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External oiling plumbing question #770294
08/09/10 11:14 PM
08/09/10 11:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,036
Mooresburg, Tn
'
'72CudaRacer Offline OP
top fuel
'72CudaRacer  Offline OP
top fuel
'

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,036
Mooresburg, Tn
I'm trying to plumb my Milodon pan and external oil lines and I can not put a "upper loop" in it. With this pan (rear sump w/ steering link pass through hole) and Hooker Super Comp headers in a stock frame E body, with a mostly stock K member, the only way to run the #12 line from pan to rear of pump is down, under hole in pan to a 45* inlet into pump. If I try to go up I run into the headers. The filter is a remote unit, mounted above the pump, with lines running down to the pump.
Am I going to have a problem with this holding its prime?
Thanks, Brian

Re: External oiling plumbing question [Re: '72CudaRacer] #770295
08/10/10 01:01 AM
08/10/10 01:01 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,647
aotearoa
rebel Offline
master
rebel  Offline
master

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,647
aotearoa
yes

Re: External oiling plumbing question [Re: rebel] #770296
08/10/10 01:13 AM
08/10/10 01:13 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,646
Plymouth Meeting, PA
bigtimeauto Offline
Trophy Winner
bigtimeauto  Offline
Trophy Winner

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,646
Plymouth Meeting, PA
Here is how i ran mine if it helps you:



BB, TT5,Procharged 3300lb Street Car 4.79/154
Re: External oiling plumbing question [Re: bigtimeauto] #770297
08/10/10 01:21 AM
08/10/10 01:21 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer Offline
master
Bob_Coomer  Offline
master

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
nope...
I didnt have the room in the dragster, the line coming to the front actually come from under the oil pump and no room to loop them, and no problems whats so ever...funny thing is the Hemi in the Belvedere has less room also...
It has a Accumulator...absolutely without question the best money and upgrade I have ever spent..
Fred sent me a link to a guy On ebay to buy those electric valves for $30....you know the same ones Moroso, or Canton wants to sell you for over $200..and it works like a charm


[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color]
[color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
Re: External oiling plumbing question [Re: Bob_Coomer] #770298
08/10/10 08:26 AM
08/10/10 08:26 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,319
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
I Live Here
an8sec70cuda  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,319
Marion, South Carolina [><]
w/ Bob. Neither of my motors have an upward loop, lines head straight down once it leaves the pump. Never had any priming issues even after it's sat for a while. A lot of people do have trouble with it, but I have not. No check valves or anything.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: External oiling plumbing question [Re: an8sec70cuda] #770299
08/10/10 08:35 AM
08/10/10 08:35 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline
master
B G Racing  Offline
master

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
Very few if any of our single or daul line systems have an upper loop.No problems ever.

Re: External oiling plumbing question [Re: B G Racing] #770300
08/10/10 02:35 PM
08/10/10 02:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,805
ky hills
thehemikid Offline
top fuel
thehemikid  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,805
ky hills
...I ran the Charlie's dragster pan like bigtimeauto, with a single line, 45* fitting @ the pump cover, no loop (all up hill). Had no problems in 6 yrs on the street. Just didn't like the ~2sec delay on the needle. Have you guy's loops (prime's) helped much in that "delay". I'm doing a crazy loop with a stock B-body K-member, can't show pic's yet (lost my screen on my old computer @ haven't got pic's transfered yet).

Re: External oiling plumbing question [Re: Bob_Coomer] #770301
08/10/10 10:15 PM
08/10/10 10:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,889
Benton, IL.
D
DaveRS23 Offline
Special needs idiot
DaveRS23  Offline
Special needs idiot
D

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,889
Benton, IL.
Quote:


Fred sent me a link to a guy On ebay to buy those electric valves for $30....you know the same ones Moroso, or Canton wants to sell you for over $200..and it works like a charm




Can you share that info? I'm interested.


Master, again and still
Re: External oiling plumbing question [Re: B G Racing] #770302
08/10/10 10:31 PM
08/10/10 10:31 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
C
CHAPPER Offline
master
CHAPPER  Offline
master
C

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
No problems here,


If you like drag racing, support your local track.
Re: External oiling plumbing question [Re: DaveRS23] #770303
08/10/10 11:15 PM
08/10/10 11:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer Offline
master
Bob_Coomer  Offline
master

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
No Problem Dave, I will tell you what I know.. I purchased this valve and it arrived in a week or so. I have quite a bit of experience repairing various valves from plant work, so i took it apart.
Its a Diaphragm valve. These valves are usually pretty trouble free, big advantage is they are used in harsh environments etc. They are pretty standard in corrosive, abrasive, and very viscus type fluids which might create major problems with other valve like a gate, or a globe valve. Thing is they are NOT terribly great at keeping from product backing up from residual energy or pressure. They are more or less a check valve.
I verified this cause I could actually blow back through the valve one way right out of the box. The other way was sealed well.
This got me to thinking Although this valve probably will keep the oil pressurized in the accumulator, simply turning the valve off wont keep if from filling. I really couldnt see any cons to this, but maybe I might run into a sitaution where I want to keep oil out of it for some reason.
I went ahead and hooked it up, and installed the accumulator.
I finally got around to priming the Hemi last week after some issue's were taken care of (no oil to one side of the engine) but thats another story.
So I prime up the engine right off I notice that the accumulator is reading 65 lbs (shipped with 40 lbs) and figured it was already full.. It was too.
So the valve will permit the accumulator to be filled regardless if the valve is energized, closed or open.
I still cant think of a reason that this would be a bad thing.
-I mean if you forget to turn on the valve before you turn the engine off.
-After the run you can go ahead and shut the valve off after the pass and be 100% sure its full by the time you get back to the pits.
- to fill the accumulator up in the pits with a standard type valve you would need to get the engine RPM a good bit, this will let the engine oil pressure up a good bit higher past the set pressure on te other side of the piston.
If there is 40 psi, and your engine idle at 40 psi, the accumulator will not fill in other words. Holding the gas down for just a few seconds and the oil pressure does rise to 60+ psi, it will still take a few moments to fill the accumulator due to the way the valve is made. So I can see how the a check valve, and turning it off just after the pass once you reach the return road would insure there it enough time, and long enough higher maintained oil pressure for a complete fill, without trying to rev the engine up a few seconds, and snapping the valve shut just to catch 1/3 of what the accumulator will hold..
I plan on testing the system in a few days. I plan on timing how long it takes from the moment I hit the button for it to register on the oil pressure gauge. I also plan to time how long it will sustain oil pressure with the engine off. If anyone's interested I will post up the results. I also have a ball valve I might be able to test against. Might be interesting to see the diff in the two.
I also plan to measure how long it takes to fill, this might come in handy. Which IMO will be a measurable diff just cause the design of the valves..

here is the valves on Ebay for $34
http://cgi.ebay.com/1-2-Electric-Solenoi...DefaultDomain_0

Moroso valve for $160
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MOR-23908/


[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color]
[color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
Re: External oiling plumbing question [Re: Bob_Coomer] #770304
08/10/10 11:36 PM
08/10/10 11:36 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
rowin4 Offline
master
rowin4  Offline
master

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
I have the same valve, from the same e-bay seller. No problem with the valve. I have mine hooked up to the ignition switch so when I turn it on oil starts to flow to pre-lube, no dry starts. Bob what's with the 40 lbs. I think the instructions say about 12-15lbs., can't remember right now. I know it will hold 65lbs. for at least 2 months. As you said,a accumilator is the only way to go. Saved my engine last year when the pressure relief valve suck and lost pressure.



it's ok to butt heads, just don't do it with a butthead
Re: External oiling plumbing question [Re: rowin4] #770305
08/10/10 11:51 PM
08/10/10 11:51 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer Offline
master
Bob_Coomer  Offline
master

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Thats what the accumulator had OOTB??
I dont know, It actually had 45 psi, I bleed 5-10 lbs off. I planned on lowering it down to maybe 20-25 lbs, but IMO the higher the pressure the faster the canister will empty. That pressure is actually whats empty'n the accumulator.
I figured that even the 40 psi was just for test purposes from Cantons QC to check for leaks.....Just using it as a example.. But my setup still has almost that..Just havent had time to let some out...
I actually lost the notes that come with it...what doe Canton recommend anyways?
But really the pressure shouldnt hurt it, I mean it see way more than that in running conditions??


[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color]
[color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
Re: External oiling plumbing question [Re: Bob_Coomer] #770306
08/11/10 01:06 AM
08/11/10 01:06 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,828
Ontario, Canada
S
Stanton Offline
Don't question me!
Stanton  Offline
Don't question me!
S

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,828
Ontario, Canada
Ok, so something goes wrong and the engine loses pressure ... the accumulator senses this and blows its load. Then what ??? Is there some indicator that tells you to shut the engine down other than just NO oil pressure?

Re: External oiling plumbing question [Re: Bob_Coomer] #770307
08/11/10 12:06 PM
08/11/10 12:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,889
Benton, IL.
D
DaveRS23 Offline
Special needs idiot
DaveRS23  Offline
Special needs idiot
D

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,889
Benton, IL.
WOW! Bob, I was just hoping for a hot link, but got some great tech along with. Thanks for sharing your hard work. Please keep us posted on the on-going tests. I'm ordering mine now. Thanks, again.


Master, again and still
Re: External oiling plumbing question [Re: DaveRS23] #770308
08/16/10 10:10 AM
08/16/10 10:10 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 205
Chicago,Illinois
N
nosboy Offline
enthusiast
nosboy  Offline
enthusiast
N

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 205
Chicago,Illinois
good info !! I've been having trouble at the "stripe" with loosing oil pressure and having a REALLY HARD TIME geting it to " re prime".. I have to go as far as pulling the distributor and spinning the oil pump with a drill.. The pan and pump went back to Milodon for inspection.. SOMETHING IS WRONG BIGTIME with my setup !!!







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