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Re: More Engine Problems
[Re: dogdays]
#72918
06/13/08 04:48 PM
06/13/08 04:48 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,363
Iowa
burdar
Owen's Dad
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Owen's Dad
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,363
Iowa
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The one thing I don't understand about timing is this. The whole point of timing is to give the flame front enough time to travel accross the chamber so you get max burn just after TDC. Why then do you want the total timing to be completely in by 3000RPM? Shouldn't the timing continue to increase with RPM? The higher the RPM, the less time it takes the piston to reach TDC. If the timing stays the same above 3000RPM, isn't the air/fuel mixture igniting way after the piston reaches TDC.
Last edited by burdar; 06/13/08 04:50 PM.
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Re: More Engine Problems
[Re: 71383beep]
#72920
06/13/08 06:57 PM
06/13/08 06:57 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 842
Urbana, MD
bordin34
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 842
Urbana, MD
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I did not try to do a burnout I tried putting a load on the engine to see how it would perform. I was trying to get in the ballpark on the timing. Now I know that I need to use a timing light.
Gary, I think his name is 383beepbeep, generously came over for a couple hours trying to nail the problem before to no avail last time. It had a bad coil.
The wires have less than a couple hundred miles on them and the rotor and cap look like new. The plugs also have about 100 miles on them.
It has 69 primary jets and stock in the secondaries.
And 71383bee
"The truly sad part is that it sounds to me that another 3rd gen big block charger is being beat to death for no reason... Go buy a nova or something for crying out load."
Hey, it's not your car I will do whatever I please to this one. If it goes against what you think is "correct" I simply don't care. It is just a car. This is my second 3rd gen Charger. I bought my first with my own money at 14 and this one with my own money at 15. Who cares if it is a big-block, it is also the most produced classic Charger EVER. Do you also feel you are better than me because you are not "beating your charger to death." People like you make young guys like me shy away from mopars. Usually older people embrace the young guys and try to teach them, you simply are not one of those good guys in this hobby. People like you make me and many others stay away from moparts, which is a valuable resource. Do you get your jollies off by insulting people and calling them stupid. You were young at one point if some [Edited by Moparts - Keep it clean] told you that you are wrecking your car what would you do? Like I said it is just a car. I hope that one day you will realize this.
BTW great looking Superbee!
Last edited by bordin34; 06/13/08 07:01 PM.
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Re: More Engine Problems
[Re: JohnRR]
#72921
06/13/08 07:15 PM
06/13/08 07:15 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
First thing to do is buy a timing tape for the balancer. Check initial timing and total timing.
Is this a Mopar Perf. distributor or a factory one ?
no the first thing to do is buy a freakin timing light .
i can not believe how many people are timing their engines BY EAR ...
must be cause thier all BLIND..yah..thats it.
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Re: More Engine Problems
[Re: 71383beep]
#72922
06/13/08 07:23 PM
06/13/08 07:23 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,233
Eastern North Carolina
cyphre666
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,233
Eastern North Carolina
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
First thing to do is buy a timing tape for the balancer. Check initial timing and total timing.
Is this a Mopar Perf. distributor or a factory one ?
no the first thing to do is buy a freakin timing light .
i can not believe how many people are timing their engines BY EAR ...
Let me get this straight...you set the timing by ear  and then tested your car out by trying to do a burn out?  I seem to recall this as your usual test method for troubleshooting.
Once again everybody has given good advice which will go nowhere and the usual excuses of, I'm too young, I'm too dumb, and My dad the mopar man said this will come 
The truly sad part is that it sounds to me that another 3rd gen big block charger is being beat to death for no reason...  Go buy a nova or something for crying out load.
 away man these posts are just turning into pure entertainment! 
If you are not smart enough to set int. timing by ear, you need to go back to school.
There is a point of load, no load and plain idle.
If you think, I am referring to setting the timing going down the road at 3,000 RPM. go back to the stupid school from which you came from.
I am just trying to help the guy, get some sort of initial timing. If you cannot comprehend this, go and drive your VW diesel.
If you don't like that, well kiss me where the sun don't shine
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Re: More Engine Problems
[Re: cyphre666]
#72923
06/13/08 07:40 PM
06/13/08 07:40 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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i for one understand your point BUT, sounds like this Kid is just learning, so timing it by ear is not the best way for him. The Best of the Best can do it, becouse thier familular with how there engine sounds/reacts. but they will still need to dial it in with a light, or take it down the 1/4 mile. But yah i agree, this kid has ALOT of problems with the car and should NOT be driving it. until its all sorted out. either that or go buy a NOVA 
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Re: More Engine Problems
[Re: bordin34]
#72924
06/13/08 07:44 PM
06/13/08 07:44 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,333
MARYLAND
69Cuda340S
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,333
MARYLAND
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Quote:
Now I know that I need to use a timing light.
Ok, get the light and set initial timing at 13 degrees advanced at idle with the vacuum disconnected. Degrease the vibration damper and put some timing tape on it so you can see what is going on. Also make sure you have 8 volts at the + side of the coil when then key is in the run position; check this with the engine off.
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Re: More Engine Problems
[Re: bordin34]
#72926
06/13/08 08:00 PM
06/13/08 08:00 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
BobR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
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Quote:
Some time this week I will hook up my timing light and see what I find. Until then, I will be looking at Novas...
At least you have a sense of humor. Really, though, I would not try to fly a jet or have my wife do a tuneup on her Porsche. If you don't know the basics take some of your hard earned money and let someone tune it for you. Watch, if he will let you, and you will forever know. -Bob
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Re: More Engine Problems
[Re: bordin34]
#72927
06/13/08 08:09 PM
06/13/08 08:09 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 902
Seattle, WA
rss
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 902
Seattle, WA
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Quote:
Some time this week I will hook up my timing light and see what I find. Until then, I will be looking at Novas...
Right on man!!! At least you've got a good sense of humor about it.
Keep at it and eventually you'll get it figured out and learn a bunch.
As some wise guy once said, "Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want."
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Re: More Engine Problems
[Re: 71383beep]
#72931
06/13/08 11:34 PM
06/13/08 11:34 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
i for one understand your point BUT, sounds like this Kid is just learning, so timing it by ear is not
the best way for him. The Best of the Best can do it, becouse thier familular with how there engine sounds/reacts.
but they will still need to dial it in with a light, or take it down the 1/4 mile. But yah i agree,
this kid has ALOT of problems with the car and should NOT be driving it. until its all sorted out. either
that or go buy a NOVA
Bingo
I guess your a big meanie that's ruining the hobby for our precious youth just like me.
I could honestly care less about ruining the experience for this kid because from all of his posts he's barely smart enough to run a lawn mower.
Honestly just sell the car before you ruin a second one.
Ohh was that too harsh...reality bites man. You want someboddy to fix your car and wipe your [Edited by Moparts - Keep it clean] for you you are looking in the wrong place.
And don't label me as in inexperienced fool because I don't have the "old school wisdom" to time a motor by ear. Gimme a break this is laziness plain and simple. To hook up a timing light and check takes little to no effort...just common sense. An item seriously lacking here.
OK....
your a inexperienced fool because you don't have the "old school wisdom" to time a motor by ear.
you've just been labeled
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Re: More Engine Problems
[Re: 79powerwagon]
#72932
06/13/08 11:46 PM
06/13/08 11:46 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
master
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master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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Quote:
Again, I have to throw out here, can someone in the know, and in the area, help this guy out so he can learn the right way to do these things?  
Way too many things to check, and without the right tools you could spend days chasing what you think is a problem, only to find the problem is something else.
A long time ago, I spent a day messing with tuning the carburator on my friends '70 Challenger (because he insisted that must be the problem), just to find out his new "on-sale" sparkplug wires were junk!
I finally convinced him to put his old spark plug wires back on as a "test", and the car ran great.
you could have a simular situation where you mess with the ignition system for a few days, then find out it might be a fuel system problem?
A dial-back timming light would make easy work figuring the ignition timming and advance. A digital multimeter could be used to check spark plug resistance, but a diagnostic scope would be even better. And with those tools you can get an idea if the ignition system is functioning correctly, and it may be fine leading you to trouble shoot other possabilities like the fuel system. Do you have good fuel pressure? A split or loose fuel line may not alaways leak fuel, but it could allow air to be sucked into the fuel system. I had this problem with the rubber line that connects the hard line to the gas tank pickup. This was a bear to figure out! Same with fuel lines that are partly plugged up, or gas tanks that do not vent correctly, and I'm just talking fuel delivery issues, not carburator tuning issues, thats another can of worms....
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Re: More Engine Problems
[Re: bordin34]
#72934
06/14/08 12:24 AM
06/14/08 12:24 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
In regards to the man that offered me the timing light, I don't feel that I need it. I am going to use the one I have right now. I am sure somebody else could use it instead of me having two.
Quote:
Quote:
i for one understand your point BUT, sounds like this Kid is just learning, so timing it by ear is not
the best way for him. The Best of the Best can do it, becouse thier familular with how there engine sounds/reacts.
but they will still need to dial it in with a light, or take it down the 1/4 mile. But yah i agree,
this kid has ALOT of problems with the car and should NOT be driving it. until its all sorted out. either
that or go buy a NOVA
Bingo
I guess your a big meanie that's ruining the hobby for our precious youth just like me.
I could honestly care less about ruining the experience for this kid because from all of his posts he's barely smart enough to run a lawn mower.
Honestly just sell the car before you ruin a second one.
Ohh was that too harsh...reality bites man. You want someboddy to fix your car and wipe your [Edited by Moparts - Keep it clean] for you you are looking in the wrong place.
And don't label me as in inexperienced fool because I don't have the "old school wisdom" to time a motor by ear. Gimme a break this is laziness plain and simple. To hook up a timing light and check takes little to no effort...just common sense. An item seriously lacking here.
You must feel like a big man now. OOO AHHH you can hide behind a computer screen and call a 16 year old stupid. I hope someday you need help and all some [Edited by Moparts - Keep it clean] does it mock and ridicule you for not having the god-given knowledge of knowing how to expertly tune an engine. You continue to mock me, yet you can't get your own engine running right. I do not need your so called "help" so just [Edited by Moparts - Keep it clean] off. The point of a forum like this is to share our hobby and aid each other in the fixing of our own car. You obviously have adopted the "holier than thou" mentality. There are many asses in this world and you are one of them. If you are going to Carlisle, I look forward to meeting you. I truly hope that you are an [Edited by Moparts - Keep it clean] to the wrong person one day and get the ever loving [Edited by Moparts - Keep it clean] beat out of you.
now thats inexperiance talking..
anyways,
i still think you have a valvetrain problem (i posted that MONTHS ago).
valves/lifters/pushrod/rocker one of those arn't up to snuff. i don't think
timing is the problem ( i based this on what YOU say). but i cannot STRESS this enough.. KEEP ENGINE runtime to a bare MINIMUM,
otherwise you WILL make things worse. tear off the valvecovers, check the rockers,
pushrods, springs, etc. then report back.
BTW, did you fix the brakes before you did the 5000rpm backfiring engine test drive ?
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Re: More Engine Problems
#72935
06/14/08 08:30 AM
06/14/08 08:30 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 842
Urbana, MD
bordin34
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 842
Urbana, MD
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I have removed the valvecovers and there was no play that I could find in the rockers. I will take them off again to make sure. There was however a little bit of side to side play in them.
I did not fix the brakes yet, they stop fine for what I need them to. I have tried putting PB Blaster and vice grips on the bleeder to no avail.
Last edited by bordin34; 06/14/08 08:33 AM.
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Re: More Engine Problems
[Re: bordin34]
#72937
06/14/08 09:27 AM
06/14/08 09:27 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,728
places
79powerwagon
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,728
places
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Side to side movement is normal on a stock rocker set up. Are all of your push rods "in their right place", meaning that they are in the cup designed to receive them? Some times they pop off... Here is a trick for your bleeders (though it's too late now that you've already used the vice-grips): use a 6 point deep well socket. If you use a metric one, it'll be a bit too tight (only a bit). Take a hammer and carefully drive it right onto the bleeder. NOW, use the ratchet handle and unscrew the bleeder, and take it to your parts store and buy new ones. Since brake parts are so cheap, I'd just get a set of new slave cylinders and calipers and install them, instead of trying to get ancient parts to work. These cars aren't difficult to work on, and they are simple technology compared to todays cars. Yes, there is a lot to understand, but if you can understand, you'll be that much further ahead in the long run! Remember, all cars were like this for the first 70+ years of cars, so many of the "older" folks do understand them, as one had too in order to use these as daily drivers back then. Since computer controls and EFI have come into play, most people are forgetting what it was like before that, and some younger people have never been exposed to this. Hang in there, you'll get it with some patience!
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