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interesting roller cam info #754582
07/21/10 06:34 PM
07/21/10 06:34 PM
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'84 D150 Shorty Offline OP
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Made an interesting discovery on my 86 LA 318 out of a diplomat (which is now in my truck) today. All the research I had done on roller cams seemed to indicate that roller cams did not go into factory 318s until 88, and of course Magnum engines are roller cam motors. Even Allpar.com stated this. Guess what? I have one that tosses that theory! In 1986 dodge diplomats with engine vin code 4 or P had roller cams! This was the heavy duty 318 (4) and the 2bbl 318 (P). The irony? The vin code S (4bbl 318) did not! It was flat tappet! So when you go junk yard diving don't overlook those diplomats! Now, I do not know how far this oddity goes. It may be only that year and model, or it could be across the board. Anybody else able to confirm or deny this? Oh and I have seen the inside of this motor, it was a FACTORY roller

Re: interesting roller cam info [Re: '84 D150 Shorty] #754583
07/21/10 07:28 PM
07/21/10 07:28 PM
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Iowa
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I would like to know to because I can buy a 1987 (not 86 I know) 318 code P with 86000 miles on it for $250.

Re: interesting roller cam info [Re: '84 D150 Shorty] #754584
07/21/10 08:07 PM
07/21/10 08:07 PM
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Don't know where all you saw this info at, but as you have found out, it's wrong. Mid 85 2bbl M bodies (and newer) had roller cams.


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: interesting roller cam info [Re: '84 D150 Shorty] #754585
07/21/10 10:50 PM
07/21/10 10:50 PM
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Bowie, MD
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Quote:

Made an interesting discovery on my 86 LA 318 out of a diplomat (which is now in my truck) today. All the research I had done on roller cams seemed to indicate that roller cams did not go into factory 318s until 88, and of course Magnum engines are roller cam motors. Even Allpar.com stated this. Guess what? I have one that tosses that theory! In 1986 dodge diplomats with engine vin code 4 or P had roller cams! This was the heavy duty 318 (4) and the 2bbl 318 (P). The irony? The vin code S (4bbl 318) did not! It was flat tappet! So when you go junk yard diving don't overlook those diplomats! Now, I do not know how far this oddity goes. It may be only that year and model, or it could be across the board. Anybody else able to confirm or deny this? Oh and I have seen the inside of this motor, it was a FACTORY roller




Civilian M-body cars went roller in mid-1985, so all 1986 civilian model Diplomats had roller cams. M-body 4BBL cop cars (Diplomats and Gran Furys) had roller cam blocks after the civilian switch, but continued to use flat tappet cams through the end of the run in 1989. LA 360s got roller cams in 1989, so maybe that's the cause of the confusion.

Re: interesting roller cam info [Re: Reggie] #754586
07/22/10 11:52 AM
07/22/10 11:52 AM
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85 first yr for 318 roller cam and was a carb with long nose roller cams

my 85 truck 2-v 318 had a roller block,flat cam,#302 heads

my 88 4-v 360 headed 318 cop engine was a roller block,flat cam

they went to short nose roller cams with the tbi 318..no mech fuel pump

360 went roller cam with tbi,short nose roller cam in 89

IIRC the early roller lifters used a solid PR and non oil thru roller lifters

my 1990 318 tbi had oil thru lifters and hollow PR oiling the rockers AND it oiled the old LA style thru the block/heads to the rockers

when I went roller in the 88 cop engine,it now oils both ways to the rockers

at first I thought it might be to much oil up top..but seems to be fine and no issues a few yrs later and I have run it at 4800 rpms for 165 miles none stop with out any problems

I suggest using the newer roller lifters that are oil thru with hollow PR on a pre-mag combo

its set up to swap on mag heads with less work/parts to oil the mag heads thru the PR


Last edited by scratchnfotraction; 07/22/10 11:54 AM.
Re: interesting roller cam info [Re: scratchnfotraction] #754587
07/22/10 12:14 PM
07/22/10 12:14 PM
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Grand Haven, MI
patrick Offline
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pass car 2bbls went roller cam in '85.

I'm pretty sure any 318 built from then on will be a roller block.

4bbl 318's were all flat tappet.

318 trucks stayed flat tappet until the switch to TBI in 1988.

and scratchin' is right. early lifters have no PR oiling provisions. I had to swap magnum roller lifters into my '86 when I switched to magnum heads.

the LA cam cores have very deep hardening in them and can be reground to fairly aggresive cams, as well.


1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
Re: interesting roller cam info [Re: patrick] #754588
07/22/10 02:38 PM
07/22/10 02:38 PM
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'84 D150 Shorty Offline OP
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Can I use magnum roller lifters and pushrods in my LA without any mods? With stock LA heads? What about the magnum cams?

Re: interesting roller cam info [Re: '84 D150 Shorty] #754589
07/22/10 04:35 PM
07/22/10 04:35 PM
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Grand Haven, MI
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Quote:

Can I use magnum roller lifters and pushrods in my LA without any mods? With stock LA heads? What about the magnum cams?




if it's a roller block, lifters yes, pushrods no, they're different length than LA--unless you switch to mag heads/rockers also. in fact, the mag lifters supersceded the original lifters as replacement parts (go on rockauto, a magnum and '86 5th ave spec the same parts). magnum cams, maybe. OEM ones, probably not, as they don't have (or at least the one I had in my hands) the holes in the #2 & #4 journals for oiling. you could have the holes drilled, or maybe even have a groove cut in those journals (would provide continuous vs. metered oil) to get oil to the heads. most aftermarket magnum cam's I've seen have the oil holes. any aftermarket roller cam will work with OEM lifters...


1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
Re: interesting roller cam info [Re: patrick] #754590
07/22/10 10:29 PM
07/22/10 10:29 PM
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No oil holes for topside oiling with the factory Magnum cams, so they won't work with LA engines. LA heads require oiling through the block passages.

Re: interesting roller cam info [Re: patrick] #754591
07/23/10 11:05 AM
07/23/10 11:05 AM
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'84 D150 Shorty Offline OP
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Anybody know the actual dimensions of the LA pushrod? I curious if there is a pushrod out there with LA dimensions but with oil through passage.....maybe a stock piece? I know one could probably find expensive custom pieces from comp cams or such but I like to stay cheap and stock usually =cheap lol.

Re: interesting roller cam info [Re: '84 D150 Shorty] #754592
07/23/10 11:10 AM
07/23/10 11:10 AM
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I got new ones for an 90 318 pre-mag LA from advanced auto

they are the hollow ones and cost the same a stock solid ones for 83-84 LA318

one thing to look for on the heads are the larger push rod holes with the roller cams

early heads will need the hole clearanced and then will work as a roller head

I think I have a set of the solid pre-mag roller PR,I will measure them today,they will be the same as the hollow rods

the pre roller LA rods are 7.5 IIRC

Re: interesting roller cam info [Re: scratchnfotraction] #754593
07/23/10 01:24 PM
07/23/10 01:24 PM
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'84 D150 Shorty Offline OP
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Quote:

I got new ones for an 90 318 pre-mag LA from advanced auto

they are the hollow ones and cost the same a stock solid ones for 83-84 LA318

one thing to look for on the heads are the larger push rod holes with the roller cams

early heads will need the hole clearanced and then will work as a roller head

I think I have a set of the solid pre-mag roller PR,I will measure them today,they will be the same as the hollow rods

the pre roller LA rods are 7.5 IIRC




Good info! My motor is already a roller so '90 pushrods and Magnum rollers would perfect for me. I plan on upgrading my cam and this would be a fantastic oiling upgrade for my motor while I'm doing it. Heck, I'll go to pullapart and snag me some magnum rollers for cheap. (Like I said, I'm a cheapo) I priced a cam from comp and its over 300 bucks. then I priced a cam and lifter set....and its over 800 dollars! I was like [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean]! 500 for lifters??? Insane! So its salvage for me!

Re: interesting roller cam info [Re: Reggie] #754594
07/23/10 06:06 PM
07/23/10 06:06 PM
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anyone know the various lifts and durations on the roller cams?

I was wondering if any of them had less intake duration that the stock Magnum 5.9V8 cam did.

Int Dur 249
Ex Dur 269
Overlap 41
Intake Lift 0.410
Exh Lift 0.417
CenterLine 109
Installed C'L 117
Int Opens BTC 7
Int Closes ABC 62
Ex Opens BBC 56
Ex Closes ATC 33

Re: interesting roller cam info [Re: 360view] #754595
07/23/10 07:12 PM
07/23/10 07:12 PM
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'84 D150 Shorty Offline OP
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All this talk of magnum stuff has me curious....

What would be the benefit of using mag heads vs la heads?
Would LA headers still fit?
I know you have a to use mag intake...
Using mag heads, can you use all mag valve train (pushrods, lifters etc) in LA roller block without modification?


Last edited by '84 D150 Shorty; 07/23/10 08:14 PM.
Re: interesting roller cam info [Re: '84 D150 Shorty] #754596
07/24/10 07:42 AM
07/24/10 07:42 AM
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yes,mag roller lifters,dog bones,spider,PRs,mag heads

yes LA headers fit the mag heads

the benefit would be higher CR and a better exhast port with more flow

any of the after market retro roller cams will work,just need to use the long nose cams for the LA t-cover and fuel pumps

if you run a mag t-cover/serp belt you need the mag t-chain and t-cover

if your 86 is already roller then mag push rods and heads is all you will need to swap them on IIRC

Re: interesting roller cam info [Re: '84 D150 Shorty] #754597
07/24/10 12:16 PM
07/24/10 12:16 PM
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Quote:

Anybody know the actual dimensions of the LA pushrod? I curious if there is a pushrod out there with LA dimensions but with oil through passage.....maybe a stock piece? I know one could probably find expensive custom pieces from comp cams or such but I like to stay cheap and stock usually =cheap lol.




My 1987 FSM lists the LA roller pushrods at 6.754" to 6.774". I tore down a 1991 roller 360 that had oil through pushrods. I'll check my parts stash to see if I still have them.

Re: interesting roller cam info [Re: scratchnfotraction] #754598
07/25/10 10:35 AM
07/25/10 10:35 AM
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Grand Haven, MI
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Quote:

yes,mag roller lifters,dog bones,spider,PRs,mag heads

yes LA headers fit the mag heads

the benefit would be higher CR and a better exhast port with more flow

any of the after market retro roller cams will work,just need to use the long nose cams for the LA t-cover and fuel pumps

if you run a mag t-cover/serp belt you need the mag t-chain and t-cover

if your 86 is already roller then mag push rods and heads is all you will need to swap them on IIRC




'86 you'll need mag lifters. my '86 didn't have pushrod oil provisions in the lifters.

spiders and dogbones are identical

mag heads have the advantage of outflowing 2.02 valve LA 340 heads OOTB, but with smaller ports, and with 63cc chambers, which yields an even 9:1on my stock shortblock '86 318 with .028" head gaskets.

you can get your roller cam reground for about $150 from bullet cams


1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
383man [Re: patrick] #754599
07/25/10 01:14 PM
07/25/10 01:14 PM
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Here's an interesting one. Back about 18 years or so ago one of the techs at my Dealer did a eng rebuild in a 318 truck. When he was done it had a roaring sort of valvetrain noise so he put STP in it and let it go as he could find nothing wrong. Truck came back a week later and had eaten the cam lobes up bad ! Anyway parts gave him another cam and after he had it together it made the same roaring noise. When I looked at it with him I noticed none of the lifters were rotating ??? So we checked everything and had parts recheck the cam part# and they said they pulled the same cam as the original RO (repair order) as they took the part# off a copy of the RO when he rebuilt the eng. Ha a little lite went off in our heads and we had them look the cam up by application and found out we had the car cam which is a ROLLER cam and the truck still used a flat tappet cam that year. I dont remember the exact year we were working with but we had flat tappets on a ROLLER cam and it dont work !! Once we figured that out and put the right cam in all was good to go. Ron

Re: 383man [Re: 383man] #754600
07/25/10 02:15 PM
07/25/10 02:15 PM
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