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Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: CANDK] #729491
06/22/10 02:23 PM
06/22/10 02:23 PM
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Indiana
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YO7_A66 Offline OP
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Cand:

Please let us know how yours turns out. I hope to get to mine tonight but the wife keeps adding to my too-do list.


1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: YO7_A66] #729492
06/22/10 05:06 PM
06/22/10 05:06 PM
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Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: Mopar_Country] #729493
06/22/10 09:06 PM
06/22/10 09:06 PM
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Idaho
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Ok... I replaced my pickup coil, correctly gapped etc. I put the rotor back on, cap back on, and gave it a crank. Nada, not even a sputter of nothin. So, just on the off chance that I'm crazy, I grabbed my $2.99 Chinese spark tester and pulled #1 plug wire and stuck that in between the plug and the wire. Cranked again, no spark just as I figured.
I went ahead and left the key in run position, and pulled the harness to the orange box, checked voltage and got 11.5ish at the two pins that are supposed to have juice.
I decided to take a gamble and grabbed a 2nd orange box out of a crate. I pulled the harness (mine is mounted under the battery tray) out enough to get it plugged in. I hung it on the j-bolt for my battery hold down for a ground.
Car fired right up before I could let go of the key at about second 1.3 of cranking... with the spark tester still on #1 and all.
I have proper voltage on the ECU, at the coil, and at the pickup with the old orange box, yet no spark. I think I am going to just buy ECUs at frickin shucks from now on! This box is about 18 months old, but has less than 200 miles on it.

Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: Mopar_Country] #729494
06/22/10 09:16 PM
06/22/10 09:16 PM
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Indiana
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UPDATE:
I tested the coil pickup voltage and it was .5/.6v with engine turning over with the key.
I pulled the dist and as I was trying to install the new pickup I forgot that the FBO dist has a welded advance plate. So I scribed around the existing plate and cut the weld and got the new pickup in place and tapped a new hole and added a screw to tie it back down. The new pickup showed 323/325ohms and while hand spinning the shaft I got 1.5-1.7 volts. I set my .008" gap and got it installed again. I then rechecked the ohms and got the same reading but then I checked the voltage with the starter and I only got the .5/.6v again.
The engine started right up but I could not keep it going. I restarted it again and it fired right back up but I could not keep it running. It had a horrible miss. It kept dying and I kept starting it back up and as I tried to keep it running, the exhaust was making a popping or cracking noise. This was the last noise that I heard from the car before it died for the last time in the parking lot. I know that the timing is probably off a little but not enough to make the exhaust sound like it did. Once I can get it to run better I will recheck the initial timing and get it reset.
I am getting closer but there is still something wrong. What do you think now?

Thanks


1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: CANDK] #729495
06/22/10 09:20 PM
06/22/10 09:20 PM
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"checked voltage and got 11.5ish at the two pins that are supposed to have juice.""

Two pins showed 12ish volts? I only had the #1 showing 12 volts. Which two of the 5 should have voltage? This might help me with my existing issue.

Thanks


1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: YO7_A66] #729496
06/22/10 09:38 PM
06/22/10 09:38 PM
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Columbia, CT
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I'd at least pull the plugs and look them over. Might tell you something. Also do a compression test to rule out anything mechanical.


Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: YO7_A66] #729497
06/22/10 09:47 PM
06/22/10 09:47 PM
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Did you remove the reluctor when you had the dizzy apart. If so when it went back on did you use the same notch? One notch is for small block and one notch for big block, if you have the wrong one that would certainly be a problem. When you checked your air gap what kind of feeler gauge did you use?

Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: Mopar_Country] #729498
06/22/10 10:07 PM
06/22/10 10:07 PM
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Indiana
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David,
I will pull a couple of plugs but as good as it was running, I hope that it is not a mechanical issue. This thing shut off like a switch with no warning.

MC:
I bought a new reluctor and I placed it exactly like the old one with the pin at the double arrow. I used a .008" brass feeler.
Thank you,

Can someone confirm which of the 5 pins at the ECU should have 12v at the RUN position? I know that I had 12v at the #1 position (please refer to the previous schematic for numbering).

Thanks to all


1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: YO7_A66] #729499
06/22/10 10:14 PM
06/22/10 10:14 PM
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I'm pretty sure it is electrical, and the fact that it started after you replaced the pickup kinda reinforces that. Can you tdc compression stroke #1 and see if you can get your timing as close as possible, once at tdc put a dot on the side of the distributor with a marker under #1 on the cap. Pull the cap and turn the dist. so that the rotor is just slightly before #1. The dizzy isn't 180 out is it?

#1 pin should be 12 volts on the ecu

Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: Mopar_Country] #729500
06/23/10 02:54 AM
06/23/10 02:54 AM
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Idaho
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In the attached pic, I have 11.5 volts at the top center pin, and the top right pin, with the key in the run position.
Am I goofy, or could this be why my ECU fried? I have two pins (on the harness and ECU) with voltage to them...

6050521-P1020376.JPG (44 downloads)
Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: Mopar_Country] #729501
06/23/10 06:33 AM
06/23/10 06:33 AM
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I pulled a plug this morning before heading out to work and it smelled of GAS!! I must have had two problems, maybe one causing the second. I have enough juice to start it up but not enough to burn the fuel in the cylinders.
I am going to contact Mallory today and find out why my 1.4ohm primary coil only has .4ohms. I wonder if the resistor went out in the coil (this being a resistor coil so that I do not have to run a ballast) which fried the coil pickup. Because .4ohms is the resistance of their non-resistored coil.

MC:
I marked the housing of my distributor and noted where the rotor was facing before I removed the dist. It started up great but I could not keep it running due to the missing problem. I think either the coil is causing it or the gas soaked plugs are the problem. I almost think that the plugs are a result and not the problem.

CAND:
I swear that I also had 12v to the #1 and #4 (just like you pointed out) pins but when I checked them the other night, I only had voltage to #1. I will recheck again tonight.
I attached a pdf showing a closeup view of the ECU pins (looking at the ECU not at the harness) that was posted earlier.

After I recheck the pin voltage from the ECU harness, I am going to wire in my old FBO coil/ballast to see if my Mallory coil is the problem or not and also pull a couple more spark plugs just to make sure. The one I pulled this morning was a little dark but mainly gas soaked.

Thanks

6050548-ECUPinout.pdf (165 downloads)

1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: YO7_A66] #729502
06/23/10 09:40 AM
06/23/10 09:40 AM
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I spoke with Mallory this morning and after giving him my primary and secondary resistance readings he said that the coil has gone bad already after just three months. Then I told him that the coil had a buzzing noise and he said that is definately wrong.
He suggested that I contact Summit for a replacement and when I did, Summit did not have any in stock and could not get one until the end of July. So I opted for another Mallory coil that could be ran with my electronic ignition and with no ballast. It is a canister type coil and it has the same 1.4ohm primary (non ballast) but it has more secondary resistance and a higher max voltage output. I should have the coil tomorrow and I will get it rewired and tested ASAP.
Should I replace the spark plugs since they smelled like gas?

Thanks again,


1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: YO7_A66] #729503
06/23/10 10:59 AM
06/23/10 10:59 AM
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Idaho
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Good to know yours appears to be solved!
I've checked that #4 ECU pin probably a dozen times, and have had 11+ volts there everytime. Since that goes to the distributor, am I seeing this voltage as some signal going back to the ECU from the distributor or is there something just plain wrong here?

Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: YO7_A66] #729504
06/23/10 01:30 PM
06/23/10 01:30 PM
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So Cal
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Quote:

Should I replace the spark plugs since they smelled like gas?





Sounds like you are making head way. It is personal preference but if it is just a daily driver the plugs should be fine once the car starts up and burns the gas off the plugs. They just got fuel soaked while attempting to start the car. Hopefully the coil is the last thing needed.


Allen Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first. Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: HealthServices] #729505
06/23/10 05:25 PM
06/23/10 05:25 PM
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Glad you figured it out. Coil was my first thought as I have had several over the last 35 years do exactly what yours did. That is another reason I personally would not run that kind of coil on a street car. When a ballast resistor goes bad it will prevent you from driving the car until you replace it or jump it. I'm guessing the internal ballast lost some of its effectiveness and fried the coil. It may have also damaged that pickup coil as well, I'm sure it didn't hurt the new one as you didn't run it long enough. Keep us posted.

Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: CANDK] #729506
06/23/10 09:07 PM
06/23/10 09:07 PM
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CAND:
I checked the voltage at my ECU again tonight and I have 12 volts at two of the pins at the RUN position. The two wires with 12v are the Light Blue/Yellow tracer and the Black/Yellow tracer. (I believe the pin numbers are #1 and #2 and looking at your picture the same as yours.)

MC:
I agree that it appears that the coil went bad and then damaged the pickup coil too. But I have to add that the condition of the reluctor and pickup were questionable. The reluctor had heavy surface rust and all of the veins were worn down around the pickup area. It appeared that the pickup was touching the reluctor even though the hold down screw was very tight. It had been awhile (a year or so) since I had that dist out but I was surprised to see them touching each other with the tight screw.

I will get the next style of coil tomorrow and hopefully have time to try and start it tomorrow night and then I will see if anything else went sour too.

I pulled a couple more plugs and they appear fine but just a tad dark from the above issues.

Thanks again,


1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: YO7_A66] #729507
06/24/10 08:34 PM
06/24/10 08:34 PM
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Indiana
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UPDATE:
I put the new coil(Mallory but different style) in and first checked the spark from the coil wire. I put a screwdriver apx 1/4" away from the tip and when I cranked it over, a blue spark hit the screwdriver and then jumped about an inch away into the firewall. At that time I knew I had the voltage back! I hooked the coil wire up and turned the key and a split second later the engine was running with no effort at all. It idled better cold than it used to half way warmed up. I let it idle for a while and reset the timing then shut it off for about 15 minutes to let everything get hot. Then it cranked over and fired again in a split second.
I did not get to drive it but I will again this weekend. I want to thank everyone for their help!!!!



1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: YO7_A66] #729508
06/24/10 08:39 PM
06/24/10 08:39 PM
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So Cal
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Allen Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first. Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: HealthServices] #729509
06/24/10 09:18 PM
06/24/10 09:18 PM
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Tempe, AZ
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Glad to hear you got it running.


70 Cuda 340 4 speed - now stroked to 416ci (SOLD)
2017 Mustang Shelby GT350
Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: YO7_A66] #729510
06/27/10 03:37 PM
06/27/10 03:37 PM
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I missed your post, glad to hear you got it going.

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