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TIMING CHAIN CHANGE FOR A FIRST TIMER #73280
06/13/08 05:52 PM
06/13/08 05:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,630
S.E.Ohio
Magnumguy Offline OP
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Magnumguy  Offline OP
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S.E.Ohio
I'm considering doing a t-chain on one of my 78 Magnum, as the water pump needs changed.

I"m to the point of having all pump related items removed, now, from this point, what's involved, and while I'm in there, I have some keyways to alter the cam timing, as I've heard late 70's small blocks had the timing retarded, and much is gained by advancing it a couple degrees.

So how do I know which keyways to use? I'll post a picture of the package so maybe someone can tell me which one to use?


"Multiple Magnum owner since 1978!!"


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Re: TIMING CHAIN CHANGE FOR A FIRST TIMER [Re: Magnumguy] #73281
06/13/08 06:45 PM
06/13/08 06:45 PM
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places
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79powerwagon Offline
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There's really nothing to, the installation anyway. Pop off the cover, remove the bolts, pop off your valve covers, remove the lifters, and slide the sucker out CAREFULLY, as to not nick the bearings. Installation is the reverse.

Now, it's probably in your best interest to dial the cam in (thus the possible need for off-set keys), and the Summit kit is just fine for it. Just follow the directions provided.

If you can change the water pump, you can change your cam!

BTW, when I built the 360 in my truck, I installed the cam straight up, and after checking, I didn't need the off set keys at all. This was with a Summit cam and timing gear kit. Still best to check it anyway!

And that engine PULLED hard!!!

Re: TIMING CHAIN CHANGE FOR A FIRST TIMER [Re: 79powerwagon] #73282
06/13/08 06:58 PM
06/13/08 06:58 PM
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Pizza Bucket
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snuggles Offline
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I think mopar has a nice tensioner available that you could add if you wanted.

Re: TIMING CHAIN CHANGE FOR A FIRST TIMER [Re: 79powerwagon] #73283
06/13/08 07:01 PM
06/13/08 07:01 PM
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las vegas
70AARcuda Offline
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the proper way is to degree the cam in with the new timing chain..

but being an oem cam do would you really know the cam timing and the centerline needed...

i would buy a good double roller timing chain...and just replace the chain and sprockets.

you would not have to remove the keyway to change the timing chain...

be aware there are two bolts that go up from the front of the oil pan into the timing chain cover...also replace the seal in the timing chain cover..and front seal on the pan...


Tony

70 AARCuda Vitamin C
71 Dart Swinger 360 10.318 @ 128.22(10-04-14 Bakersfield)
71 Demon 360 10.666 @122.41 (01-29-17 @ Las Vegas)
71 Duster 408 (10.29 @ 127.86 3/16/19 Las Vegas)
Re: TIMING CHAIN CHANGE FOR A FIRST TIMER [Re: Magnumguy] #73284
06/13/08 07:12 PM
06/13/08 07:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,630
S.E.Ohio
Magnumguy Offline OP
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I'm changing the chain, not the cam.

Does Autozone sell good double-roller?

Here's my package of keyways just for grins



"Multiple Magnum owner since 1978!!"


https://www.facebook.com/groups/146952895354657/
Re: TIMING CHAIN CHANGE FOR A FIRST TIMER [Re: Magnumguy] #73285
06/13/08 07:49 PM
06/13/08 07:49 PM
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las vegas
70AARcuda Offline
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changing the keyway will either advance or retard the cam....

BUT not knowing if it is already advance or retard you can not just stick a new keyway in there and call it good....

you will need to degree the camshaft in order to do it properly....

once again...read my first post...unless you know the specifics of the camshaft...you are taking a crap shoot....on advancing the cam....

you could end up with 8 bent intake valves...


Tony

70 AARCuda Vitamin C
71 Dart Swinger 360 10.318 @ 128.22(10-04-14 Bakersfield)
71 Demon 360 10.666 @122.41 (01-29-17 @ Las Vegas)
71 Duster 408 (10.29 @ 127.86 3/16/19 Las Vegas)
Re: TIMING CHAIN CHANGE FOR A FIRST TIMER [Re: Magnumguy] #73286
06/13/08 07:56 PM
06/13/08 07:56 PM
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Posts: 3,075
Eastern Ohio
mopowergtx Offline
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Advanced Auto has a double roller chain for around $25 thats made in the USA. I used it and checked my new cam install centerline and the chain was spot on. Now if the factory cam is ground at the proper centerline is anybodys guess unless you check it. I had to exchange my Lunati vodoo out because the first one I got was 6 degrees out on the cam which would make you need a 3 degree offset at the crank. I didnt want to spend the money on a key set so I traded it for another one and that one was almost spot at 106.5 degrees. If your just a little bit shakey on just changing the timing gear set checking the centerline might be a little intimidating for you possibly. Might want to grab a local friend thats done it before to lend a hand the first time around. Good luck.

Re: TIMING CHAIN CHANGE FOR A FIRST TIMER [Re: mopowergtx] #73287
06/13/08 08:52 PM
06/13/08 08:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,050
Niles , Ohio
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therocks Offline
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
therocks  Offline
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
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Just get a good chain and line up the dots.No need to get fancy crank at 12 o clock and cam at 6.Then rotate twice and recheck.Button it up and your done.Rocky


Chrysler Firepower
Re: TIMING CHAIN CHANGE FOR A FIRST TIMER [Re: therocks] #73288
06/13/08 09:15 PM
06/13/08 09:15 PM

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Anonymous
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Quote:

Just get a good chain and line up the dots.No need to get fancy crank at 12 o clock and cam at 6.Then rotate twice and recheck.Button it up and your done.Rocky




If you want to degree the cam, you'll need a degree wheel, a dial indicator, and a way to accurately find TDC. Lot easier to do out of the car and with the heads off.

If you don't degree the cam, just switching keyways is complete guesswork that's as (or probably more) likely to be worse than better.

Re: TIMING CHAIN CHANGE FOR A FIRST TIMER #73289
06/13/08 10:45 PM
06/13/08 10:45 PM
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Florida
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mopar346 Offline
Let me tell ya about fat chicks!
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The only thing I would add to the last post is before you take the old chain and gears off line your marks up and then it should be a slip off and slip on set up. Verify the marks still line up, spin it twice recheck and your out of there, becareful to seal the pan to t-cover well. Not tough just take your time and pay attention, your be fine. Come back here with any questions along the way, better to ask a dumb question than make a dumb mistake!


Careful, your character's showing!
Re: TIMING CHAIN CHANGE FOR A FIRST TIMER [Re: mopar346] #73290
06/13/08 11:15 PM
06/13/08 11:15 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar Offline
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Without degreeing the cam you will never know for sure how it is installed, but the stock cams are so small that if they are off, it dosent make as big a difference compared to a high duration performance cam.

Here is a pic of the mopar tensioner, cloyes double roller timming set, and another photo taken with the degree wheel / dial indicator setup.

4487608-360tension.jpg (106 downloads)
Re: TIMING CHAIN CHANGE FOR A FIRST TIMER [Re: 451Mopar] #73291
06/13/08 11:18 PM
06/13/08 11:18 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar Offline
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oops, the degree wheel. Sorry about the photo quality, done with cell phone camera.

4487615-360Degree.jpg (110 downloads)
Re: TIMING CHAIN CHANGE FOR A FIRST TIMER [Re: mopar346] #73292
06/13/08 11:21 PM
06/13/08 11:21 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,475
Ontario, Canada
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78D150CLUB Offline
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I wouldn't recommend this for a first timer, but I changed the chain and gears in my 400 by lining the marks up with the gears in the chain and then rotating both till the keys lined up and they dropped right into place.
Yea, I know, i'm
It worked though.

I saw something I never had before when I changed them as well. An original factory nylon timing set WITHOUT any nylon missing in a 100,000 mile motor. Had grooves worn in the side of the teeth but nothing chipped or broken off.


I want to die like my Grampa, peacefully, in his sleep. Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
Re: TIMING CHAIN CHANGE FOR A FIRST TIMER [Re: 78D150CLUB] #73293
06/13/08 11:55 PM
06/13/08 11:55 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar Offline
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OK, you got me. Even though I have the tools, I have done the "line up the dots" intall when replacing timming sets in a few cars that had the stock cams, and they ran fine. On several of the newer belt driven 4 and 6-cylinder engine I just locked the cams from moving, and did a remove and replace of the timming belt.

Re: TIMING CHAIN CHANGE FOR A FIRST TIMER [Re: 451Mopar] #73294
06/14/08 11:06 AM
06/14/08 11:06 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,630
S.E.Ohio
Magnumguy Offline OP
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Magnumguy  Offline OP
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OK, I didn't know it was that involved to "degree" it.

What brand is the Advance timing set?


"Multiple Magnum owner since 1978!!"


https://www.facebook.com/groups/146952895354657/
Re: TIMING CHAIN CHANGE FOR A FIRST TIMER [Re: Magnumguy] #73295
06/14/08 11:32 AM
06/14/08 11:32 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 515
Dayton, Ohio
6
65cuda Offline
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Posts: 515
Dayton, Ohio
just changing the timming set is easy. use the keys that are on the old one. line it up dot to dot like the FSM says and you will be fine. Advance roller will be just fine. the biggie is to make sure the marks are correct when you do the dot to dot. look at your old one as to how far from the keyway the real dot is. some are not marked correctly so u have to check them with a known good one. i recently had a mis marked one on a motor and it dropped a vavle and ruined about 2k in parts. see att. and u can always ask on here for more help.

4488223-P5200001.JPG (102 downloads)

65 Cuda 360,3.23 SG-13.97 @99.4, 88 D100, 2000 Kota Qcab, 71 Duster 416 11.84 @110., 73 Imp ,(2)72 & (1)71 Dart Swingers
GarysMocars Legendary Dealer
Re: TIMING CHAIN CHANGE FOR A FIRST TIMER [Re: 65cuda] #73296
06/14/08 11:44 AM
06/14/08 11:44 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 515
Dayton, Ohio
6
65cuda Offline
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Dayton, Ohio
here is the old correctly marked one on the right and the mismarked one on the left. you can see the differance in the marks. the one on the left should have had the big mark by the tooth. and the speck by the keyway. that's what caused the failure. i trusted a good name chain set to be marked correctly.

4488238-P5230001.JPG (97 downloads)

65 Cuda 360,3.23 SG-13.97 @99.4, 88 D100, 2000 Kota Qcab, 71 Duster 416 11.84 @110., 73 Imp ,(2)72 & (1)71 Dart Swingers
GarysMocars Legendary Dealer
Re: TIMING CHAIN CHANGE FOR A FIRST TIMER [Re: 65cuda] #73297
06/14/08 12:35 PM
06/14/08 12:35 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,836
Florida
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mopar346 Offline
Let me tell ya about fat chicks!
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Florida
OUCH!!!


Careful, your character's showing!
Re: TIMING CHAIN CHANGE FOR A FIRST TIMER [Re: mopar346] #73298
06/14/08 12:56 PM
06/14/08 12:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 515
Dayton, Ohio
6
65cuda Offline
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 515
Dayton, Ohio
really thats the biggest pieces i could find of a KB107


65 Cuda 360,3.23 SG-13.97 @99.4, 88 D100, 2000 Kota Qcab, 71 Duster 416 11.84 @110., 73 Imp ,(2)72 & (1)71 Dart Swingers
GarysMocars Legendary Dealer
Re: TIMING CHAIN CHANGE FOR A FIRST TIMER [Re: 65cuda] #73299
06/15/08 12:00 AM
06/15/08 12:00 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,196
ILLINOIS
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volaredon Offline
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ILLINOIS
DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT buy a "stock replacement" or "factory HD upgrade" (double roller) from Useless Zone. Cloyes used to be one of the best but not any more. I just did the one in my 78 Fury (318) and when I went to install the Useless Zone-bought Cloyes chain, it had as much slop as the original nylon cam geared one did. I went to Advance and had them order me up an Edelbrock "True Roller" in my case, anyways, it was a much better chain set. Much tighter (but definitely not "binding") less slop in the chain as installed on the motor than the Cloyes.. Go do a search on that forgotten "B" site that I see you on all the time from about 10 weeks ago and you'll see what I went thru when I did mine.

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