Okydoke, I will see if Andrew can find the 12v only version, in the meantime do you have a link to a site if I decide to go the controller route?


I can then see what it does and try and work it in around my own system,

Many thanks

Regards

Dave

One of these years I'll update my site

http://ma-uav.com/FanControllerv3.html

Thanks for that, I will pop over and have a look.

Re updating, don't do that the prices might go up........I hate it when that happens don't you? 8>(

Many thanks,

Regards

Dave

Since this was my mess in the beginning, I'll step back in here.

There are two types of fans for the 203 chassis C-class.

Each style has the same four wire plug. the wires are:
1) Big power input. <~~~ must handle 50+ amps!
2) Big power ground. <~~~ must handle 50+ amps!
3) Little signal input lead. <~~~ tiny little thing.
4) Little feedback lead. <~~~ tiny little thing.

One has wires leading from the plug directly to the fan motor.

<~~~~ best fan!


The other has a large visible heat sink between the plug and the motor.

<~~~~ dies with 12 volt feed

<~~~~ No direct 12 volt!

The fans with a visible heat sink will die in just a minute or two of full 12 volt connection to the small input wire.

Either type of fan can be used with Hooziewhatsis's fan controller.


Mercedes has a habit of over engineering everything. The fans have all the logic and run speeds built into them. The car simply tells the fan to run at speed #6 or run at speed #12. The fan looks up the requested speed on it's on-board logic circuits and controls it's own speed.

When you feed the more desirable fan 12 volts directly to the input lead it will think there is a problem and default to full speed.

The fans with the heat sink do not have the circuit protection. Feeding them a direct 12 volts to the input will fry the on-bard electronics and burn up the fan.

When developing the controller offered by Hooziewhatsit we spliced an o-scope into a Mercedes wire harness to capture what the car was telling the fan. Hoozie then replicated that signal using the temperature sensor readings.


Rest assured that if you have air flow issues that fan will solve it. Andrewh laid a fan on top of his engine (resting on the intake and radiator) and it kept the engine cool for over 30 minutes of idling in his driveway.

Yep its all your fault 'feets'..........but I am glad you did mate.

I have no air flow issues at all, just finding a decent GENUINE Lincoln MK VIII two speed fan a RPITA, my present one slowly dying a death, so looking for a reliable replacement that is readily available.

All my wiring/relays are up to snuff to kick the fan into life, but of course that is already taken care of by the Mercedes setup, if nothing else the Mercedes setup is tidy and waterproof to boot.

At present my two speed unit running on slow easily cools the engine, and the high speed comes in for the AC, I have a custom dash mount for LED'S for speed indication and other 'stuff'going on around the motor.

I am keen to keep my dash as is, it was not cheap having he dead front material etched.

I will look for the 12v only fan and experiment to see how it fits etc.

Thanks so much for the fan ID pic, at least I know what to look out for, same to Andrew and Dave for their help as well.

I may be back for a controller yet!

Regards

Dave

94-97 Tbird/Cougar with the 4.6L are the current choice due to availability

http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/ford,1996,thunderbird,4.6l+v8,1140590,cooling+system,radiator+fan+assembly,2181

Thanks for the link.

I recently contacted Rockauto and may have connected with a numbskull?

He was unsure if this was a two speed unit, and kept asking for a chassis number, he could not get his head around the fact it was being used for a custom install, so no numbers available.

Your link does show a fan that looks very similar to my Lincoln version, I might try again?

Many thanks.

Regards

Dave

Update, I have picked up a fan that needs the controller, there were shed loads on ebay at super cheap prices. The older types were there but not many and similar prices for a fan that has done more work, I may still get one to experiment at a later date.

I was thinking about hooziewhatsit's controller and my concern about electronics in off road vehicles, and remembered I carry a spare VC fan any way!

So what the heck, I have contacted hooziewhatsit via his company web page, it seems his controller may work with (or part of it) my present dashboard indicators. I sent an e-mail throwing in one or two questions with regards to one or two adaptations or add ons.

I will see what he comes up with.

Get back to you.

Regards

Dave

Good to hear!
I'd expect you to be able to find those fans over there.

Hopefully, the controller will work with your sending unit and you'll be good to go.

Yes plenty in Spain but car parts new and second hand are expensive, IIRC this one us coming from Lithuania?

Cheaper and they are not ripping me off with the postage.

I will go with whatever sensor is advised by hooziewhatsit, and happy to drill and fit if need be, but I cannot change my dashboard indicators.

With the scarcity of 'proper' MK 8 fan motors, I need to modernise my setup, and the Mercedes fan looks like it might work...fingers crossed.

Regards

Dave

If you want to use one of the preset temperature ranges, you'll need to use either the autometer 2258 (1/8" NPT), or the GM sensor (3/8" NPT). I prefer the GM sensor since it has it's own ground back to the controller.

Otherwise, most any sensor should work, you'll just have to program it yourself with the turn on and high temperature points.

It's your design my friend so I will follow your advice and order the GM sensor from you if you stock them?

I expect the fan to arrive tomorrow sometime, can I wire it temporarily just to check it works ok?

Any thoughts on getting the one 12v LED working on my dashboard?

I have reviewed my present wiring and reckon I just need a simple driver circuit that gets a signal from your controller to trigger 12v, I need some techie help here though.

The other LED will get its feed from the trinary switch, indicating fan high speed on via demand from AC.
.

Regards

Dave

@hooziewhatsit

OK I have had my head down researching 'stuff', I joined an electronics forum to see if someone could supply me a diagram that would allow your controller to trigger my dashboard LED's.

A couple of options have been posted up, the latest seems to be the way to go but would ask you to have a look at it. I did ask the person if he was ok with me copying it to you and he is fine with that, unfortunately I do not seem to have the option to upload a picture or file?

So here is the link, there are a couple of questions posed by the poster such as 5v supply or 12v, and the green LED coming on at >20%.


https://www.electronicspoint.com/threads/can-you-make-my-12v-led-light-up.286248/#post-1749409

Your thoughts please Dave?


Regards

Dave

That all looks mostly good.

For driving the dash LED, there's a resister inside the controller, so it can directly drive a single green or red LED. But, that only blinks a code when it turns on/off, or goes steady at full speed.

It should also work to tap directly into the speed signal. A couple things though: there is always a PWM present (25%+ when the fan is moving), and whenever the fan has power there may be 12+V present (some fans do, some don't). If you monitored the speed signal for your fan on and high speed LEDs, that might work pretty well.

Thanks for following me with this Dave, your time is appreciated.

The blinking LED at start up/shut down/full speed is not for me, so that's put to bed.

So, we need the extra module built to match the diagram from Alec and this be driven off the speed signal, unsure if this will be a problem as he thinks a PWM of >20% will bring the LED on.

I am unsure what you mean about there always being a 25% PWM when the fan is moving? Are we talking about when the fan is being blown round by air forced through the rad when the vehicle is in motion?

When you say there may be 12v present, is that on the PWM signal?

Excuse my ignorance with this Dave, BTW the fan did not arrive yet but would still like to be able test it when it does, would that be possible?

Regards

Dave

When the fan is commanded off, there is a 10% PWM value present (if this pwm goes away, then the fan fail-safes to full speed).

When the fan is commanded to run, on mine it will have a minimum pwm of 25%. If the fan is moving from air through it, that has no effect on the PWM value.

You can test the fan by putting 12v on the Trigger input. That should make it go to full speed after a few second delay.

honestly I wouldn't test it till you get the controler, unless it is the one that doesn't need it.

Something must be giving up the ghost in the ones that need it, and why risk the damage since you know that it will eat itself after 2 min or less.

I used the Becool dual 13 fan set, and two c6 pwm controllers, then controlled by a holley hp ecu.

I am sure Trendz on here could advise other ways to control.

just another idea for you, Mark

OK a little confused.....not hard for me.

@hooziewhatsit The 10% PWM makes sense to keep the fan off, this bodes well for the LED on ny dashboard, The circuit design by Alec shows it coming on when there is >20% PWM, so that sorts that.

@Andrewh Re testing, this is where I am a tad confused. If the PWM of 10% is missing then testing without the signal should be sufficient to spin up the fan? I have read that this could happen and one instance where the fan worked for a couple of days, I just want to run it up to speed, check it fits my car, and start the install.

@lockjaw-express Nice neat install, many years back I had similar fans on my V12 Jaguar Coupe, back then they did not move enough air but, by removing parts of the plastic grill behind them airflow was increased, the grill apart from supporting the motor is also a safety feature to stop silly people putting their fingers in there, I cannot remember how many we took out, perhaps every second or third 'rung'?

Airflow was definitively increased, further mods to increase the motor horepower meant changing the fans to something more powerful. No big deal if you are sorted noe but worth noting in the future if the need for more cooling arises.

Regards

Dave

it will spin up the fan. BUT early on some let the smoke out after only 2 min.
I don't know if anyone figured out what died in those fans but I am a firm believer in not trying run something if you don't know why it smoked.

I am just saying you could cause damage that shortens its life even if you don't kill it just by running it for a few seconds.