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Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. [Re: gtx69] #723558
06/24/10 12:37 PM
06/24/10 12:37 PM
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Quote:

Which way is better to hook up the power.Alternator'battery or at the starter relay?What guage wire are you using 10 guage?




10 gauge is for 30 amps , that thing pulls 60 to start , I think you are looking at a 4 gauge CABLE ...

Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. [Re: JohnRR] #723559
06/24/10 02:17 PM
06/24/10 02:17 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

Which way is better to hook up the power.Alternator'battery or at the starter relay?What guage wire are you using 10 guage?




10 gauge is for 30 amps , that thing pulls 60 to start , I think you are looking at a 4 gauge CABLE ...




I would assume you wouldn't need a heavier gauge than MB supplied to it from the factory, and you could look at the plug and tell it's not 4g.

Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. [Re: Pat_Whalen] #723560
06/24/10 03:38 PM
06/24/10 03:38 PM
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I'm thinking 10 guage from factory ?

Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. [Re: gtx69] #723561
06/24/10 04:07 PM
06/24/10 04:07 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

Which way is better to hook up the power.Alternator'battery or at the starter relay?What guage wire are you using 10 guage?




10 gauge is for 30 amps , that thing pulls 60 to start , I think you are looking at a 4 gauge CABLE ...




The fan flashed to 50 amps just long enough to see it on a digital meter then it backed down. They run at 39 amps.

I ran from the alternator. You can do that, the battery, or the starter relay. Whatever is easiest. They are all major power centers.

The wire from the factory is 12 gauge with really thick insulation.
Since I only had to run 3 feet of wire, I used some 10 gauge that I had on hand. It's thicker than the 12 gauge the factory uses to run 5 feet from the power distribution block.

If you have to run from a battery out back, I'd step up a size but if you're keeping the run fairly short you should be okay. 4 gauge cable isn't necessary. The 130+ amp alternators don't run that size cable back to the battery. Perhaps you're thinking 120 VAC?

Have you fired up that fan yet as a bench test? The first time you do, you'll wonder when it's going to start spinning. When it begins to spin you'll wonder if it'll ever stop accelerating.
They really do move stupid amounts of air.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. [Re: feets] #723562
06/24/10 04:14 PM
06/24/10 04:14 PM
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Orderd the wire only one per package should have other wire friday will be running it.Radiator is out of car just waiting on the other wire.I can just run it to the batterty post or alternator.Battery is about 1 feet .Alternator is about 3 feet .

Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. [Re: feets] #723563
06/24/10 04:16 PM
06/24/10 04:16 PM
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Why would you even post that?
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Allen Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first. Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. [Re: HealthServices] #723564
06/24/10 04:18 PM
06/24/10 04:18 PM
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Pretty close! I just sent a friend a message asking if I could borrow his anemometer to check the air velocity coming out of the fan.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. [Re: feets] #723565
06/24/10 06:57 PM
06/24/10 06:57 PM
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very intresting! think i may have a good look at one of these fans if i can fit it in my a-body.

also i gues it would be a good idea to upgrade from the small stock alternator while being at it

40amps running is alot of power but well worth it if it cools the motor right thanks for the upgrade advice

Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. [Re: 1Fast340] #723566
06/24/10 08:56 PM
06/24/10 08:56 PM
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Problem is, without an appropriate test machine, a standard DVMM can't measure the in-rush current of the fan as it kicks on. Although with it ramping up like I see in the video, it won't be nearly as high as just slamming it.

Any more information about differential voltage to the trigger having an effect on fan speed. I'd place my order tonight if that were the case Planned on programming a controller myself to handle multiple output voltages based on temp.

Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. [Re: Pat_Whalen] #723567
06/24/10 10:50 PM
06/24/10 10:50 PM
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I might be able to get a 5 volt sensor signal to the fan by unplugging my relay under the dash and jumping power from my EFI sensor output. It's a long shot.
I do know that Andrewh's Mercedes has a multi-speed fan and it's the same style setup as these. It usually runs on a low speed until the A/C kicks in then it steps up.

I've got to mess with the hot rod this weekend because I lost my dash, tail, and brake lights. If I get the chance I'll try the fan with a 5 volt signal.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. [Re: feets] #723568
06/24/10 11:27 PM
06/24/10 11:27 PM
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The fan has 2 slots for two trigger wires would one be low speed the other high.

Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. [Re: gtx69] #723569
06/24/10 11:37 PM
06/24/10 11:37 PM
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No. The second small wire is a feedback for the engine computer according to my shop foremen. They've been working on Mercedes for 20+ years so I'm inclined to believe them. I tried powering and grounding the second wire while the fan was running and while it was stopped. I got no response.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. [Re: feets] #723570
06/25/10 12:04 AM
06/25/10 12:04 AM
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I'd be interested to see the circuitry inside the fan shroud/controller. Initially, you'd think it were just a large, maybe 70a relay that is housed internally. But if you're saying a variable voltage input would then use some sort of PWM to decrease or increase fan speed, there is no way that's the case. Break one open

Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. [Re: Pat_Whalen] #723571
06/25/10 08:18 AM
06/25/10 08:18 AM
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Feets, In that vid I wonder if it can take off and hover in place!

Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. [Re: Pat_Whalen] #723572
06/25/10 11:40 AM
06/25/10 11:40 AM
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Quote:

I'd be interested to see the circuitry inside the fan shroud/controller. Initially, you'd think it were just a large, maybe 70a relay that is housed internally. But if you're saying a variable voltage input would then use some sort of PWM to decrease or increase fan speed, there is no way that's the case. Break one open




I have a spare fan with a damaged shroud and blade. I tried pulled the motor and tried to open it. The back is epoxied on. Since it's a good spare for the one in my car I decided to leave it alone.
I have a fan off a bigger car with a different shroud. I might pull it down and see what it looks like inside.
There is simply no way for me to bench test it inside. I have to power it off one of my vehicles. That's tricky with a loose motor that can be as dangerous as these.

Quote:

Feets, In that vid I wonder if it can take off and hover in place!




I've often thought about that too. My concern is getting a finger caught in one trying to keep it from flopping around.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. [Re: feets] #723573
06/25/10 01:51 PM
06/25/10 01:51 PM
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Do we have any road tests yet?
What was your temps before and after?
What set up were you using before this fan.

Nice post feets

Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. [Re: DAMOPARS] #723574
06/25/10 02:27 PM
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We do have driving results with Andrewh's 65 Coronet with a 5.9 Magnum. The fan only runs for a couple minutes. In that time it pulls the temp down low enough to shut itself off. He has an aluminum radiator and I believe a 180 degree thermostat.

His old system consisted of a '90 Nissan Maxima fan and brass radiator. It was the same system I had in the hot rod.

I have heat soaked the TT440 in the hot rod to 230 degrees (stuck thermostat) and the fan pulled the temp down to 200 in a few minutes of idling. It will run down the road between the on and off temps I have set on the fan. It's set to turn on at 195 and off at 175. The water thermostat is a 180 degree unit. When idling in the driveway the fan can pull the engine temperature lower than the thermostat is set to open. It's pretty impressive in my book when you can cool the engine low enough to close the thermostat and keep dropping the temperature of the water pump housing with the engine running. That's on a 100 degree Texas summer day.

As soon as I figure out why I don't have any tail, brake, or dash lights I'll get it back on the road.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. [Re: feets] #723575
06/25/10 03:23 PM
06/25/10 03:23 PM
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it has a stock 5.9 thermostat, so it is 190 or 195, can't remember which.

The computer is set to turn the fan on at 210 and shut it off at 195. I regularly see the temps go down to 187 when the fan shuts off.

Only when the a/c was running have I ever seen the fans run contiuously at idle. I guess it just gave off that much more heat that it never got to the 195 shut off. But I didn't have the computer hooked up at that time, so I can't tell you the exact temp. I don't have the new trinary switch hooked up yet, so it had nothing to do with the a/c being on other than temp.

I think it was about 85 in the garage at that time.

I only had one instance where it ran a bit warmer than normal. On the way to feets house that day. Doing around 80 ish on the way there, it ran just a little hotter than normal, but on the way home I didn't see anything different. It was about 20 degrees hotter that evening vs the morning I drove over. All I can figure is the fan came on before I hit the freeway and didn't allow enough air to pass to get to the shut off temp. But I didn't over heat, so no big deal.

I do run a dual pass cross flow, so I am not sure how it will cool with a normal rad.

I can tell computer temps when I hook up a laptop, but only have the old gauge to go by when driving. normally it stands straight up and down during normal driving. Just slightly over on the hot side when the fan comes on, and slightly to the cold side when the fan shuts off.
It ran at the fan on place on the way, and it ran and the fan shut off temp on the way home.

I normally tool around town, so stop and go driving, and never had that issue.

Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. [Re: Andrewh] #723576
06/25/10 03:36 PM
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For the record, Andrewh lives 25 miles or so from my place and it's all freeway driving.
The day of the Chrysler PDC show it was in the upper 90s outside. When he pulled into the shop at work his fan turned off in just a minute or so.
My hot rod with the dual Maxima fans was running around 210 with both of them turned on.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. [Re: Pat_Whalen] #723577
06/25/10 07:03 PM
06/25/10 07:03 PM
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Quote:

I'd be interested to see the circuitry inside the fan shroud/controller. Initially, you'd think it were just a large, maybe 70a relay that is housed internally. But if you're saying a variable voltage input would then use some sort of PWM to decrease or increase fan speed, there is no way that's the case. Break one open




OK, here's a fresh pic. This is also a 600w motor but it came from a GL450 SUV.
I left the pic big so you can click on it and see details. It has two 2700 u-m caps and is obviously set up for two speed operation. The circuitry is a wee bit more complicated than what you'd need for a simple two speed fan motor.
Can someone with a little more knowledge tell me what the green resistor thingie is for?
I assume the electromagnet looking coil is there to provide a charge to the plates inside the windings.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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