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Re: 3.9 litre swap
[Re: Clair_Davis]
#70947
06/19/08 09:46 AM
06/19/08 09:46 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 833
Marietta, GA
Joatha
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 833
Marietta, GA
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Quote:
I think some Dakotas came with Mopar 2.5's - not 100% sure on that, but I've seen them transplanted from FWD cars as well. It didn't look too tough, like no elephant ears or anything like that. If you got the trans located, it shouldn't be too tough to get the engine mounts sorted out.
Don't the Jeep Liberty's come with 2.4L engines like are in the PT Cruiser and Neons? Seems like that would be a good place to start as well.
Clair
They did come with them. But, I don't think any of the Liberty (nor the Dakota's) had a turbo. And, I'd think that an A-body would need a turbo 4 to make any power at all. Having said that, you got me thinking that you could use a turbo motor and perhaps cherry pick some parts from a Dakota to get what you need to help make it RWD. Combine that with the tranny adapter to put a 904 behind it and it just might be possible. I'd be lost when it comes to making the mounts, though. I do have a friend that runs a machine shop. If I can fashion up the mounts using cardboard, I'm sure he can make them.
I'd think my biggest issues would be getting the belts, hoses, and linkages (throttle, tranny, etc) worked out.
1966 Barracuda
1968 Barracuda convertible
1930 Ford Model A (soon to be hemi equipped)
2006 Dodge 3500 4X4 CTD Quad Cab
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Re: 3.9 litre swap
[Re: Joatha]
#70948
06/19/08 10:44 AM
06/19/08 10:44 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
Clair_Davis
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
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Quote:
...Having said that, you got me thinking that you could use a turbo motor and perhaps cherry pick some parts from a Dakota to get what you need to help make it RWD.
 We have a WINNER!! There was a 2.2 T2 early Dakota on ePay a year or three back, and it looked like the biggest problem that guy had was that the throttle body pointed in to the firewall of the Dakota.
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...Combine that with the tranny adapter to put a 904 behind it and it just might be possible.
A 904 would certainly be one option, and probably the easiest fit in an early A. It might not be that hard to fit a T5 or some other OD trans to take full advantage of the light-throttle, small-displacement scenario.
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...I'd be lost when it comes to making the mounts, though. I do have a friend that runs a machine shop. If I can fashion up the mounts using cardboard, I'm sure he can make them.
The mounts do seem like they'll be a little tricky, but that's mostly because I'm not familiar with how the early Daks handled that. I've only seen one I4 Dak in the salvage yard, and I didn't pay much attention to how the mounts were done that day...
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...I'd think my biggest issues would be getting the belts, hoses, and linkages (throttle, tranny, etc) worked out.
Belts would probably just be the typical belts for the engine package. Hoses would be pretty straight-forward as well I think. Throttle/tranny linkage would be cables pirated from the FWD package, and are pretty easy to adapt. I've got a Magnum V8 throttle cable adapted to my 69 Valiant's EFI setup, and all it really took was a small flat file to tweak the gas pedal mount and some flat metal stock to mount the cable.
I think before I spent a lot of time looking at an old 2.2L, I'd investigate the newer 2.4L engine combo. Newer technology, easy 16V availability, still in production, lots of upgrade parts... The 2.4L in 2002 Jeep Liberty had 150hp and 167lb-ft stock. Not bad for an unboosted engine.
Clair
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Re: 3.9 litre swap
[Re: Clair_Davis]
#70949
06/19/08 11:14 AM
06/19/08 11:14 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Only problem would be mounts and linkage. Because remember, if you install a 2.2/2.5 into a rwd application, if it's a T2 motor, the throttle body will point sideways. So while that would not pose a problem for throttle linkage, you would for sure have to use a kickdown cable.
Motor mount would have to be fully custom. I would make semi-functional templates out of wood first, then copy them in steel. But honestly if you don't have a welder, I don't think it's a good idea. I mean you really want to be able to fab some of this stuff up yourself on the fly. But by all means give it a try, it's something I've always wanted to do. The 2.5's do a little better behind an auto trans than the 2.2's, any extra displacement helps in the bottom end. They don't rev nice and high like the 2.2's do though.
IMO a 2.4 is a better choice. 16v, dohc, 150hp stock. I've seen a few dyno sheets from guys on the turbo boards who've built 2.4's, bolt on a hx/hy 35 turbo off a dodge cummins and lay down 450hp at the crank with a good tune, good intercooler and a smack load of boost!
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Re: 3.9 litre swap
[Re: Clair_Davis]
#70950
06/19/08 12:12 PM
06/19/08 12:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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Quote:
I think before I spent a lot of time looking at an old 2.2L, I'd investigate the newer 2.4L engine combo. Newer technology, easy 16V availability, still in production, lots of upgrade parts... The 2.4L in 2002 Jeep Liberty had 150hp and 167lb-ft stock. Not bad for an unboosted engine.
Clair
...considering my slant 6 is 101hp/199tq stock and it moves my duster pretty good with an A833OD/3.21 rear gear. with the 2.4, I'd jump to a 3.55 or 3.73 rear gear.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: 3.9 litre swap
[Re: Clair_Davis]
#70951
06/19/08 12:43 PM
06/19/08 12:43 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 833
Marietta, GA
Joatha
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 833
Marietta, GA
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Quote:
Quote:
...Combine that with the tranny adapter to put a 904 behind it and it just might be possible.
A 904 would certainly be one option, and probably the easiest fit in an early A. It might not be that hard to fit a T5 or some other OD trans to take full advantage of the light-throttle, small-displacement scenario.
Considering I'd use this for a lot of highway friving, I think OD would be a big advantage. Any recommendations on an OD transmission that would fit easily in a 69 cuda? I really don't want to have to cut anything up to put this combo together. Ideally, I'd put the engine transmission in the car and bolt the 904 (or whatever OD) and then build the motor mounts to fit that set up. Ideally, I wouldn't have to change the driveshaft.
Quote:
Quote:
...I'd think my biggest issues would be getting the belts, hoses, and linkages (throttle, tranny, etc) worked out.
Belts would probably just be the typical belts for the engine package. Hoses would be pretty straight-forward as well I think. Throttle/tranny linkage would be cables pirated from the FWD package, and are pretty easy to adapt. I've got a Magnum V8 throttle cable adapted to my 69 Valiant's EFI setup, and all it really took was a small flat file to tweak the gas pedal mount and some flat metal stock to mount the cable.
Good point on the belts and I can't imagine the throttle linkage would be that bad based on what you sad. Kickdown linkage would just be a Lokar or something like that.
Quote:
I think before I spent a lot of time looking at an old 2.2L, I'd investigate the newer 2.4L engine combo. Newer technology, easy 16V availability, still in production, lots of upgrade parts... The 2.4L in 2002 Jeep Liberty had 150hp and 167lb-ft stock. Not bad for an unboosted engine.
Clair
Well, that's 2 of you that have recommended it. I wonder how hard it would be to add a turbo to it? See below for more questions/comments on the 2.4L.
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Motor mount would have to be fully custom. I would make semi-functional templates out of wood first, then copy them in steel. But honestly if you don't have a welder, I don't think it's a good idea. I mean you really want to be able to fab some of this stuff up yourself on the fly. But by all means give it a try, it's something I've always wanted to do.
I can easily make the wood version. I have all the tools for that (plus the expertise). I don't have a welder right now. But, I do have a friend that has one and I'm sure I could borrow it. Then, there's my other buddy with the machine shop....
Quote:
IMO a 2.4 is a better choice. 16v, dohc, 150hp stock. I've seen a few dyno sheets from guys on the turbo boards who've built 2.4's, bolt on a hx/hy 35 turbo off a dodge cummins and lay down 450hp at the crank with a good tune, good intercooler and a smack load of boost!
OK...that's 2 of you that made this suggestion. I'll definitely take a look at it. My dad lives just a few miles down the road from a junkyard out in rural GA and I bet we could get a rebuildable 2.4L core fairly cheap. I'll check out the cummins option on the turbo. I wonder what the best donor car for such an animal would be?
I don't need 450HP. But I would like to get the car up to 200HP and boost the torque a bit. I know that the 318 was rated around 200HP. I wouldn't need a screamer - just enough to allow me to keep up with Atlanta traffic.
I assume I'd need to get the computer as well? Or would I be better off going aftermarket?
Now, the last thing I need is a fargin job to pay for it. Sheesh!
1966 Barracuda
1968 Barracuda convertible
1930 Ford Model A (soon to be hemi equipped)
2006 Dodge 3500 4X4 CTD Quad Cab
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Re: 3.9 litre swap
[Re: Joatha]
#70952
06/19/08 01:51 PM
06/19/08 01:51 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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2.4's are best had out of stratus/sebring/cirrus/breeze, etc. The cloud cars are littered with them. EFI control would have to be aftermarket if you wanted boost. Costs for everything add up seriously fast. Motor build, efi controller, new fuel system, extra $ if you want to convert to turbo, etc etc etc. Everything adds up very quick. If the $ is tight, you are probably better off building a 318 or 273 if you can find one. Fuel mileage will be down considerably, but would leave your other funds open to converting to an o/d 4sp, redoing your rear-end or whatever else. Plus efi and a custom motor install is a lot of work.
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Re: 3.9 litre swap
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#70953
06/19/08 02:58 PM
06/19/08 02:58 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 833
Marietta, GA
Joatha
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 833
Marietta, GA
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Quote:
2.4's are best had out of stratus/sebring/cirrus/breeze, etc. The cloud cars are littered with them. EFI control would have to be aftermarket if you wanted boost. Costs for everything add up seriously fast. Motor build, efi controller, new fuel system, extra $ if you want to convert to turbo, etc etc etc. Everything adds up very quick. If the $ is tight, you are probably better off building a 318 or 273 if you can find one. Fuel mileage will be down considerably, but would leave your other funds open to converting to an o/d 4sp, redoing your rear-end or whatever else. Plus efi and a custom motor install is a lot of work.
Yeah, you are right. But what fun would that be? 
Once I get a job (and I think I have an offer forthcoming), then I'll be able to afford it. I COULD do it now. But, I want to keep my money in savings until the paychecks start again.
I think if I go the "gas mileage" route in this manner, then I think I'd just get a 2.4L, do quicky rebuild on the motor and transmission, and drop it in there sans turbo. Then, if I need to I can pull it later or add a turbo then. I still have to do a front end rebuild on the cuda and it needs quarters as well (plus paint but that could wait).
Of course, the cheaper/easier route is to just get a Daytona Turbo (or any Shelby vehicle from 84-93) for $2-4K and drive that. I always liked those cars.
Mostly I just have too much time on my hands right now and I like to think about this sort of stuff.
1966 Barracuda
1968 Barracuda convertible
1930 Ford Model A (soon to be hemi equipped)
2006 Dodge 3500 4X4 CTD Quad Cab
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