We went to the quarter mile dragstrp last month, and I got outran by the freakin tow vehicle that pulled me down there......


Anyway, the car is a 70 Charger RT, and the specs on my freshly built engine are 440 .030 over. Flat top speed pro 9-1 compression pistons, stock forged crank and rods, Comp cams XE268 cam, iron sixpack intake and carbs professionally rebuilt, 727 auto with mancini 2200 stall converter, 3.23 rear gears, electric fan, aluminum radiator, full interior, MSD 6A box, stock suspension, etc.. The fuel pump is definatley too small, I've got a 10 psi autozone fuel pump that's starving the car for gas I'm sure. Seems like after 50 feet its out of fuel.

We didn't degree the camshaft when we assembled it, just lined up the dots. I still havent put a timing light on the engine either. Just got it close enough by ear. The only really tuned part on the engine are the carbs I suppose. They were rebuilt by a professional Pro Stock driver/mechanic.

It feels like there is potential here. I lined up with a 400 hp Supercharged 06 Mustang GT, and had him the first 100 feet til the bottom just fell out of my car. Also, it seems to bog and cut out if you put it under a load while crusing like the valves are rattling. Similar to running too low octane gasoline.

My car is running all kinds of stupid, and it's really embarrasing to have a car look so good and run so bad. How should this car be running? What kind of times? It never saw better than a 16.50 this time.

What do I need to do? Also, what is QUIET high po fuel pump? I've had a holley blue, and while it was more than strong enough, the constant whining on a car I mainly drive on the street is very annoying.

To quote Martin Larwence here, "What the problem is?"

You could probably get by with a good Holley mechanical pump. Clay Smith makes a HP pump but I think it takes some grinding to make it fit. Get your timing set. 18 initial 36 total is a good place to start.

how do you set the inital and the total without reworking the distributor?

are you a mechanic, part of mechan 9 ? do you serve layton? are you group 12?

cloes enough by ear? is the vacuum can dialed in ?

anyways. this is a familiar scene. someone throws big money at their favorite car....i suggest building a beater 318 car type, and figure out, what, does , what? that way your not scratching paint, on your beauty. no boring , just rering it yourself. let it burn a quart of oil if the bores are out of round. at least you took apart the engine, rebuilt the carb, played with distributors curves. you will have fun. it will be cheap. the lnowledge gained will be priceless.

or not, i dont know

i rememeber a ad stating 13.50 with the 4.10 trak pac / six pac.

how much fuel psi can the seats take? 6-7 , before they flow at bad times.

why race if it isnt tuned up ? you will have piston holes before you know it, and end up with a pretty box of rocks.

is your fuel line capable of filling a 1 gallon bucket in the required time?

my beater 4dr abody runs 14.8 with a 323 4 speed and 4.10's.

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how do you set the inital and the total without reworking the distributor?

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What I did on my drag car with a 360 was get some timing tape from MP and install it on the damper. I disconnected the vacume advance and plugged the vacume line. I started the car and held the RPM's steady at 3500 or so. THe MP dist had total advance in by 3000 RPM so you have to hold the throttle above that. Using a timing light, I turned the dist. until it read 34 degrees. Small blocks like 32-34 and big blocks like 36-38 I think. I didn't worry about what the initial timing was. Some factory dist have the capability to advance the timing a lot more than a MP unit. In this case the initial timing could be too high. You would have to mix and match parts inside the dist to limit the mechanical advance.

you should be able to run 11's w/ a 10psi fuel pump. I have had freinds run 6 pack cars to 11.70-11.80 w/ 5/16 line and Carter street strip pumps. You have major tuning issues. You also have low compression. Those speed pros AT BEST are 9:1 I'd bet you are probably closer to 8.5:1 especailly if you are running Fel-Pro head gaskets. You should probably get a good timing light with a advance and curve you distrib. Have full advance come in at 2200rpm and start at 36* total. I'd bet w/ that compression 38* would probably work better.
I love the looks of a 6-pack and they can run like heck but they are tricky to tune (for regular 4bbl guys like me) If it dies from a dead stomp to rhomp I'm guessing it's going dead lean. Good luck.
P.S. Dump the vacuum advance.

Actually that outfit that makes those small super duper high flow horizontal piston fuel pumps FINALLY makes them for mopars now. They are about the same price as a clay smith. Don't get a holley mechanical pump. They are junk. If you are going to go with a normal style higher output mechanical pump go with a carter.

My chrome holley mechanical hv pump has been serving me well for 4 years. So I don't know what's "junk" about them. Never ran out of fuel with it at WOT. 10psi of fuel pressure is too much for a carb. That much fuel pressure may overwhelm a needle and seat in a carb, flooding the poop out of it. My mech holley is supposed to be a 7.5psi pump, and my thermoquad likes it just fine.

First thing's first. Like was suggested, your distributor is an issue. #1 you want your distributor recurved. Stock distributor's usually have too much advance and they take too long to get all the advance to come in. Contact a place like FBO and have them recurve your distributor for you or sell you one curved to your needs. Other option is to buy an adjustable one and do it yourself.

#2 is your carbs. Professionally rebuild doesn't mean jack squat when it comes to how well they are tuned. Sure the rebuilder could have done a very nice job of rebuilding the carbs, but it's still your job to tune them, and 6-pack carbs are notoriously difficult to tune. I would either take it to a chassis dyno and have the guy there tune the car or invest in a wideband o2 setup and tune it myself. You need to have some way of knowing what's going on there.

You have a mild 440, a mild cam and mild gears in a heavy car. Expect performance to reflect that. That said, you should still be doing a heck of a lot better than 16's. I'd think more like low-mid 14's maybe touching 13's on a very very good run?

You have discovered the difference between knowledge and effort an interest and cash. You got some of the rigth stuff, but it''s not working together. I've run mid 12s on stock mechanicals pushing maybe 6psi and sucking thru 5/16 line. So you could have a bunch of things. The car should be pretty easy mid 13s on the above average side. I think you need to either find someone to mentor you or work on it properly, or learn by going slowly and getting each thing to be "right". Judging by the "recurve without changing anything" question, I'd say you need a mentor or a good performance mechanic. There's just too many thigns it could be with what you've given. Get a cylinder pressure gage, a vacuum gage, and a PC near the car, and we can help diagnose it over the net.

This whole tuning thing is really not my cup of tea. I'm ASE certified in collision repair, but this is my first attempt at this.

I should have a bigger fuel pump here this week. I know it's running out of fuel. The fuel line is 3/8s all the way. The distributor is indeed a stock rebuild. I've never timed it, just run it close enough.

The bog under acceleration while crusing, does that sound like timing? It rattles like low octane gas, but it's running 93 octane. It used to run fine on 93 before the resto.

I'd like to think the compression is good, the engine prolly has 2000 miles since rebult in November, and that was the first trip to the drags.

So I need to find a good tuner.....

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I've got a 10 psi autozone fuel pump that's starving the car for gas I'm sure. Seems like after 50 feet its out of fuel.

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Actually, you're probably flooding the engine if you have 10psi going to a Holley carb. It needs to be regulated down to 7-7.5 maximum, otherwise you are blowing right past the needle and seat.
Secondly, you need a good advance timing light to set the total at 36 degrees. If you don't know how to do it, then find some guys at the dragstrip that will assist.
I bet just doing these two things will wake it up. Don't spend any other money until these two things are set properly or you are wasting time and money.

1. DEGREE IN the CAMSHAFT! I can't tell you how many times I've seen a poor running car where they "lined up the dots". Beg, borrow, or steal a degree kit and degree in the cam.

2. Make sure the distributor weights/springs are functioning properly. Disassemble the distributor and clean/grease the weights and at a minimum install Mr. Gasket part # 925B lightweight Mopar distributor springs. That'll get you in the ballpark.

3. Set the timing with a timing light and with the vacuum advance unplugged. Honestly, I never run vacuum advance anyway. With a 440 the gains in mileage are negligible with it hooked up. Set it at 34-36 total. I've found my 9.5:1 440 liked 36 total.

My similar un-trick combo would run 13.5's @ 104 so there should be no reason for you not to.

I think fuel delivery is the least of your problems but a Carter Street/strip pump at 7psi should do fine. Cheap, rebuildable, and works great up to 11 seconds.

I actually have a fuel pressure regulator installed that's left over from having the old holley blue. It's set on 7.5-8 right now, and I notice when it's just sitting still idling in park, I can rev the engine, and the guage will drop down to 4 or 5 psi. The needle never goes past 8psi. The 9-10 psi rating on the autozone fuel pump is highly optimistic I assume.

drive it and see how it does. Could you have a clogged fuel filter?

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#2 is your carbs. Professionally rebuild doesn't mean jack squat when it comes to how well they are tuned.

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Unless your carb builder installed the carbs on your car and then tuned them while the car was running, your carbs are not tuned.

Simply put and without a doubt, your car should never and I mean never run 16.50s. Falling out of a tree it would run faster than that. Your problem lies in the timing and/or the carburators. Degreeing in your camshaft will not turn your car from 16.50 to high 14, or 13 or 12. Lining up the marks should be ok. You spend your time having someone work on the above and you will get into the low 14s I would think minimum. If you were having fuel delivery problems with the fuel pump you would probably feel it fall off and the front end dip because of fuel starvation. Remember, carbs (including vacuum issues) and distributor.

How much did you pay for this autozone pump? Thats alot of pressure. Whats the volume on it rated at? Thats probably more important.

Bog at WOT can mean too much or not enough timing. Too much timing though doesn't really bog, its more like a feeling of holding the engine back. It could be pinging due to too much timing. Does it start easily?

Also who did your valve job on the heads? A poor valve job will really slow a car down. Are the seats hardened? What are you using for valve springs? Lifters replaced with the cam I assume? And I dont have any experience with regulators, but are you sure that its not the regulator thats malfunctioning?

As you've probably figured out from peoples responses so far TIMING IS IMPORTANT! The overall matching of the parts sounds pretty good though. haha

The fuel pump is a standard Master brand quiet universal replacement pump. The sticker on the pump says 9 psi. The computer said it was 6-7. Surely theres no way this little thing is putting 10 psi.

And aslo, with the fuel pressure regulator, it is sitting at 7-8 psi at idle. When the car was parked int he staging lanes idling, id' rev the engine a couple of times, and watch the pressure drop down to 4 or 5 psi.

All of these components are on a fresh resto. The car has been apart for the last 4 years and has really only been running since November.

The distributor is a stock reman I just bolted in. The vacuum advance is hooked up I believe.

As for the heads, I'm at work right now and gotta go, but i'll relply in a little while........