Re: Which hemi car or truck
[Re: gtx69]
#72797
06/13/08 08:52 AM
06/13/08 08:52 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,564 St. Clair Shores, Michigan
bigsbigelow
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,564
St. Clair Shores, Michigan
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I believe the mds in the trucks was introduced in 07. Might be 06, though. Can someone clarify this? I also wasn't specific enough before, the 5.7 hemis in the cars all have mds but the 6.1 hemis do not.
Last edited by bigsbigelow; 06/13/08 08:55 AM.
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Re: Which hemi car or truck
[Re: bigsbigelow]
#72801
06/13/08 09:27 AM
06/13/08 09:27 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204 Fort Worth, TX
Clair_Davis
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
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Why not use it if it's available? I drive my muscle cars for the muscle as well, but the time I actually USE that aspect of the car is MAYBE 1% of the time, being very generous. Granted, the time that I might be in the right parameters to engage the MDS might not be very frequent either, but I'd wager that it would be more often than WOT. I'd personally hate to leave any economy on the table, for those times that I'm driving to an autocross event, or cruising with my family out to the lake with the top down. If there's some reason that it renders the salvage engine inop, that's one thing, but I can't imagine that's the case.
Clair
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Re: Which hemi car or truck
[Re: burdar]
#72802
06/13/08 09:27 AM
06/13/08 09:27 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,564 St. Clair Shores, Michigan
bigsbigelow
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,564
St. Clair Shores, Michigan
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I know it only works while cruising but all I am saying is personally I would like all cylinders firing at all times and I would probably swap a carb. onto it as well. But if gtx69 wants mds then any year HEMI that came in a car will do.
Last edited by bigsbigelow; 06/13/08 09:28 AM.
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Re: Which hemi car or truck
[Re: gtx69]
#72805
06/13/08 02:21 PM
06/13/08 02:21 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,828 houston texas
gremlinsteve
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,828
houston texas
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mds or no mds...does not matter. all the hemis and that includes the 6.1 have the provision for it. use the early truck or 6.1 mds plugs and get rid of the solenoid if its not wanted or needed.
mds wont work even if you use anything over a 20 weight motor oil also.
what concerns me is the chasis. the truck uses a high mount alt and a/c compressor.
the auto stuff is low and on the side.
check your chasis and see if one works better than the other. i prefer the car motor myself.
the cars use a much better intake manifold.
steve
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Re: Which hemi car or truck
[Re: gremlinsteve]
#72806
06/13/08 02:26 PM
06/13/08 02:26 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,828 houston texas
gremlinsteve
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,828
houston texas
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mds uses too much information to activate it. you would have a wiring nightmare i think to get it operational. the lx cars themselves have 7 computers. each talking to each other.
the mds system uses oil pressure..oil temp...water temp...pressure on the throttle...vacuum reading.. just to name a few that need to be met to initiate its operation.
heck...they even set codes if the motor does not come up to temp fast these days. so adding low temp thermostats can be tricky at times.
if it was me, i would forgo the factory computer and run the motor without the mds ect.. they really are a nice engine that can make good power.
steve
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Re: Which hemi car or truck
[Re: gremlinsteve]
#72807
06/13/08 09:35 PM
06/13/08 09:35 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,130 Dayton, Ohio
wldtm
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,130
Dayton, Ohio
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i would recommend an 04 manual trans 2500 Dodge ram PCM. You do not have to worry about limp in mode with a manudal trans controller. A truck engine will fit in an a-body. One concern is the back of the intake is basically resting on the firewall/bulkhead. The alternator and compressor will clear the hood though. The car manifold is suppose to be better flow, and the no spark plug wires looks a little bit better on the later cars.
Good luck...
I have no experience with the MDS on a swap, so I cant give any advice there!
Justin
Interested in having you car wired? Drag car, street car, EFI swap?
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Re: Which hemi car or truck
[Re: Clair_Davis]
#72809
06/14/08 12:21 AM
06/14/08 12:21 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,828 houston texas
gremlinsteve
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,828
houston texas
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a solenoid. its dropped in from the "lifter" valley area on these motors. remove the intake manifold on these motors, its dry so no coolant sees it, and you will see four plugs.
these plugs, again, are either plugged or use a solenoid. cyl 1 and 7 along with cyl 4 and 6 are mds. the solenoid dropps pressure to the lifter. the
the exhaust valve is cracked open using the system and the intake remains closed.
the computer drops the injector for the mds cyl at the same time.
its a very complicated system and only works on a stock computer. obviously.
again. the system reads alot of information that has to be met before it works.
if you change oil in the car amd move to 30 weight from the standard advised 20 weight oil, the syetm will not operate.
i have pics if interested.
steve
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Re: Which hemi car or truck
[Re: gremlinsteve]
#72810
06/14/08 12:24 AM
06/14/08 12:24 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,828 houston texas
gremlinsteve
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,828
houston texas
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and again. wether you use a truck or car 5.7 or 6.1 depends on where you want or need the accessories placed in the chasis.
i prefer the 5.7 car intake. using it on a truck platform will give you grief tho.
a 6.1 intake can be adapted to a truck accesory drive tho. but in our testing. the 5.7 car intake on a 5.7 modded car motor out performed the 6.1 intake across the curve.
some have tested and shown slight increases tho.
i still prefer a carb intake and go from there..
steve
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Re: Which hemi car or truck
[Re: gremlinsteve]
#72811
06/14/08 12:40 AM
06/14/08 12:40 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,828 houston texas
gremlinsteve
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,828
houston texas
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the truck style coil packs from the earlier years can be changed over to the newer style dual plug on single coil system. its a much cleaner look. lets you lose the long plug wires.
kits run in the 300-350 range.
comes with eight coil packs. the valve covers..pig tail ect..everything one would need.
steve
if You Like Gremlinsteve. Gremlinsteve Likes You.
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Re: Which hemi car or truck
[Re: Clair_Davis]
#72813
06/14/08 06:08 PM
06/14/08 06:08 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,712 Sacramento, Ca
Darius
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,712
Sacramento, Ca
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i am swapping every piece I can swap from a wrecked 07 Charger R/T to a 1970 GTX. The GTX goes to the paint stripper on Tuesday. The 5.7 came out of the donor car with ALL of the harness intact....very easy "plug-in" harness! I cannot say what "issues" will come up yet but our intent is to put everything in the GTX just like it came out of the donor car. I am POSITIVE we will encounter some curves, i.e. override ABS system for one,and who knows what else. The plan is to get it running as stock as we can then start tweaking it. The only drive train piece we won't be doing is the independent rear suspension (Air Ride 4 link w coil overs).I think this approach will be easiest not counting getting everything mounted in a reasonable way. The 5.7 will sit in an Alterktion instead of a "K" frame so the only clearance issues appear to be the oil pan. Wath my thread "major Score" on the general Discussion section for ongoing updates. We have some rust issues (imagine that) to deal with first so it will be a little bit but this project is moving right along. Got the wreck from copart for what I thought was a real good deal considered it still ran and drove.
Driving modern convenience in classic beauty
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Re: Which hemi car or truck
[Re: Darius]
#72814
06/14/08 10:27 PM
06/14/08 10:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,030 JAX FLA
Curt
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,030
JAX FLA
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Concerns with the whole Kit And Kaboodle 07 rt swap; Anti-theft key, ABS to drive by wire logic contol problem (traction control) ABS, stability management (yaw sensors) throttle control Multiplexing modules ...no "handshake" no start If I were doing the whole shebang I would do it ALL...Trans, ABS, SRS (use column, simulators in other areas), instrument cluster, Fuel pump module, (If fuel level gets too low the ECM shuts off the fuel pump to save it from overheating) a HUGE list...I would think twice about it and I am good at and really enjoy electrical work. I would think the carb option, or the $3,000 FAST system option would be the way to go, I am thinking about this for myself as well. Just my Curt
Oh yeah...THAT'S gonna leave a mark!
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Re: Which hemi car or truck
[Re: Curt]
#72815
06/14/08 11:40 PM
06/14/08 11:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,511 Tampa , Fl
MoparJoe
super gas
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super gas
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,511
Tampa , Fl
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I would consider an aftermarket harness that runs with the factory PCM/TCM at least, you will have to use the rear from the LX car if you plan on using the NAG trans- the TCM will freak on put the car in limp mode if it's not happy- my car has gone into limp from spinning then catching in 2nd gear.
They're really picky on batterys also, I threw an optima in mine and it wouldn't run because the battery temp wasn't in range or some B.S.
Last edited by MoparJoe; 06/14/08 11:47 PM.
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Re: Which hemi car or truck
[Re: Curt]
#72816
06/14/08 11:50 PM
06/14/08 11:50 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,712 Sacramento, Ca
Darius
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,712
Sacramento, Ca
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Quote:
Concerns with the whole Kit And Kaboodle 07 rt swap; Anti-theft key, ABS to drive by wire logic contol problem (traction control) ABS, stability management (yaw sensors) throttle control Multiplexing modules ...no "handshake" no start If I were doing the whole shebang I would do it ALL...Trans, ABS, SRS (use column, simulators in other areas), instrument cluster, Fuel pump module, (If fuel level gets too low the ECM shuts off the fuel pump to save it from overheating) a HUGE list...I would think twice about it and I am good at and really enjoy electrical work. I would think the carb option, or the $3,000 FAST system option would be the way to go, I am thinking about this for myself as well. Just my Curt
This leads to an obvious question. Where can one get the factory codes, or can you? On the rear end; If you put the same gear in it would that solve some of the issues? We are going to use the same ignition system,why not? This is a resto-mod anyway so exact factoryness is not required. Seems like there should be some way around the programming. Do you all think FAST is closest to having this solved?? I appreciate this input, Thank You
Driving modern convenience in classic beauty
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Re: Which hemi car or truck
[Re: Darius]
#72817
06/15/08 12:01 PM
06/15/08 12:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,030 JAX FLA
Curt
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,030
JAX FLA
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Codes are the result of something incorrect...not trying to be a S.A. but the secret to doing it is to make sure there are no mistakes initially. The FAST system will not control the trans. It can control the ignition and fuel system. There is a grey area that is the knock sensor control circuitry/logic. FAST will probably not control the MDS as well. I would not consider using the factory system W/O the steering column, 4 channel ABS and controller... I am not sure if chrysler uses the brake diaphram position sensor, at least uses the brake pedal switches. So maybe pedal assy's. Instrument cluster, PCM/TCM... Don't get me wrong it would be a cool set-up, just take a very long time to acomplish. The computer controls the charging system, cruise, A/C, I think it even controls the horn relay There are other companies that make wiring harnesses to make the engine/trans "work" I have not heard of a system that does it consistently/ accurately without compromises. The real problem is no-one has spent the SUBSTANTIAL time and moey to completely hack the chrysler operating systems. Look at the trans connector above the pan rail...I bet it is leaking. On mercedes (same trans) the tranny fluid can actually pump up the wires into the TCM....failure. Realistically...my thoughts, Use engine that you have, get carb manifold Get FAST XIM unit (verify standalone ignition control) Oil pan Engine mounts Talk to Firm Feel about using high pressure P/S pump w/old worm gear assy. Bolt on trans of your choice..lower cost = mechanical trans hook up exhaust (no headers) This gets you running and driving as cheap as possible.... Then careful shopping for steel crank, good rods, custom pistons, camshaft. Now it is time to step up to Fuel Injection and forced induction. The EDIST system is a requirement to use the FAST fuel controller. Have carb manifold modified for injectors. Make log type manifolds for turbos.. more food for thought Curt
Last edited by Curt; 06/16/08 08:20 PM.
Oh yeah...THAT'S gonna leave a mark!
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