e-core desgn is used on chevys and fords. The e-core I will be after is on 1996-2000 chevy trucks and suvs, and possibly many others. Reason: uses a sealed connector, and has three wires: coil + coil - and tach. I will post a pic of some e-core coils here momentarily

Re: HEI module... [Re: '84 D150 Shorty] #779110
08/24/10 01:55 AM
08/24/10 01:55 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 738
TN
'84 D150 Shorty Offline OP
Pickup Man
'84 D150 Shorty  Offline OP
Pickup Man

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Posts: 738
TN
Here is a pic of the coil I am gonna be after. This example is an MSD coil but other than the sticker looks exactly like the OEM coils in '96-'00 chevy trucks and suv's


Re: HEI module... [Re: '84 D150 Shorty] #779111
08/24/10 01:50 PM
08/24/10 01:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,305
Lakewood, Colorado
herkamer Offline
pro stock
herkamer  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,305
Lakewood, Colorado
Here's how I did mine. Set up for Megasquirt to control the timing, so hopefully the emissions goons don't notice the extra 3 wires going into box. Doubt they will, they aren't terribly smart.

6156536-ign.JPG (1169 downloads)

Matt
69 Dart Swinger 340
83 W350, Megasquirted with 46RH
Old news: 72 Demon street/race mobile
Latest: 70 Duster backhalf car
and even more
Re: HEI module... [Re: mark7171] #779112
08/25/10 04:10 PM
08/25/10 04:10 PM
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Posts: 6,816
Alton, IL
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Dakota_Don Offline
master
Dakota_Don  Offline
master
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Posts: 6,816
Alton, IL
Quote:

Crisp, Clean, and no Caffiene.

If you do not want to spend the money for the excellent FBO system, this is a strong second choice. The way to make a start stand ignition stsyem too. Works super.

I wouldnt call the FBO sustem exellent.. more of a POS.waste of money. I got less then 3k miles before the box blew.. it now has the chrome box on it, and that was 10k miles ago..pluss my dist didnt work well and he also sent it to me with-out a vac-advance..


link page





Re: HEI module... [Re: Dakota_Don] #779113
08/25/10 09:29 PM
08/25/10 09:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,443
7
70duster340 Offline
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Does this installation need a heat sink to work?

Re: HEI module... [Re: '84 D150 Shorty] #779114
08/25/10 11:40 PM
08/25/10 11:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
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Lincoln Nebraska
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Is it necessary to use the e-core coil? If so, where can it be found? I know nothing about this type of coil.


X2


Ok, ill explain it best I can.


thank you!. On my 1st HEI conversion (BB) I ran the big yellow Accell super coil w no ballast & no probs. Maybe I got lucky as I understand it (that coil) should have a .8 ohm ballast. If I go back to that on my upcoming SB should I use a ballast? I'll ohm it to see what it has.


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: HEI module... [Re: RapidRobert] #779115
08/26/10 01:41 AM
08/26/10 01:41 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,261
ILL
mark7171 Offline
pro stock
mark7171  Offline
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Posts: 1,261
ILL
If running a old style coil a ballast is needed for ideal operations.

The accel 4 pin HEI control is just as good.

No "special" thermal paste needed. A dab of CPU stuff for computers is fine.

Here is a bottom pic



Wiring in the picture is all. That is IT. Connect a positive wire to the + side of the coil and done. 15-20 minutes tops. Invisible back under there.


Last edited by mark7171; 08/26/10 01:50 AM.
Re: HEI module... [Re: 70duster340] #779116
08/26/10 10:36 AM
08/26/10 10:36 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 738
TN
'84 D150 Shorty Offline OP
Pickup Man
'84 D150 Shorty  Offline OP
Pickup Man

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 738
TN
Quote:

Does this installation need a heat sink to work?




Its recommended but some have gotten away without it (but some haven't.....)

Re: HEI module... [Re: '84 D150 Shorty] #779117
08/27/10 01:37 AM
08/27/10 01:37 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 730
Nampa, ID
MadMatt Offline
super stock
MadMatt  Offline
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Nampa, ID
I'm currently running the MP version of the MSD 6AL and an MSD canister type Blaster Coil with a Mallory sourced Mopar style electronic distributor. Would the conversion to the HEI setup offer any gains or advantages over what I have now?


Some see the glass as half empty, some see the glass as half full. I just drink straight out of the bottle.
Re: HEI module... [Re: MadMatt] #779118
08/27/10 04:03 PM
08/27/10 04:03 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,249
Las Vegas
JeffC Offline
pro stock
JeffC  Offline
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Las Vegas
Quote:

I'm currently running the MP version of the MSD 6AL and an MSD canister type Blaster Coil with a Mallory sourced Mopar style electronic distributor. Would the conversion to the HEI setup offer any gains or advantages over what I have now?





No, that would be a step backward.

Re: HEI module... [Re: JeffC] #779119
08/28/10 03:51 PM
08/28/10 03:51 PM
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Posts: 1,443
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70duster340 Offline
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70duster340  Offline
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Before I consider this, can any of you advise if this is an upgrade for my current setup? I'm running a billet Mopar distributor with a chrome box and an Accel Super Coil.

TIA!!!

Re: HEI module... [Re: 70duster340] #779120
08/28/10 04:04 PM
08/28/10 04:04 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 738
TN
'84 D150 Shorty Offline OP
Pickup Man
'84 D150 Shorty  Offline OP
Pickup Man

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 738
TN
The HEI with an ecore coil would be an improvment

Re: HEI module... [Re: '84 D150 Shorty] #779121
08/28/10 04:39 PM
08/28/10 04:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,443
7
70duster340 Offline
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70duster340  Offline
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OK, thanks. Now, is there any type of mounting bracket to place the coil in the stock location? I'm running an Air Gap manifold.

Re: HEI module... [Re: 70duster340] #779122
08/28/10 05:43 PM
08/28/10 05:43 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,590
Piqua, Ohio
dodgeram440 Offline
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dodgeram440  Offline
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Piqua, Ohio
Not to detract from this conversion in any way, but there is another way to get the same results just by replacing the distributor.

I did this on my 86 D100 318 to eliminate the ESC computer. I got the distributor from Ebay for less than $60 and hook up is as easy as a hot wire going to the coil and the two wires from the dist hook up to the coil. It uses a gm style module (although not an exact gm copy, the terminals are on the side instead of on the ends) mounted under the little housing on the side. I used an MSD Blaster 3 coil that did not require a balast so I did not have to add one, or you could also use an e-coil which the sellers also offer. Doing this swap has been a huge improvement over the stock system. It has helped with the hesitation, though I still have some carb issues, the idle has smoothed out considerably, and the tach needle is now rock steady.

Although I went with this option with my small block, when I get the 440 swapped in (IF I ever get the 440 swapped in. Where's the OverHaulin' gang when you need them?!) I do plan on using a stock distributor (or maybe a billet replacement, eventually) and the gm HEI module conversion as outlined. I know this HEI distributor is available for the big blocks also, but I don't really want that big housing sticking out on the front of my engine. I would prefer something a little more stealthy.






Re: HEI module... [Re: dodgeram440] #779123
08/28/10 05:48 PM
08/28/10 05:48 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 862
Iowa State fan
kilroy Offline
super stock
kilroy  Offline
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Iowa State fan
Can someone explain the ohms need on a coil? there is a .25, .5, and 1.5. I would like to use one of the hot ecoils but I dont understand which ohm I should use. Im using electronic ignition w/ chrome box.


1973 Charger, former SE, former auto

I'm not trying to be difficult, it comes naturally....
Re: HEI module... [Re: kilroy] #779124
08/29/10 11:09 PM
08/29/10 11:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,443
7
70duster340 Offline
pro stock
70duster340  Offline
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Can anybody advise of any brackets that may be available for the e-core coil to be mounted in the stock location?

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