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Re: Total cost of a 5.7 Hemi Swap into a B body?
[Re: JRs_Charger]
#719270
06/10/10 04:33 PM
06/10/10 04:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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"And I also understand that the 440 can be built to easily outperform the 5.7, (in a straight line acceleration contest, atleast) however, there's no way even the best built 440 can touch the drivablity, reliability, efficiency, and performance of the new stuff. To get a 440 to the same 350 net hp number, I'd have a lumpy idle, an engine that would foul plugs quite frequently, and something that would get 9 mpg. And require constant tuning/tinkering."
The 5.7 is not going to get you the same mpg numbers in a carbed format. I got 12mpg w/ a Supercharged 440 doing 70mph w/ 3.91's so I'm sure with less gear or a 4 speed 17 is doable. You can always go w/ a gear venders O/D or a 4 speed w/ O/D. I'd think with a nice street roller cam and good roller rockers the thing should last as long as you do. I had my old 69 weighed w/ me (175 at the time) and 1/2 tank of gas and it was 3850. AC car w/o ac stuff. I think the 70 is hevier because it has an extra 5 inches on the nose. I'm looking at it from a cost standpoint. Of course you can make anything run and drive how you like as long as you have deep pockets. I think $ for $ you'd be better off with a BB. A 440 short block is about 400lbs. And that's with heavy TRW pistons and stock LY rods. As for your glass hood, I just ordered mine from USBODY.com. They have a good selection check them out. If I were to do anything to your car it'd be adding an extra pedal and a pistol grip to the interior.
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Re: Total cost of a 5.7 Hemi Swap into a B body?
[Re: JRs_Charger]
#719271
06/10/10 04:51 PM
06/10/10 04:51 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 180
Groton, MA
nebo
member
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member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 180
Groton, MA
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I have been very slowly working on this swap into a 71 cuda over the last few years. I am using a 5 speed standard tranny in the swap so I cannot comment on the automatic transmission. You can get motor mounts and an oil pan that will allow you to drop the 5.7 right into the b or e body, that is the easy part. If you are electronically inclined the stock harness from the 5.7 can be modified. I suggest you get the 5.7 from a charger rather than a truck it has a neater accessories layout and a nicer intake setup. I am also using the 6.1 factory exhaust manifolds that I bought on eBay. I bought my 5.7 from a junk yard a few years ago before the 6.1s were out, it came from a Charger and had about 30K miles on it, I paid $500 for it, used www.car-part.com to locate it. The big money is going to come with the ignition and computer to run the motor, AEM and FAST have turn key solutions for the 3rd gen hemi. I hear MegaSquirt has the 3rd gen hemi tone wheel figured out now so maybe you can go that root, figure $500 bucks for megasquirt DIY solution and $2200+ for FAST or AEM. The other big expense is the fuel pump and tank for the FI, depends on how much fabing you want to do or adapting fuel pumps from junk yard donors otherwise turn key is going to be $600+. There are a lot of nickle and dime things that will add up but if you keep your eye out on eBay and other places and scrounge the junk yards you can do a 5.7 swap for a reasonable price. When you put the 5.7 up next to the 440 and I have both in my garage next to each other, the difference in technology will be obvious, precision light weight casting, O ringed seals, tubular exhaust manifolds, FI setup etc. I encourage you to go the restomod route and plant a 3rd gen hemi in your ride.
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Re: Total cost of a 5.7 Hemi Swap into a B body?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#719272
06/10/10 04:54 PM
06/10/10 04:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
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Yuck, could you please quit telling people to stop modifying their cars? I understand that you may be afraid of technology, change, or whatever. However, these people bought their cars and can do whatever they like with them. Here's an excerpt from Popular Hot Rodding's article on a carbed 5.7 Hemi: Quote:
With he totally stock engine running through a set of headers and the XV intake, carb, and ignition, we were shocked by just how docile and smooth the engine sounded and ran. With the OEM cam, the stock idle was in sharp contrast to the formidable power we found. Peak power came in at 371 hp at 5,800-5,900 rpm, while peak torque was recorded at 366 lb-ft at 4,800 rpm. It just goes to show the power potential in those new Hemi heads; these kinds of numbers would require a fairly well-built oldstyle 360, with a fair bit of cam chop to get there.
So what are a mild performance cam and the corresponding calibration worth in an otherwise all-stock 5.7 Hemi?
Stout numbers they were, with peak horsepower now surging to 438 hp at 6,700 rpm, and peak torque recorded at 390 lb-ft at 5,200 rpm. The cam and spring change alone were worth a gain of 67 peak horsepower, and extended the useable rpm range by 900 rpm.
Unless you are building for a tow truck, there is little reason not to recommend the upgraded cam combination.
The 440 engines go a long way based on displacement. In the long run, they're dinosaurs. The heads can't touch a modern engine. The moving parts are insanely heavy. Designing these engines involved lots of brute force.
A decent 5.7 Hemi will run with a mild 440. Run the new Hemi to a similar displacement and it'll put a hurting on the old Wedge.
Yes, you can stroke a 440 to end up with eight bazillion cubic inches and 12 trillion horsepower but that's not the exercise here.
The 440 was a decent motor for it's time. There lies the catch. For it's time. Technology marches on.
There's no reason to not put a 5.7 in his Charger if that's what he wants to do. If properly set up it should outlive his car and provide good power while returning better economy than a 440 ever could.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: Total cost of a 5.7 Hemi Swap into a B body?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#719274
06/10/10 06:17 PM
06/10/10 06:17 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
gdonovan
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
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Quote:
Did you read?? he wants to CARB the motor and not run EFI.
Not true, he did state he wanted EFI. I suggested a carb to save money.
I would suggest trying to get the 440 to run correct before making the leap to a 5.7.
With a well tuned single 4bbl and proper cam selection there is no reason the 440 can't get in the teens for mpg and run 12's all day.
Been there and done that.
There is no shortage of modern tech for a 440 (heads, cams, pistons, rods, intakes, etc) a 5.7 isn't a magic bullet. It just has the advantage of being sorted out in an EFI configuration already.
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Re: Total cost of a 5.7 Hemi Swap into a B body?
[Re: gdonovan]
#719275
06/10/10 11:56 PM
06/10/10 11:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
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I'll agree that the 5.7 isn't a magic bullet. If you're going to build a mild 440 then the 5.7 can give you the same power and better efficiency.
Yes, there are more "modern" heads for the B/RB engines but they still rely on the 50+ year old architecture. You still have a 77 pound crankshaft spinning in the block.
If he wants to go 5.7, let him. I posted a carbed combo and the magazine article had prices on everything they used. You can go injected too. It all depends on how much you want to spend and how much time you're willing to devote to tuning.
I spent a little money going EFI on the hot rod and I'm glad I did.
The only thing stopping me from dropping a new Hemi under my turbos is the fact that I've spent so much time and money building the 440 and have yet to max out the combo.
The stock 5.7 heads will out flow my B/RB Edelbrock RPM heads. There is some serious power potential lurking in there.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: Total cost of a 5.7 Hemi Swap into a B body?
[Re: feets]
#719276
06/11/10 05:49 AM
06/11/10 05:49 AM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
gdonovan
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
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Quote:
If he wants to go 5.7, let him.
I just questioned his reasons, many people have built 440's that got good mpg and were fast.
If he wants an EFI 5.7 for the sake of having one that is all well and good, nothing is to be further said.
Quote:
I spent a little money going EFI on the hot rod and I'm glad I did.
My next on will be EFI for a number of reasons... new garage first though!
Quote:
The stock 5.7 heads will out flow my B/RB Edelbrock RPM heads. There is some serious power potential lurking in there.
While this is technically true the 440 block, rods, crank and pistons are all stronger.
I know people who build turbo 5.7 hemis, there is a point that shows up in a hurry where you have to start throwing pistons and rods away.
The heads might flow but everything else is parts geared toward low emissions/saving costs.
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Re: Total cost of a 5.7 Hemi Swap into a B body?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#719278
06/11/10 11:07 AM
06/11/10 11:07 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
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The bellhousing pattern is the same as an LA engine. Flywheels and flexplates are available to fit the crank flange differences.
I certainly hope installing a 727 or 904 doesn't mean you hacking the floor out of your car.
There are also TKO bellhousings available.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: Total cost of a 5.7 Hemi Swap into a B body?
[Re: feets]
#719279
06/11/10 11:14 AM
06/11/10 11:14 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
The bellhousing pattern is the same as an LA engine. Flywheels and flexplates are available to fit the crank flange differences.
so does that mean one could use a old school 727 w/ a gearvenders OD? Thinking ahead I'd like to build a street rod down the road.
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Re: Total cost of a 5.7 Hemi Swap into a B body?
[Re: feets]
#719280
06/11/10 11:19 AM
06/11/10 11:19 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,678
Fresno, CA
Jim_Lusk
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,678
Fresno, CA
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The cheapest way to do this is with a complete wrecked vehicle to pull parts from and use ALL the original parts (computer, wiring, etc.). The dash will get tricky, but this isn't insurmountable.
While not the same, we did a 5.2 Magnum swap into an 84 Ramcharger. We started with a wrecked 96 Dakota and swapped EVERYTHING, modified the fuel tank, and used a 92 Ram instrument cluster. The cost of the swap, our labor. We were able to sell off parts from the Dakota to cover the parts cost.
I would consider any of these swaps into older cars, but I think I'd look at the welded aluminum tanks and see if those companies offer one for fuel injection, especially one that will accept the factory pump assembly.
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Re: Total cost of a 5.7 Hemi Swap into a B body?
[Re: DusterKrazy]
#719281
06/11/10 11:34 AM
06/11/10 11:34 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
Fury Fan
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
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Quote:
I must be missing something here...
You must mean getting you're current 440 to 350 net hp?? The 68-70 440's were 375 hp. The 440 six pack's were 390hp and I think 490 foot pounds of torque.
Keep in mind, 71-older engines are rated SAE gross, while 72-newer ones are SAE net. I read somewhere years ago to multiply net figures by 1.5 if cat-converter equipped (and 1.25 if not) to approximate a gross hp. With modern high-flow cats that may no longer be a good estimate, though.
Theoretically, a 345hp 5.7 Hemi will make more power than a 375hp 440.
But:
The new Hemi also has a better chance of making more area under the curve by virtue of EFI and computer-controlled ignition timing.
And the 200+ lbs saved between 5.7 and RB bears some further  . That's more speed AND better MPG, braking and handling. 
Parts I seek:
driver doorpanel, 65 Sport Fury, prefer black, needs to be 7-8 on 10 scale, might buy set
16" x 6" Dodge truck wheel(s), from early 70s?, takes 9" dogdish - need for a research job so cheaper is better.
69-73 C-body caliper brackets and/or splashields
Send a PM.
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Re: Total cost of a 5.7 Hemi Swap into a B body?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#719282
06/11/10 11:56 AM
06/11/10 11:56 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
Fury Fan
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
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Quote:
feets I'm not telling him what do do, he asked for advice, I'm not the only one who has said stay w/ the 440. ...
If somebody wants to do the swap then do the swap don't come on and ask for advice.
Yeah, Yuck, but you were the first person to tell him to stay 440.  And so if somebody wants to do something 'new' they are not permitted to consult with us along the way? How about 'ask for info on new technology and the old-school guys shall use their ears instead of their mouths'? 
He didn't come on for advice on which direction to go, he asked for further advice about the path he's interested in. He also mentioned helping a friend do a conversion in a street rod, so the guy's doing his research and formulating a plan. I applaud him! 
Parts I seek:
driver doorpanel, 65 Sport Fury, prefer black, needs to be 7-8 on 10 scale, might buy set
16" x 6" Dodge truck wheel(s), from early 70s?, takes 9" dogdish - need for a research job so cheaper is better.
69-73 C-body caliper brackets and/or splashields
Send a PM.
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Re: Total cost of a 5.7 Hemi Swap into a B body?
[Re: Fury Fan]
#719283
06/11/10 11:59 AM
06/11/10 11:59 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,179
Atco NJ
DJVCuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,179
Atco NJ
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Re: Total cost of a 5.7 Hemi Swap into a B body?
[Re: JRs_Charger]
#719284
08/18/13 11:24 PM
08/18/13 11:24 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 699
Cooperstown, NY
jrlegacy23
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 699
Cooperstown, NY
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I know this is a bit old and times have changed a bit. I got my wiring harness and computer from www.hotwireauto.com for my A-body 5.7 Hemi swap. They have the wiring harness to run the complete factory fuel injection for $995 for an auto and $950 for a manual trans. I also picked up a used computer all programmed for a 545RFE Auto for $300 (they have new for $700)
[color:"#00FF00"]68 Fastback Barracuda with some stuff[/color]
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Re: Total cost of a 5.7 Hemi Swap into a B body?
[Re: jrlegacy23]
#719285
08/19/13 01:03 AM
08/19/13 01:03 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,437
Omaha Nebraska
Brian_wo
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,437
Omaha Nebraska
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Chris at hotwire is the man when it comes to wiring these swaps.
who is that guy?
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Re: Total cost of a 5.7 Hemi Swap into a B body?
[Re: jrlegacy23]
#719287
08/19/13 02:14 PM
08/19/13 02:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,437
Omaha Nebraska
Brian_wo
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,437
Omaha Nebraska
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S&P is a joke,they are in the same town as hotwire and used them,they had a falling out and now S&P has to build their own harness,I knew of a Dakota that was there for around a year waiting on a harness! Quote:
Quote:
Chris at hotwire is the man when it comes to wiring these swaps.
That's exactly who helped me out. Chris Squiers answered every email I sent and new his shyt. Unlike his competitors.
S&P's answer was "I will send you a DVD on the install with all the info you need." I am sure it would have been a good video, if they sent it. I couldn't even get a response when I asked if they sent the video.
Mancini racings customer service is like a Geni in a bottle, you can keep rubbing but your never gonna get a response.
who is that guy?
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