Re: Get out of it's own way - 340 RR
[Re: AverageJoe]
#771353
08/11/10 01:29 PM
08/11/10 01:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,719 Space Station #5
471Magnum
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master
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Posts: 3,719
Space Station #5
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Probably the best thing to do would be to install a 2500-2800 converter.
Give it a good performance tune-up. Recurve the distributor with a lighter spring.
I'm in the process of waking up a 72 340 RR, so I know where you're coming from.
-Jim
I can fix it... my old man is a television repairman. He's got the ultimate set of tools... I can fix it.
Currently Mopar-less
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Re: Get out of it's own way - 340 RR
[Re: justinp61]
#771361
08/12/10 06:57 PM
08/12/10 06:57 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
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Manitoba, Canada
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Gear and converter would be the best bang for your buck in getting performance up. Beyond that I'd be looking at doing headers, cam, intake and then just driving it. A low CR 340 in a heavy 73 RR isn't going to be a ground pounder. Probably your best bet would be to keep the car stock and just use it for tooling around town or cruising on the highway. Sure you can do gears, converter, cam, intake, headers but you're still not going to have that potent of a package. Build your Dart for performance instead.
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Re: Get out of it's own way - 340 RR
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#771362
08/12/10 07:20 PM
08/12/10 07:20 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,445 N.Wilkesboro,NC
DusterKrazy
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,445
N.Wilkesboro,NC
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The road runner isn't gonna run like the Dart. The road runner probably weighs 500 pounds more. Stall converter, headers and adjust the timing. It does have potential Just my opinion...but ditch the Edelbrock 750 and get a Holley 650.
Last edited by DusterKrazy; 08/12/10 07:22 PM.
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Re: Get out of it's own way - 340 RR
[Re: AverageJoe]
#771364
08/12/10 09:47 PM
08/12/10 09:47 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312 Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
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Quote:
Swap pistons ?
That's what I was gonna say. That's the only way to get the performance any where near a 70-71 340. I have had both and there no replacement for compression if you ask me.
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Re: Get out of it's own way - 340 RR
[Re: dulcich]
#771365
08/12/10 10:08 PM
08/12/10 10:08 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 571 Beaverton, OR, USA
Alikazam
super gas
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super gas
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 571
Beaverton, OR, USA
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Quote:
My 71 340 Satellite eats 440 B-body cars for lunch -dulcich
I kinda know the feeling... taken a few B-body Big Block cars out with the van even NA vs. with the nitrous. :P
I agree that a piston swap and thin head gasket would be the way to go to get the comp. up and make that thing a runner. the Comp XE268 cam is a good choice as well with the components you have. Free up the exhaust too with headers!
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Re: Get out of it's own way - 340 RR
[Re: Challenger 1]
#771369
08/13/10 12:01 AM
08/13/10 12:01 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
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Quote:
Arn't KB 243 pistons like 240 bucks? That's cheap for pistons if that's right.
I agree there's nothing better than having the proper compression for your application, however to change pistons the budget goes up quickly. Bore/hone, then of course you will want to take a look at the crank, new bearings, recondition rods, probably some block milling while you are there. Then you're not going to bolt some old heads back on so you're spending $ on going through them, new valve springs/seals at a minimum, etc. I didn't get the feeling the OP wanted to go overboard...
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Re: Get out of it's own way - 340 RR
[Re: dulcich]
#771370
08/13/10 09:28 AM
08/13/10 09:28 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
My 71 340 Satellite eats 440 B-body cars for lunch -dulcich
yeah but if a BB guy did as much engine work as you did he could spot you 2 lights and take you by a 1/2 car. Apples and Oranges
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Re: Get out of it's own way - 340 RR
[Re: dustergirl340]
#771372
08/13/10 09:53 AM
08/13/10 09:53 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Key word is "IF"...I don't care what your engine COULD do, I'm interested in what it does RIGHT NOW.
oh mine should run fine, but it's not a "stock" unit so I would sweat it too much.
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Re: Get out of it's own way - 340 RR
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#771373
08/13/10 10:10 AM
08/13/10 10:10 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312 Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
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Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
Arn't KB 243 pistons like 240 bucks? That's cheap for pistons if that's right.
I agree there's nothing better than having the proper compression for your application, however to change pistons the budget goes up quickly. Bore/hone, then of course you will want to take a look at the crank, new bearings, recondition rods, probably some block milling while you are there. Then you're not going to bolt some old heads back on so you're spending $ on going through them, new valve springs/seals at a minimum, etc. I didn't get the feeling the OP wanted to go overboard...
I went the cheap way, honed by hand my original bore 71K mile 71 340 block, reused the rods and did nothing to the block,rods or crank. Bought new rings and bearings and had the gaskets laying around. Like I said it runs great.
All the block work you speak of doesn't always need to be done.
I have rebuilt many motors this way and have never lost a motor other than a cracked cly wall that leaked water. It helps that I have all the tools to rebuild motors.
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Re: Get out of it's own way - 340 RR
[Re: Challenger 1]
#771375
08/13/10 12:20 PM
08/13/10 12:20 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,741 Holland MI Ottawa
2boltmain
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,741
Holland MI Ottawa
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Quote:
Quote:
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Arn't KB 243 pistons like 240 bucks? That's cheap for pistons if that's right.
I agree there's nothing better than having the proper compression for your application, however to change pistons the budget goes up quickly. Bore/hone, then of course you will want to take a look at the crank, new bearings, recondition rods, probably some block milling while you are there. Then you're not going to bolt some old heads back on so you're spending $ on going through them, new valve springs/seals at a minimum, etc. I didn't get the feeling the OP wanted to go overboard...
I went the cheap way, honed my original bore 71K mile 71 340 block, reused the rods and did nothing to the block,rods or crank. Bought new rings and bearings and had the gaskets laying around. Like I said it runs great.
All the block work you speak of doesn't always need to be done.
I have rebuilt many motors this way and have never lost a motor other than a cracked cly wall that leaked water. It helps that I have all the tools to rebuild motors.
Back in the 80s people did ring and bearing kits on a saturday and were cruising sat night! Dingle ball hone and reassembly. Some even left the engine in the car. Couldnt someone slide in new pistons into an existing and sound block to get the comp up? I knew alot of people who did farmer rebuilds on smallblock chevies and they ran pretty hard. The mopars ran even better. Obviously this is not the right way but many engines ran a good long time without all the machining and new parts.
Keep old mopars alive.
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Re: Get out of it's own way - 340 RR
[Re: Paul_Fancsali]
#771377
08/13/10 02:47 PM
08/13/10 02:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
I used to look for b engine Mopars back in the 70s to race with my 340 car. Its not the size that counts its what you can do with it The 340-360 is the little giant killer.
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Re: Get out of it's own way - 340 RR
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#771378
08/13/10 02:55 PM
08/13/10 02:55 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312 Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
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Quote:
Quote:
I used to look for b engine Mopars back in the 70s to race with my 340 car. Its not the size that counts its what you can do with it The 340-360 is the little giant killer.
I have to say that my 440 stomps my hi compression 340. That's why my wife always drives the 340 when we cruise both cars! I like to keep her in my mirror, although she don't agree. Here's what the gold car used to look like.
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Re: Get out of it's own way - 340 RR
[Re: RebelDart]
#771382
08/13/10 03:56 PM
08/13/10 03:56 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312 Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
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Quote:
Man - I got more than I expected ! Let me throw something else into the mix here. IF the engine is sound - what could I expect bolting on a turbo kit ? Considering a total performance rebuid would probably cost as much or more ? I'm serious - what would the car feel like ? It's in great stock condition , currently.
My Keep it stock and in good condition.
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Re: Get out of it's own way - 340 RR
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#771383
08/13/10 05:01 PM
08/13/10 05:01 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,873 Chicken coop
dustergirl340
Chicken Little
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Chicken Little
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,873
Chicken coop
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Quote:
Quote:
I used to look for b engine Mopars back in the 70s to race with my 340 car. Its not the size that counts its what you can do with it The 340-360 is the little giant killer.
So it's impossible for a 340 to beat a big block? Damn....I guess I need to trade some of my white timeslips in for the yellow ones.
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Re: Get out of it's own way - 340 RR
[Re: dustergirl340]
#771384
08/13/10 05:09 PM
08/13/10 05:09 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312 Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I used to look for b engine Mopars back in the 70s to race with my 340 car. Its not the size that counts its what you can do with it The 340-360 is the little giant killer.
So it's impossible for a 340 to beat a big block? Damn....I guess I need to trade some of my white timeslips in for the yellow ones.
I agree, a hot 340 in a A body can be very quick.
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Re: Get out of it's own way - 340 RR
[Re: Challenger 1]
#771385
08/13/10 05:20 PM
08/13/10 05:20 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 459 pana illinois
bigblock4x4
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 459
pana illinois
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Quote:
Quote:
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Arn't KB 243 pistons like 240 bucks? That's cheap for pistons if that's right.
I agree there's nothing better than having the proper compression for your application, however to change pistons the budget goes up quickly. Bore/hone, then of course you will want to take a look at the crank, new bearings, recondition rods, probably some block milling while you are there. Then you're not going to bolt some old heads back on so you're spending $ on going through them, new valve springs/seals at a minimum, etc. I didn't get the feeling the OP wanted to go overboard...
I went the cheap way, honed by hand my original bore 71K mile 71 340 block, reused the rods and did nothing to the block,rods or crank. Bought new rings and bearings and had the gaskets laying around. Like I said it runs great.
All the block work you speak of doesn't always need to be done.
I have rebuilt many motors this way and have never lost a motor other than a cracked cly wall that leaked water. It helps that I have all the tools to rebuild motors.
what is that tool?is it outrageously priced and where do you get one?looks like something me and my buddies could use
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Re: Get out of it's own way - 340 RR
[Re: bigblock4x4]
#771386
08/13/10 06:08 PM
08/13/10 06:08 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312 Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
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Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
what is that tool?is it outrageously priced and where do you get one?looks like something me and my buddies could use
It's a Sunnen cylinder hone, hand held. Same head that's on a stationary hone. It takes a heavy duty varible speed drill and a big guy like me to operate it. With some practice you can acheive very straight bores. I have a gravity feed honeing oil setup along with a bore gauge to use with it. Have used it a bunch on my blown hemi sleeves when we get a little too lean.
Goodson is one place to get one along with the honing oil and bore gauge.
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Re: Get out of it's own way - 340 RR
[Re: Challenger 1]
#771387
08/13/10 07:18 PM
08/13/10 07:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,912 APACHE JUNCTION AZ
Joesixpack
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 11,912
APACHE JUNCTION AZ
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lol i bet is you scaled those two cars the difference would be closer to 800lbs or more, 73-74 B-bodies were heavy...70 a bodies were light weight compared to them....now when the 73 340s came out you got the #587 1.88 heads....8.5 to 1 compression,low lift cam etc...the combo of a low compression,low lift cam,small intake valves, restrictive exhaust manifolds(logs),and big heavy car...slowed them down quite a lot...I would consider an engine change, save the # 340/trans, drop in a 360!, you can find rebuildable core motors pretty cheap, drop in some flat top pistons,bigger cam,more torque,you can add 2.02 valves to the 360 heads which after 71 340 and 360 used the same basic heads anyway(915s&587#). a looser converter ie 2400-2800, some more gear,and there ya go.just depends on your budget and what you want to do with the car. I f you decide to build the 340, first thing you want to do is rebuild the con rods and replace the rod bolts/nuts anyway, get some new pistons, rebalance everything, cut the heads for 2.02 valves,you can get some HP by some bowl work below the seats,your trying to increase airflow from the top thru the exhaust.bigger ports,bigger valves,bigger cam,more cyl pressure,more torque to help move along the B-body...headers, loose convertor,more gear,a good combo is important when you go the small block/b-body route.
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Re: Get out of it's own way - 340 RR
[Re: Paul_Fancsali]
#771389
08/13/10 08:16 PM
08/13/10 08:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Stock 340 and stock 440 and everything being equal except the weight and the 340 can and will often come out on top.Look at gross HP of both and they were seperated by 40 horsepower in 1973. the 440 had 280 and the 340 240.
NOT A CHANCE a 340 B-body or E-body will come on top of a 440 B or E. Even in 73. 40 is huge and the 440 has waaaaaaaaaaay more torque. You 340 guys are fooling yourself.
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Re: Get out of it's own way - 340 RR
[Re: dustergirl340]
#771390
08/13/10 08:19 PM
08/13/10 08:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I used to look for b engine Mopars back in the 70s to race with my 340 car. Its not the size that counts its what you can do with it The 340-360 is the little giant killer.
So it's impossible for a 340 to beat a big block? Damn....I guess I need to trade some of my white timeslips in for the yellow ones.
I don't think abody is saying that at all. But a stock 340 vs a stock 440 in the same car the 440 wins. A mild 340 vs a mild 440 in the SAME car the 440 wins. Just like if you put a 440 in an a-body and a 340 in the other, they have they same build a little cam, compression, gear, intake carb, the 440 WINS. Jeesh.
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Re: Get out of it's own way - 340 RR
[Re: Paul_Fancsali]
#771395
08/14/10 01:37 AM
08/14/10 01:37 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
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Quote:
The point I'm making is most big blocks of that era 73-75 suffered more power loss then the equvalent small block. a 340 was rated 275 hp a 440 same year was 375 |In 1973 they were 340 net 240 and 280 net 440. That is big diff.
Yes, but you conveniently omit the fact that in 73 the 440 had almost 100 more ft-lbs of torq and at a lower rpm. In two identical 73 RR's with the same converter, trans and gears, the 440 car will win. The extra torq at a lower rpm will perform better with the stock torq converter and give the oomph you need to get that heavy car moving.
If you're comparing a hi-cr era lightweight 340 a-body to a smogger low comp 73 440 b-body you are NOT comparing apples to apples.
To the OP, a turbo or supercharger setup would make your 340 feel like a totally different animal. If you want to do something fun on a budget, you can pickup a used centrifugal supercharger like a paxton sn2000, sn93 or sn89. They are perfectly sized for a small block and don't go for that much $$. Pop in that 268 cam, do a set of headers, intake, carb and that supercharger and you could be in the 350-400hp zone easy while giving you the bottom end torq you need.
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Re: Get out of it's own way - 340 RR
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#771396
08/14/10 01:45 AM
08/14/10 01:45 AM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 12,812 Tulsa, Oklahoma
Wagonmaster
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This really is not meant to be too much, but one of the more fun cars I had was a bone stock '73 GTX. Looked a bit rough, but was absolutely a virgin. Put a battery in, repaired the radiator, a quick tune and I was VERY impressed. '73 GTX B-body w/440 stock. The reason my wife wouldn't ride with me in a toy car again. Long story, but very decent car. Your 340 car could eat up lots of coin making it close to a 440 compatible car. Save the aggrivation, stuff a 440 in it, save the 340 and save lots of $$, too! Just my
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Re: Get out of it's own way - 340 RR
[Re: Wagonmaster]
#771397
08/14/10 12:26 PM
08/14/10 12:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,406 Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
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Kalispell Mt.
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A pair of magnum heads could wake it up quite a bit in the air flow department and compression and the 1.6 ratio rockers will make the cam work like it is slightly bigger. Make sure you use the thin head gaskets and you WILL notice a differance. You can get stock re-built heads from flea-bay for a couple hundred bucks, have them re-drilled at a local machine shop for under $100 (If you were close by I only charge $50), buy a gasket set, conversion pushrods from mancini and be done, then you can keep you stock short block in the car and it will make more power than a 68 340.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: Get out of it's own way - 340 RR
[Re: RebelDart]
#771400
04/11/11 04:37 PM
04/11/11 04:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,122 Grand Haven, MI
patrick
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Grand Haven, MI
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Quote:
What years for the heads would be recommended - finally on the road and as expected --- not impressive .............. yet.
junkyarding, '92-01 318's or 92-02 360's....
while yarding, get the retainers off of some 2.2L/2.5L mopar 4 bangers, and buy some hughes #1110 valve springs.
or if you don't want to go through the hassle, buy these new enginequest 318B heads with LA bolt pattern, #1110 springs and new OEM spec valves. should flow ~ 10% better than OEM magnum heads. I'd also pick up a comp XE256 cam while you're at it.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD 1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!*** 2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T 2017 Grand Cherokee Overland 2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: Get out of it's own way - 340 RR
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#771402
04/11/11 05:09 PM
04/11/11 05:09 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134 Kelowna, B.C. Canada
DPelletier
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I Live Here
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Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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Quote:
I don't think abody is saying that at all. But a stock 340 vs a stock 440 in the same car the 440 wins. A mild 340 vs a mild 440 in the SAME car the 440 wins. Just like if you put a 440 in an a-body and a 340 in the other, they have they same build a little cam, compression, gear, intake carb, the 440 WINS. Jeesh.
Of course; any one suggesting otherwise is You can't have a 100 cubic inch disadvantage on similarly built motors and not have a significant performance difference.
My cousin's 340 Duster was one of the fastest cars I've ever driven but at 14.5:1, solid lifters, etc, etc, it was FAR from stock!
Dave
Last edited by DPelletier; 04/11/11 05:11 PM.
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