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Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? [Re: moparmanjames] #712629
06/01/10 08:40 PM
06/01/10 08:40 PM
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Left Coast
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BobR Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I guess I'm confused, I see a lot of bracket cars at the track running stock heads, I see stock eliminator cars running stock heads, and I'm guessing these Stealth heads flow better than stock from what I have read.
Why would they not be race worthy if they flow better than stock both out of the box and ported?
I would think it would depend on what you wanted to do and how fast you want to go. I see no reason why a set these CNC ported Stealth heads wouldn't be fine for a 3500lb bracket car running 10's all day long.




I guess that all depends on how fast you want to go. Mid 10's to me isn't what it used to be. Compare flow numbers of maxxed out Stealths to almost anything Indy makes but especially their top shelf stuff. Now compare this stuff to the better Ford and Chevy heads. I stand by what I said.




So basically you agree that they are fine for a mid 10 second bracket car or slower, yes?
It seems that 10 seconds or slower is what 70% of the people are running at the track, basically most of Pro Bracket along with sportsman/street.

These are race cars too you know.

BTW I have a set of maxxed out Indy SR's that flow around 345 and I love them too.




Can't argue with that. Just realize that with the Stealths there isn't much room for growth and there won't be much resale value.

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? [Re: 440sourcedotcom] #712630
06/01/10 08:42 PM
06/01/10 08:42 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,048
The Great White North
RAMM Offline
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First of all the Victor is not that great of a head. On my SF-1020, 4.375" fixture, 28" of water the victors went a best of 317 or 319 @ .650". I was not all that thrilled-so I cut and cut and cut,,, etc. I managed a peak of 357 cfm after many hours of work @ .700-.750" lift. So this engine went onto our Sf-902 and we struggled to make 720 hp and 652 ft/lbs from 471 cubes on pump fuel. To make a long story short the Victors have left a foul taste in my mouth and without the benefit of 13-1+ compression they would have a hard time cresting 800HP on a realistic dyno. As a matter of fact I have a 512 combo going together right now that will have some Stealth heads on it that flow 284-288 on our bench. It will have a hydro flat tappet cam 9.5 to 1 and I expect 550-570 hp @ 5300rpm. The Stealth heads are what they are! A LOT better than 906/452/346 OEM cast junk (oh and inexpensive). J.Rob


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Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? [Re: RAMM] #712631
06/01/10 08:43 PM
06/01/10 08:43 PM
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Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
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BobR Offline
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Quote:

First of all the Victor is not that great of a head. On my SF-1020, 4.375" fixture, 28" of water the victors went a best of 317 or 319 @ .650". I was not all that thrilled-so I cut and cut and cut,,, etc. I managed a peak of 357 cfm after many hours of work @ .700-.750" lift. So this engine went onto our Sf-902 and we struggled to make 720 hp and 652 ft/lbs from 471 cubes on pump fuel. To make a long story short the Victors have left a foul taste in my mouth and without the benefit of 13-1+ compression they would have a hard time cresting 800HP on a realistic dyno. As a matter of fact I have a 512 combo going together right now that will have some Stealth heads on it that flow 284-288 on our bench. It will have a hydro flat tappet cam 9.5 to 1 and I expect 550-570 hp @ 5300rpm. The Stealth heads are what they are! A LOT better than 906/452/346 OEM cast junk (oh and inexpensive). J.Rob




Great post.

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? [Re: BobR] #712632
06/01/10 08:47 PM
06/01/10 08:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,048
The Great White North
RAMM Offline
super stock
RAMM  Offline
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Posts: 1,048
The Great White North
Quote:

Quote:

First of all the Victor is not that great of a head. On my SF-1020, 4.375" fixture, 28" of water the victors went a best of 317 or 319 @ .650". I was not all that thrilled-so I cut and cut and cut,,, etc. I managed a peak of 357 cfm after many hours of work @ .700-.750" lift. So this engine went onto our Sf-902 and we struggled to make 720 hp and 652 ft/lbs from 471 cubes on pump fuel. To make a long story short the Victors have left a foul taste in my mouth and without the benefit of 13-1+ compression they would have a hard time cresting 800HP on a realistic dyno. As a matter of fact I have a 512 combo going together right now that will have some Stealth heads on it that flow 284-288 on our bench. It will have a hydro flat tappet cam 9.5 to 1 and I expect 550-570 hp @ 5300rpm. The Stealth heads are what they are! A LOT better than 906/452/346 OEM cast junk (oh and inexpensive). J.Rob




Great post.




Are you being facetious Bob?


2009 PHR\EMC Competitor
2010 PHR\EMC Competitor
2011 PHR\EMC Competitor
2012 PHR\EMC Competitor
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Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? [Re: RAMM] #712633
06/01/10 09:01 PM
06/01/10 09:01 PM
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California
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Erik Jones Offline
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We have tested the 440 source head and have good results. Pretty good quality for the money. They will never flow the Big numbers that some people claim they need but are a very good upgarde for the money.

I have developed a pretty good upgrade for these heads if anyone is interested. I applied the Same Technology to these heads as we use on our 383/440 Superstock heads and have had great results!

I will be glad to answer any questions!

Erik Jones
www.jonesenginedevelopment.com
661-942-3364

Last edited by Erik Jones; 06/01/10 09:04 PM.
Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? [Re: 440sourcedotcom] #712634
08/29/11 11:01 PM
08/29/11 11:01 PM
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NotRussia
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2fast4yourBrain Offline
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Quote:



Yes, our Stealth stage II heads are out of design and development and are currently in the pattern/tooling production stage. They may hit the market by the end of the year.





Update???

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? [Re: 2fast4yourBrain] #712635
08/30/11 02:16 AM
08/30/11 02:16 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 741
Carson City, NV
440sourcedotcom Offline
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Quote:

Quote:



Yes, our Stealth stage II heads are out of design and development and are currently in the pattern/tooling production stage. They may hit the market by the end of the year.





Update???




They are currently IN STOCK, however they are so new we have not yet listed them on our website. Look for them to be "officially" for sale in the next couple weeks. Price should be $995/pair, sold BARE only.

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? [Re: 440sourcedotcom] #712636
08/30/11 02:39 AM
08/30/11 02:39 AM
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Las Vegas NV
moparmanjames Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:



Yes, our Stealth stage II heads are out of design and development and are currently in the pattern/tooling production stage. They may hit the market by the end of the year.





Update???




They are currently IN STOCK, however they are so new we have not yet listed them on our website. Look for them to be "officially" for sale in the next couple weeks. Price should be $995/pair, sold BARE only.




I have had trouble with pushrod clearance on these type of heads when using 1.6 ratio rockers or higher, have you guys made any modifications for this or will I still have to clearance the pushrod holes when using higher ratio rockers?
Thanks!

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? [Re: 440sourcedotcom] #712637
08/30/11 02:45 AM
08/30/11 02:45 AM
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Florida STAYcation
dIc dOc Deity ! Offline
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Quote:



They are currently IN STOCK, however they are so new we have not yet listed them on our website. Look for them to be "officially" for sale in the next couple weeks. Price should be $995/pair, sold BARE only.




Who would you recommend for putting a complete package together? .. and at what cost? ...same valve sizes as #1?

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? [Re: dIc dOc Deity !] #712638
08/30/11 09:57 AM
08/30/11 09:57 AM
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Johnstown
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I'm planning to put a set of Stealths on my old 383 that I rebuild last winter. Hoping for about 450 HP.


33 Plymouth Roadster - 383 - 5.90 1/8th 9.58 1/4
68 Dart - 340
66 Belvedere - 400

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Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? [Re: 440sourcedotcom] #712639
08/30/11 10:33 AM
08/30/11 10:33 AM
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Romeo MI
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They are currently IN STOCK, however they are so new we have not yet listed them on our website. Look for them to be "officially" for sale in the next couple weeks. Price should be $995/pair, sold BARE only.




What length valve are you calling out for this new head
so the rockers will work correctly

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #712640
08/30/11 02:57 PM
08/30/11 02:57 PM
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Posts: 741
Carson City, NV
440sourcedotcom Offline
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Our new heads (which will be called "Super Stealth") use a stock length valve. When you get into longer valves, you must raise the valve cover rail by a corresponding length, which also increases the overall exterior height of the head. At that point, it becomes impossible to keep the factory 'look' on the exterior of the casting. Plus, because the bowl area was opened up considerably and port roof was raised as far as possible, we were getting flow numbers that we wanted without feeling we needed to go to longer valves.

On the question of pushrod clearance, the "dog leg" or turn in the intake ports has been almost completely removed in these heads. This requires them to use a .650" offset intake rocker. We chose this offset because it is identical to what the Edelbrock Victor head uses, ensuring there are many rocker arm manufacturers (Harland Sharp) etc, making these. We also carry our own version available on our web site at: http://store.440source.com/650-Offset-Aluminum-Roller-Rockers_shafts-15-Ratio/productinfo/200-1125/

Because of the offset rockers, we had to completely relocate and enlarge the intake pushrod holes. We made the holes as large as we could, and out of all the test engines we used, not a single one had any pushrod clearancing problems. However, (as they say) YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY. You should always do a mockup before final assembly and check for clearancing. Too many factors affect pushrod placement to put an engine together without checking it first. Also, our 1.5 rockers outsell our 1.6's by a factor of at least 10 to 1, so all our test engines were fitted with 1.5 rockers. So using 1.6's would likely increase the chances (if any) that clearancing would be required.

Hope this answers your questions, thanks for your interest. These new heads have been several years in the making. Eventually we hope to have a CNC version available from Jeff.

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? [Re: 440sourcedotcom] #712641
08/30/11 03:03 PM
08/30/11 03:03 PM
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Projected cost of the total package ?

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? [Re: dIc dOc Deity !] #712642
08/30/11 05:12 PM
08/30/11 05:12 PM
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Carson City, NV
440sourcedotcom Offline
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Quote:

Projected cost of the total package ?




There isn't really a specific "package", although we'd be happy to put together a quote for everything you'll need based on your particular situation.

The only components which are "specific" to these heads are eight .650" offset intake rockers. You can buy these complete as a set, or if you already have rockers, you can still use eight of your standard rockers, plus the standard shafts, holddowns, shims, etc. All you need to buy are the eight individual offset arms themselves. One other fact to mention is that because the rockers are moved over so far, eight of the pushrods will be slightly diagonal, which may require a tiny bit of extra length. In almost all the test engines, we were able to use one of our off the shelf pushrods, but you should always use a checking tool to measure correct pushrod length before ordering pushrods, or get our cut to fit pushrod set, so you don't have to worry about getting the wrong length.

Depending on how much power you want to make from the heads, there are several different ways you can go for the valves. The heads do come with a "production" valve job setup for 2.14 valves, but this valve job is really just a starting point. We expect most people at the minimum will want to do a custom competition valve job along with some bowl cleanup and port matching. For this we do sell nice sets of stainless valves which work great. If you're planning on significantly opening up the ports, you'll most likely want to go with a 2.19 or larger valve. Any big block Chrysler length valves will work.

We expect these heads to run with a healthy camshaft, so you'll want to match the springs to your cam based on the cam manufacturers recommendations, and you'll want to go with some premium 10 deg locks and retainers as well.

All the above reasons are why we only sell these heads bare. They are designed as a head to be built as part of a serious performance engine, not a "bolt on" deal, where you do a head swap in a couple hours and are back on the road after lunch.

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? [Re: 440sourcedotcom] #712643
08/30/11 05:22 PM
08/30/11 05:22 PM
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junction city oregon
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viperblue72 Offline
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Brandon,
So these heads will be standard port or max wedge? 75cc chamber, 2.14. 1.81??

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? [Re: 440sourcedotcom] #712644
08/30/11 05:26 PM
08/30/11 05:26 PM
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Las Vegas NV
moparmanjames Offline
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Brandon, I didn't see you guys at the last Mopars at the Strip, will you be there next year?

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? [Re: moparmanjames] #712645
08/30/11 06:29 PM
08/30/11 06:29 PM
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Iowa State fan
kilroy Offline
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Iowa State fan
Have to say the STEALTH 2 actually have me a little excited about a new set of head. No stupid intake spacer cast in, standard gear, 325cfm. COOL!

x2 on the chamber volume and shape

also what about the Intake and Exhaust runners's CC?


1973 Charger, former SE, former auto

I'm not trying to be difficult, it comes naturally....
Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? [Re: kilroy] #712646
08/30/11 07:22 PM
08/30/11 07:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 741
Carson City, NV
440sourcedotcom Offline
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Carson City, NV
We should be at MATS next year. These heads use the same 80cc "closed chamber" design as our standard Stealths, with straight spark plugs. The port window is not max wedge, but it is essentially an enlarged or "port matched" version of a standard port size. Factory spec on port windows is 2.27 x 1.23, and factory heads are usually considerably smaller than this. Our port window size spec is 2.33 x 1.28, although port window size ends up being determined by the size/position of the sand core molds, so they are not accurate to the thousandth by any means.

As far as CFM and port CC's, etc, we are not officially advertising these, because these heads are being sold only as a rough starting point. What your shop does to them, including what size/type of valves used, valve job, level of porting, etc will determine these numbers. We'll see what some cylinder head shops can do and have them advertise their specs and numbers. I'm sure we'll be setting up a partnership with Jeff at Modern for something like this. Once this is setup, we'll publish the numbers and specs he supplies.

Also, these are currently available for purchase. The part number for one bare head is 200-1127, so be sure to order a quantity of two for a set. They are not listed on our web store yet, but they can be ordered over the phone through a salesperson. Cost is $499.95 per head.

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? [Re: BobR] #712647
02/11/12 12:01 AM
02/11/12 12:01 AM
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Pattison Texas
CSK Offline
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Pattison Texas
the stupid stealths flow the same as the old stealth heads out of the box oh super stealth 267 cfm @ .550


1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? [Re: CSK] #712648
02/11/12 04:38 AM
02/11/12 04:38 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 461
Hinterland SE Qld Aust
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SG duster Offline
mopar
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Hinterland SE Qld Aust
I would think 267cfm @ only 550" for a short valve head "out of the box" cyl head is quite resonable. what are that at 700"? and what did you get with a bit of port work? the source says they sell them blank so to do what you like with them. its an open envelope

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