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Re: Which aluminum heads [Re: Von] #708714
05/29/10 06:36 PM
05/29/10 06:36 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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Manitoba, Canada
Quote:

Im not and have never been a fan of the Source stuff. With the increasing numbers of cracked Source heads, Eddys or the MP 452 heads are the only way Id go. Plus the Eddys/452s flow a little more than the Source heads, un ported.

Basically the hardware with the Source heads is useless with any cam..............not mention my experience with a few of their other parts.




I emailed 440source and they sent me the updated version of the their valve locks/retainers, for free I had to pay a couple dollars for shipping. They do just fine with my lunati 60303 cam. If you want to run any serious cam, you will be replacing the stock hardware with on 440source heads. If you want to run any serious cam, you will also be replacing stock hardware on eddy rpm heads.

As for flow #'s right OOTB, here's an eddy rpm vs 440source flow test done several years back by moparts member fast68plymouth soon after the source heads hit the market. At higher lifts the eddys do flow about 3% better than the source heads and at the very low lifts the source heads flow a hair better.

Quote:

4.375 bore, 28" test pressure, radius plate on intake, no tube on exhaust:

average flow for #5 and #7 cylinder

lift----I/E
.100--63.8/49.0
.200-140.5/104.1
.300-207.8/139.7
.400-239.2/164.6
.450-248.1/172.5
.500-256.1/177.8
.550-261.5/182.6
.600-265.3/188.2
.650-267.3/191.5
.700-267.3/195.8

here is an OOTB E head i tested recently, also the average for a left and right cylinder:

lift----I/E
.100--66.1/50.8
.200-138.3/105.4
.300-203.8/140.5
.400-243.1/163.6
.450-258.0/170.4
.500-265.7/178.6
.550-272.3/185.3
.600-276.5/190.3
.650-276.1/194.6
.700-275.7/197.3




I've read chrisf's issues with the 440source heads before and that is really crazy what happened to his heads. I was on the waiting list for source heads and got mine when they first came out, however they sat on the shelf for years and I'm about to take them off my 440 for a motor rebuild but haven't put much miles on the source heads.

Re: Which aluminum heads [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #708715
05/29/10 08:09 PM
05/29/10 08:09 PM
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PA
Moparzrule Offline
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Are the MP heads open or closed chamber? Mancini doesn't state, it just says 84cc chamber. I assume they are closed chamber.


My
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Re: Which aluminum heads [Re: Moparzrule] #708716
05/30/10 12:59 AM
05/30/10 12:59 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
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Von Offline
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Quote:

Are the MP heads open or closed chamber? Mancini doesn't state, it just says 84cc chamber. I assume they are closed chamber.



'
Yep, they are closed.


72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72. Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
Re: Which aluminum heads [Re: Von] #708717
05/30/10 10:30 PM
05/30/10 10:30 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,630
North Central Florida
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eightlitermopar Offline OP
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North Central Florida
this is exactly why I do alot of thinking before I drop any money for something like this....even if it won't make a huge difference on my mild motors.......

I am really intrigued with the mopar 452 heads. I am also enticed by hughes engines doing a CNC port job on the eddy heads.

I have not found a place that offers that for these mopar 452 heads. If there was, that would seal the deal for me now....

any thoughts or knowledge of a place that does this? I can get the eddy or source heads cnc ported with bigger valves...how about mopar?

eight


Mopar or no car
Re: Which aluminum heads [Re: eightlitermopar] #708718
05/30/10 10:38 PM
05/30/10 10:38 PM
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Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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Oregon
Mancini Racing sells the 452 heads with full CNC porting. Check out this article where I used those heads. This article as well as a bunch of other big block articles are in the tech archives on this board. Or go to Amazon.com and search for Mopar Big Block books. I covered the Mopar 452 head in the book along with a bunch of other stuff.

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techa...lock/index.html

Last edited by AndyF; 05/30/10 10:40 PM.
Re: Which aluminum heads [Re: AndyF] #708719
05/30/10 10:59 PM
05/30/10 10:59 PM
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Posts: 1,630
North Central Florida
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eightlitermopar Offline OP
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Quote:

Mancini Racing sells the 452 heads with full CNC porting. Check out this article where I used those heads. This article as well as a bunch of other big block articles are in the tech archives on this board. Or go to Amazon.com and search for Mopar Big Block books. I covered the Mopar 452 head in the book along with a bunch of other stuff.

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techa...lock/index.html




OK, really stupid question time....I see the stage VI heads with porting....

are these 452 heads and the stage VI the same thing?

I "assumed" they were different, as the 452 heads state they can use all the "stock" parts and don't require adapters and all that stuff.



Mopar or no car
Re: Which aluminum heads [Re: eightlitermopar] #708720
05/31/10 10:25 AM
05/31/10 10:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,947
Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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AndyF  Offline
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Oregon
Stage VI head is totally different. You do not want Stage VI heads.

Did you read the article? It has the part number as well as other information about the heads.

Last edited by AndyF; 05/31/10 10:29 AM.
Re: Which aluminum heads [Re: AndyF] #708721
05/31/10 10:11 PM
05/31/10 10:11 PM
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broncobra Offline
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Hi Andy, The Mopar book "B/RB Engines" Reccomended the Stage VI above all others, esp. street and strip (what they call dual purpose) Any elaboration why? They cite casting quality, Aluminum hardness and airflow. The book states that there is a trade off in horsepower and torque, but their Stage VI is the optimum in torque due to the numbers it flows, at what RMP it flows.

Re: Which aluminum heads [Re: AndyF] #708722
05/31/10 10:38 PM
05/31/10 10:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,630
North Central Florida
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eightlitermopar Offline OP
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Quote:

Stage VI head is totally different. You do not want Stage VI heads.

Did you read the article? It has the part number as well as other information about the heads.




Yes I read the article, very informative and impressive results with these heads.

Being a holiday weekend I did not call mancini, I was just looking at their website on their heads listed here --> http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/aluminumheads2.html

I see the head pn P5153524 for $849.95 However, the only CNC ported aluminum mopar heads I see are the stage 6 and aluminum hemi heads

I was just wondering if they had stopped offering the CNC ported heads for this...or if I am looking in the wrong area? Was it a limited time thing? The article said they sold them, or offered them with the porting done, I just don't see them listed is all.

I could always buy the head and have hughes engines cnc port them (or so I have heard. I am just getting started looking into all of this.)

Anyway, thanks again for the input about these heads. Anymore opinions are definately welcome, I really appreciate it!


eight


Mopar or no car
Re: Which aluminum heads [Re: broncobra] #708723
05/31/10 11:00 PM
05/31/10 11:00 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,178
Someplace you aren't
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SomeCarGuy Offline
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Quote:

Hi Andy, The Mopar book "B/RB Engines" Reccomended the Stage VI above all others, esp. street and strip (what they call dual purpose) Any elaboration why? They cite casting quality, Aluminum hardness and airflow. The book states that there is a trade off in horsepower and torque, but their Stage VI is the optimum in torque due to the numbers it flows, at what RMP it flows.




Mopar will always tell you that their arts are the best. Far from it.

There is really nothing wrong with the Stage 6 heads if done right. just be prepared to spend the dollars to get them correct. That crosses over into a debate as to where the line is on spending money on those heads, or buying another and if you can spend money more wisely on other stuff. Or just pocket the cash.

Any Mopar shop can fix a set of 6's for you if that is what you decide to go with.


I want my fair share
Re: Which aluminum heads [Re: chrisf] #708724
05/31/10 11:44 PM
05/31/10 11:44 PM
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Toronto, Canada
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dirtybee Offline
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Quote:

having had both and still owning 440 source ones i can answer that.

my source heads were the first generation. they needed locks and retainers out of the box as they were poor quality. emailed brandon and never even got a response (you will soon see a pattern here). no biggie.
bolted them on my 383 while i was building my new 383.

pulled them and took them to dodgefarmer (randy) to check out how they were holding up after 5000miles before i bolted them to my new 383. apparently they had huge amounts of porosity around the water jacket areas. Randy fixed them up (again) and was back in business.
emailed brandon again. ignored. send him another, ignored. sent him a final one saying thanks for nothing and the problem was fixed. nothing. He then emails and says he doesnt consider it a problem unless i phone and since the problem was fixed he didnt feel he needed to talk to me. my final email was to brandon sugesting some places he could "store" his parts on his person.

if i was selling a product that was poor quality i would want to know what caused the problem. he obvously knew about the problem or didnt care as they were selling well anyways. ride the train until it falls off the tracks i guess

i have probably around $1600 into these heads right now. I bought them for the sole reason to save a couple dollars. in the long run i could have bought eddies and never had any problems.

i have posted of this issue here before and electrolisis may have been a issue. IF thats the case why didnt my eddy heads do the same thing? cheap castings on the source stuff

thanks brandon i hope my post brings in some business for you









good thing the porosity only showed up around the coolant passages and not in the combustion chamber. maybe you should check your coolant

Re: Which aluminum heads [Re: dirtybee] #708725
06/01/10 02:08 AM
06/01/10 02:08 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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Quote:


good thing the porosity only showed up around the coolant passages and not in the combustion chamber. maybe you should check your coolant




If memory serves, chrisf said 440source gave him some line about coolant ph levels, like anyone ever checks that. Unless you're running pure acid as a coolant this should not be happening.

Re: Which aluminum heads [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #708726
06/01/10 03:04 AM
06/01/10 03:04 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
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Florida STAYcation
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The diff in the Eddy heads .....straight and angled plug ......

Any bennies to the angled ?

Re: Which aluminum heads [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #708727
06/01/10 09:43 AM
06/01/10 09:43 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,545
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick Online content
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Twostick  Online Content
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Downtown Roebuck Ont
Quote:

Quote:


good thing the porosity only showed up around the coolant passages and not in the combustion chamber. maybe you should check your coolant




If memory serves, chrisf said 440source gave him some line about coolant ph levels, like anyone ever checks that. Unless you're running pure acid as a coolant this should not be happening.





Coolant ph is EXACTLY what causes that kind of damage. I see it all the time in big diesels and the ph levels that can do that to cast iron are a long way short of pure acid so it's no surprise that even moderately elevated levels will erode aluminum like that. The fact that nobody ever checks it still doesn't make it 440Source's fault.

Kevin

Re: Which aluminum heads [Re: Twostick] #708728
06/01/10 10:00 AM
06/01/10 10:00 AM
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British Columbia
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chrisf Offline
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ph could have caused this as i was using tap water to mix the antifreeze. (dont anymore) I said these heads had 5000 miles which may be a stretch. probably closer to 3000. so, in that short of time it ate into the heads. thats a junk casting
50,000 miles maybe, not 3000 my eddy heads used the same tap water mix and had zero problems. i even ran straight tap water for a time with the eddies.

wasnt so mad about the problem as happens. I was more mad how i was treated by 440source and the fact that they didnt care.

Re: Which aluminum heads [Re: chrisf] #708729
06/01/10 02:00 PM
06/01/10 02:00 PM
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Posts: 964
Nanaimo, B.C.
GwaiiEagle Offline
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Re: the angled plug Eddy's....

On my 383 I run Heddman 75150 1 3/4" accepts p/s.

It's an issue only on #6. I used a shorty plug and a mesh sock as a cover with no trouble.

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