Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4
Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: YO7_A66] #729471
06/21/10 06:46 PM
06/21/10 06:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
HealthServices Offline
Why would you even post that?
HealthServices  Offline
Why would you even post that?

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
I would call up mallory for that spec since the coil has a internal resistor.


Seems a really low.


Allen Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first. Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: HealthServices] #729472
06/21/10 07:08 PM
06/21/10 07:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,442
Indiana
Y
YO7_A66 Offline OP
master
YO7_A66  Offline OP
master
Y

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,442
Indiana
Health,

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MAA-30450/

3) .4 ohms
4) 9.1 kohms
5) 9.1 kohms

I have a question for you with the RUN voltage at the ECU. I turned the key to the RUN position and then I took voltage readings at the ECU harness and I only found 12v at the #1 position. Is this correct?

Thank you for your help.


1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: YO7_A66] #729473
06/21/10 07:32 PM
06/21/10 07:32 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,216
Under My Car
Mopar_Country Offline
pro stock
Mopar_Country  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,216
Under My Car
The list I have gives no readings for that coil for some reason, maybe because it is the epoxy series coil. Some of the other numbers I have are right in line with what you are showing.

The voltage at the ECU should be at least 8v in the run position and within .5v of the battery voltage when cranking.

I'm beginning to wonder if it might be the pickup in the dizzy.

Last edited by Mopar Country; 06/21/10 07:43 PM.
Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: YO7_A66] #729474
06/21/10 07:49 PM
06/21/10 07:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
HealthServices Offline
Why would you even post that?
HealthServices  Offline
Why would you even post that?

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
Quote:

I have a question for you with the RUN voltage at the ECU. I turned the key to the RUN position and then I took voltage readings at the ECU harness and I only found 12v at the #1 position. Is this correct?




It should be battery voltage but some lost is normal. 12 volts is not going to prevent you from starting the car. To check and see if you have voltage when cranking, (yes run voltage is off when cranking) remove the starter signal wire (should be the yellow wire) to the relay for testing purposes, then turn the key to crank and read the voltage.

Last edited by HealthServices; 06/21/10 08:03 PM.

Allen Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first. Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: HealthServices] #729475
06/21/10 08:18 PM
06/21/10 08:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,442
Indiana
Y
YO7_A66 Offline OP
master
YO7_A66  Offline OP
master
Y

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,442
Indiana
My bat is wearing down a touch but voltage at the coil and at the #1 ecu were both at 11+ volts at cranking.


1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: YO7_A66] #729476
06/21/10 08:25 PM
06/21/10 08:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
HealthServices Offline
Why would you even post that?
HealthServices  Offline
Why would you even post that?

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
Well it looks like your issue is one of 4 things...

coil (you are checking the spark at the coil not the plug so the rotor, cap and wires ares not currently the issue)

distributor (as in pickup)

ECU

Or wiring between the three (or ground) but not back to the firewall since you have voltage in the crank and in the run positions at the coil.


You mention you had the ECUs checked.


Allen Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first. Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: HealthServices] #729477
06/21/10 08:27 PM
06/21/10 08:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,216
Under My Car
Mopar_Country Offline
pro stock
Mopar_Country  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,216
Under My Car
Well, there are a couple of things you can try if you have not already. We know you had a problem at the bulkhead so to check that run a wire from positive battery terminal to positive coil terminal and see if it starts if not your connections at the bulk head are probably OK.

Secondly, if you pickup coil is bad you can check it. Grab your digital volt meter... set it to 2K ohms.. disconnect the 2 wire plug at the distributor. you should have around 800 ohms. give or take.. anywhere between 600 and 1,500 ohms is usually OK.

Before you disconnect the volt meter, flip the setting to 2 volts AC or 20 volts AC range crank the engine if the distributor is in, spin the shaft if it is out. For the system to work, you need to see over 1 volt AC.

If the pick up coil passes it's resistance test the gap is correct replace the reluctor. The reluctor keeps a small amount of magnetic field so as it passes the pick up coil AC voltage is created to trigger the ignition module. It takes about 0.6 volts AC to turn the power transistor on. If the pick up coil does not create enough voltage the power transistor will not have enough voltage to turn on. If its not on it cannot switch off discharging the coil primary.

If you need to adjust the air gap use an NON magnetic feeler gauge to do so, if you use a standard metal one it will kill the pickup.

Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: Mopar_Country] #729478
06/21/10 10:16 PM
06/21/10 10:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,442
Indiana
Y
YO7_A66 Offline OP
master
YO7_A66  Offline OP
master
Y

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,442
Indiana
Health:
Yes on the two ECU's tested at the store, coil and ECU are getting correct voltage at RUN and CRANK.
I have not tested the wiring from the ECU back thru to the firewall though. I better put that on my list, but I am assuming that it is good since the ECU and Coil are getting the required voltage.

Thank you very much,

MC,
The pickup coil was checked at 282ohms.
""crank the engine if the distributor is in, spin the shaft if it is out.""
Can you please explain this for me? Thanks
I need to check the reluctor gap. It has been a while since I did this.

Thank you very much,


1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: YO7_A66] #729479
06/21/10 10:35 PM
06/21/10 10:35 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,216
Under My Car
Mopar_Country Offline
pro stock
Mopar_Country  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,216
Under My Car
Basically spin the dizzy is all I'm saying to test the AC voltage in the reluctor. Did you switch to AC and make sure you have at least 1 volt AC. That pickup should be between 600 and 1500 ohms, usually 800 is optimum. Do you have a spare distributor to throw in there and try it to see if it will run. The ohms are way low on the pickup. I think that might be it!

Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: Mopar_Country] #729480
06/21/10 11:09 PM
06/21/10 11:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,442
Indiana
Y
YO7_A66 Offline OP
master
YO7_A66  Offline OP
master
Y

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,442
Indiana
I understand now. I thought that the lower the resistance the better.
I am done tonight but I will buy a new pickup coil tomorrow on my way home from work just in case the AC is too low. I need to spin the motor by hand and watch to make sure the dist rotor is moving too. It appears that I need to focus on the internals of the dist tomorrow night.

Thanks a bunch.


1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: YO7_A66] #729481
06/21/10 11:27 PM
06/21/10 11:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,216
Under My Car
Mopar_Country Offline
pro stock
Mopar_Country  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,216
Under My Car
If you have a different dizzy that you could swap out to see if it runs that would save you buying parts until your sure that's the problem. I had a early 70's van with a 318 in it that did the same thing and it really puzzled me for a while, but you have to go through the motions to get to the final conclusions. But it acted just as you described, run one minute and not the next. Although mine was much slower to go out so it left me sittin' more than once. The last time it did it it almost was if I was running out of gas when it finally quit. It would start and try and run but it was a chore to keep it going.

PS remember to use a brass feeler gauge to set the air gap to .008

Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: YO7_A66] #729482
06/22/10 12:11 AM
06/22/10 12:11 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
HealthServices Offline
Why would you even post that?
HealthServices  Offline
Why would you even post that?

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
Quote:


I have not tested the wiring from the ECU back thru to the firewall though. I better put that on my list, but I am assuming that it is good since the ECU and Coil are getting the required voltage.






It is good, do not waste any time on this part of the wiring.


Allen Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first. Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: HealthServices] #729483
06/22/10 06:32 AM
06/22/10 06:32 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,442
Indiana
Y
YO7_A66 Offline OP
master
YO7_A66  Offline OP
master
Y

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,442
Indiana
MC & HS:
The pickup coil should be cheap and they are on my way home.
Tonight's hit list:
check the new pickup coil for resistance
rotate motor to see if dist moves
spin dist for existing AC voltage
check existing pickup/reluctor gap
replace pickup coil if bad

Thank you very much.

Note: I can pickup this MP804 at my local NAPA and have it with me if I need it. I know that the picture is a tad off but I will inspect the new part for the 90 degree mounting tabs before I buy it.


1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: YO7_A66] #729484
06/22/10 07:44 AM
06/22/10 07:44 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,216
Under My Car
Mopar_Country Offline
pro stock
Mopar_Country  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,216
Under My Car
I just checked 2 known good distributors off my shelf and they are both in the 600 ohm range. Be sure and pay attention to which notch is on the pin in the reluctor when you take it apart. Good luck!

Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: Mopar_Country] #729485
06/22/10 08:03 AM
06/22/10 08:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,442
Indiana
Y
YO7_A66 Offline OP
master
YO7_A66  Offline OP
master
Y

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,442
Indiana
Thank you again MC.

I just read an article that explained the workings of the ignition systems for guys like me who are trying to understand it. This is a simple description of what it read:

Motor turns distributor shaft
Reluctor spins with distributor shaft which activates the pickup coil
Pickup coil sends signal to ECU (every time one of the 8 reluctor points pass by the pickup coil)
ECU sends signal to coil
Coil sends signal to top of distributor cap
Cap sends signal to plug wires

Since I have voltage at the ECU and at the Coil during the RUN and the START circuits, but I have no spark at the cap, then it is starting to make sense that the trigger (pickup coil) is not telling the rest of the ignition system what to do, as long as the distributor is moving with the engine.

I love this stuff!!

Thanks to all again. I will report back as soon as I get a chance to test the distributor.

6049017-Mopar_pickup.jpg (33 downloads)
Last edited by YO7_A66; 06/22/10 09:03 AM.
Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: YO7_A66] #729486
06/22/10 10:46 AM
06/22/10 10:46 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 344
Idaho
CANDK Offline
enthusiast
CANDK  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 344
Idaho
You can also unplug your dstributor, and then remove the cap, noting where the rotor is pointing. Crank the car over for a second, and walk back over and see if distributor has rotated etc.
I actually have the exact same issue that you do currently, and have tested and double-checked everything to arrive at the same point you are today! I am planning on getting a new reluctor in my dist this afternoon, but since I'm on the west coast, I hope you're up and running before I get home from work! At least that would give me some light at the end of the tunnel!

Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: CANDK] #729487
06/22/10 10:53 AM
06/22/10 10:53 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,216
Under My Car
Mopar_Country Offline
pro stock
Mopar_Country  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,216
Under My Car
Quote:

You can also unplug your dstributor, and then remove the cap, noting where the rotor is pointing. Crank the car over for a second, and walk back over and see if distributor has rotated etc.
I actually have the exact same issue that you do currently, and have tested and double-checked everything to arrive at the same point you are today! I am planning on getting a new reluctor in my dist this afternoon, but since I'm on the west coast, I hope you're up and running before I get home from work! At least that would give me some light at the end of the tunnel!




Are you sure its your reluctor, or is it the pickup coil?

Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: Mopar_Country] #729488
06/22/10 11:32 AM
06/22/10 11:32 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
M
moper Offline
I Live Here
moper  Offline
I Live Here
M

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
Dave,
The pickup as sold is just the pickup... Not the plate it clips in to witht he 90° tabs for the screws. The picture is correct. You push the pickup's plate down, remove the flat spring clip underneath the main plate, then replace the pickup.


Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: moper] #729489
06/22/10 11:39 AM
06/22/10 11:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,442
Indiana
Y
YO7_A66 Offline OP
master
YO7_A66  Offline OP
master
Y

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,442
Indiana
David,
Thanks for the heads up.


1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
Re: Car Quit In The Parking Lot: HELP [Re: Mopar_Country] #729490
06/22/10 01:49 PM
06/22/10 01:49 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 344
Idaho
CANDK Offline
enthusiast
CANDK  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 344
Idaho
Hehe, I did mean pick up coil... I said reluctor, probably because I'm reluctant to do it!
I'll let everyone know if this fixed mine; it's literally the last 'unknown' for mine too.

Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1