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It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? #702566 05/19/10 05:42 PM 05/19/10 05:42 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 5,000 Tampa Florida dc426 OP gotta keep'm separated
dc426 OP gotta keep'm separated Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 5,000 Tampa Florida	It's finally all together, in the car and running. It was actually in and fired up last week but I had a rocker adjuster break. So finally UPS dropped off the the ones and I re-fired it up. It sounds good but seems to have unusually high oil pressure. Since the episode of the windage tray piece braking off I have replaced all new bearings, rings, polished the crank, and R&R the heads. The old oil pump used to have 65 LBS hot or cold. The new one has about 75 at idle and seems to go over 100 if you rap it. I got the motor up to 160*. I'm using Rotella 15/40 in it. I'm gonna switch to a straight 30 wt. Any thoughts on this?? I have yet to get the car to the track and really put some heat in it. But, I still think that's a little high though??? DC

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: dc426] #702567 05/19/10 05:44 PM 05/19/10 05:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 32,394 Q Quicktree I Win
Quicktree I Win Q Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 32,394	what kind of pump are you using? talk to Woody, didn't he just go through the same thing all you need is a stock pump.

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: Quicktree] #702568 05/19/10 05:49 PM 05/19/10 05:49 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 5,000 Tampa Florida dc426 OP gotta keep'm separated
dc426 OP gotta keep'm separated Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 5,000 Tampa Florida	Melling high volume pump. Same as what was in there before.

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: dc426] #702569 05/19/10 05:56 PM 05/19/10 05:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 32,394 Q Quicktree I Win
Quicktree I Win Q Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 32,394	Quote: Melling high volume pump. Same as what was in there before. thats probably your problem. these new hv pumps have a lot of pressure.

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: dc426] #702570 05/19/10 05:56 PM 05/19/10 05:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,875 communist bloc of new jersey J jamesc master
jamesc master J Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,875 communist bloc of new jersey	even with a HV pump the relief should open and bleed off pressure back into the pump suction. best guess would be the relief valve hanging up. did you disassemble the pump and clean/inspect it before installaton? when i was a kid i put the cup plug in backwards...150# OP darn near blew the filter apart

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: jamesc] #702571 05/19/10 06:02 PM 05/19/10 06:02 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 5,000 Tampa Florida dc426 OP gotta keep'm separated
dc426 OP gotta keep'm separated Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 5,000 Tampa Florida	I didn't but when I fired it up the other day before the rocker adjuster broke it was pretty much normal. Had 75 constant.

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: dc426] #702572 05/19/10 06:06 PM 05/19/10 06:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 3,667 Arizona C Chris'sBarracuda master
Chris'sBarracuda master C Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 3,667 Arizona	I can't see that oil pressure hurting anything. Seems fine to me. I have an adjustable external deal on my B1, and just for kicks, tried back to back runs with oil pressure 75 and 100+.. There was ZERO difference in ET.. So why stress over nothing.. Chris..

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: Chris'sBarracuda] #702573 05/19/10 06:47 PM 05/19/10 06:47 PM
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,880 USA Ron Silva top fuel
Ron Silva top fuel Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,880 USA	I would never run straight 30 weight. I would go to 5W30 or maybe the 10W30 Valvoline racing oil and if your water temp was 160 that means nothing. The oil temp could still be way lower than that. Drive it for 30 minutes and report back. Last edited by dragrcr97; 05/19/10 06:49 PM. SRT DEMON ONE SEAT

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: Ron Silva] #702574 05/19/10 06:54 PM 05/19/10 06:54 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 5,000 Tampa Florida dc426 OP gotta keep'm separated
dc426 OP gotta keep'm separated Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 5,000 Tampa Florida	Wilco, Thanks guys

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: dc426] #702575 05/19/10 07:00 PM 05/19/10 07:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,923 NC 440Jim I Live Here
440Jim I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,923 NC	Quote: It sounds good but seems to have unusually high oil pressure. The old oil pump used to have 65 LBS hot or cold. The new one has about 75 at idle and seems to go over 100 if you rap it. I'm using Rotella 15/40 in it. I'm gonna switch to a straight 30 wt. Switching to straight 30 wt will make the cold pressure even higher. I would stick with the 15W-40. Put the relief spring from the old pump in the new pump. The new pump spring is likely different. 1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: Ron Silva] #702576 05/19/10 07:01 PM 05/19/10 07:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,875 communist bloc of new jersey J jamesc master
jamesc master J Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,875 communist bloc of new jersey	Quote: I would never run straight 30 weight. agreed, fwiw i believe the shell 15-40 is pretty decent oil. also as mentioned if the oil temp wasn't up is could contribute.

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: jamesc] #702577 05/19/10 07:07 PM 05/19/10 07:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,616 Kissimmee Fl. D dusturbd340W5 master
dusturbd340W5 master D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,616 Kissimmee Fl.	Chris I just went through this myself my HV pump was pushing 80 psi cold at idle and well over 100 and the relief was not sticking as I pulled the pump apart and cleaned it. I ended up putting a standard pump in mine but before I did I put a 5w30 in it and that helped a lot ran it for a few weeks like that before I pulled and replaced the pump. I found out a standard pump will do just fine with a little clean up and it uses less HP to turn. My standard pump with 10w40 engine hot holds 40 psi at idle and almost 80 down track. 70 duster full chassis super pro 416 CNC Indybrock heads 727 w/brake best so far 1.212 60 6.219 in 1/8 at 110.88 9.768 at 137.81 1/4

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: Chris'sBarracuda] #702578 05/19/10 07:26 PM 05/19/10 07:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 32,394 Q Quicktree I Win
Quicktree I Win Q Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 32,394	Quote: I can't see that oil pressure hurting anything. Seems fine to me. I have an adjustable external deal on my B1, and just for kicks, tried back to back runs with oil pressure 75 and 100+.. There was ZERO difference in ET.. So why stress over nothing.. Chris.. well having blown 3 filters apart in 2 weeks at the track during a burn out the guys get pissed in a hurry I bet Myron remembers that. I made changes to the springs every time. ended up with a stock pump and spring to solve the problem. it does matter and dangerous to boot.

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: dc426] #702579 05/19/10 07:49 PM 05/19/10 07:49 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Quote: I didn't but when I fired it up the other day before the rocker adjuster broke it was pretty much normal. Had 75 constant. are you saying you re-used the same pump but didn't take it apart to thoroughly clean and remove any metal that might have been trapped in it? if you did, i guess you know where that metal could end up. please, say it ain't so... Last edited by DRAM_Perf_Only; 05/19/10 07:50 PM.

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: dusturbd340W5] #702580 05/19/10 07:55 PM 05/19/10 07:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,875 communist bloc of new jersey J jamesc master
jamesc master J Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,875 communist bloc of new jersey	if those HV pumps are maintaining that much pressure with the relief open they should change things a little bit. that said i used to be of the opinion that the bigger the oil pump the better. now that i've grown up (somewhat) imho the best oil pump is the smallest one that will maintain the desired pressure. imho i wouldn't install any pump before taking it apart and looking it over. too much chance for metal scrap or what not to be in it.

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: jamesc] #702581 05/19/10 08:09 PM 05/19/10 08:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,616 Kissimmee Fl. D dusturbd340W5 master
dusturbd340W5 master D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,616 Kissimmee Fl.	Quote: if those HV pumps are maintaining that much pressure with the relief open they should change things a little bit. that said i used to be of the opinion that the bigger the oil pump the better. now that i've grown up (somewhat) imho the best oil pump is the smallest one that will maintain the desired pressure. imho i wouldn't install any pump before taking it apart and looking it over. too much chance for metal scrap or what not to be in it. I took the HV off got a standard Melling pump took it apart cleaned it touched it up with a sand paper roll to clean up the flashing and it delivers plenty of oil pressure 70 duster full chassis super pro 416 CNC Indybrock heads 727 w/brake best so far 1.212 60 6.219 in 1/8 at 110.88 9.768 at 137.81 1/4

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: Quicktree] #702582 05/19/10 08:18 PM 05/19/10 08:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 3,667 Arizona C Chris'sBarracuda master
Chris'sBarracuda master C Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 3,667 Arizona	Quote: Quote: I can't see that oil pressure hurting anything. Seems fine to me. I have an adjustable external deal on my B1, and just for kicks, tried back to back runs with oil pressure 75 and 100+.. There was ZERO difference in ET.. So why stress over nothing.. Chris.. well having blown 3 filters apart in 2 weeks at the track during a burn out the guys get pissed in a hurry I bet Myron remembers that. I made changes to the springs every time. ended up with a stock pump and spring to solve the problem. it does matter and dangerous to boot. System 1 Chiris..

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: Chris'sBarracuda] #702583 05/19/10 08:30 PM 05/19/10 08:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 32,394 Q Quicktree I Win
Quicktree I Win Q Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 32,394	Quote: Quote: Quote: I can't see that oil pressure hurting anything. Seems fine to me. I have an adjustable external deal on my B1, and just for kicks, tried back to back runs with oil pressure 75 and 100+.. There was ZERO difference in ET.. So why stress over nothing.. Chris.. well having blown 3 filters apart in 2 weeks at the track during a burn out the guys get pissed in a hurry I bet Myron remembers that. I made changes to the springs every time. ended up with a stock pump and spring to solve the problem. it does matter and dangerous to boot. System 1 Chiris.. thats what we changed to after the 3rd time

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? #702584 05/19/10 08:37 PM 05/19/10 08:37 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 5,000 Tampa Florida dc426 OP gotta keep'm separated
dc426 OP gotta keep'm separated Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 5,000 Tampa Florida	Quote: are you saying you re-used the same pump but didn't take it apart to thoroughly clean and remove any metal that might have been trapped in it? Of course not. I bought a new Melling HV pump.

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: Quicktree] #702585 05/19/10 08:45 PM 05/19/10 08:45 PM
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 5,067 Orlando Florida blown572dart master
blown572dart master Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 5,067 Orlando Florida	Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: I can't see that oil pressure hurting anything. Seems fine to me. I have an adjustable external deal on my B1, and just for kicks, tried back to back runs with oil pressure 75 and 100+.. There was ZERO difference in ET.. So why stress over nothing.. Chris.. well having blown 3 filters apart in 2 weeks at the track during a burn out the guys get pissed in a hurry I bet Myron remembers that. I made changes to the springs every time. ended up with a stock pump and spring to solve the problem. it does matter and dangerous to boot. System 1 Chiris.. thats what we changed to after the 3rd time CH!T Tony even I learned after the second time I run straight 70 and have 200lbs of pressure. Jimmy

Post deleted by Defbob [Re: blown572dart] #702586 05/19/10 08:58 PM 05/19/10 08:58 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? #702587 05/19/10 09:05 PM 05/19/10 09:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,987 Anoka County, MN L Leigh master
Leigh master L Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,987 Anoka County, MN	If it's a smallblock, it's an understatement to simply "pull the pump". The job sucks in a door car, at least in mine. Especially if you just got it final assembled. Good luck with it.

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: Leigh] #702588 05/19/10 09:09 PM 05/19/10 09:09 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 5,000 Tampa Florida dc426 OP gotta keep'm separated
dc426 OP gotta keep'm separated Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 5,000 Tampa Florida	tell me about it

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: dc426] #702589 05/19/10 09:16 PM 05/19/10 09:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,987 Anoka County, MN L Leigh master
Leigh master L Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,987 Anoka County, MN	Yeah, I know. Pull the distributer to allow tilting of the engine to keep pressure off the center link that goes through the pan. Pull the headers before removing the pittman arm and tie rod ends. Of course, this is after removing the front wheels. Then, everything is done on the back, including recentering the 340/360 oil pan spacer. Plus, the pan is so big, there isn't much room between it and the trans. I'll pull the motor next time, all that is left is the converter bolts. Doing it on the engine stand is a H E L L of alot better deal. Like I said, GOOD LUCK

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: Leigh] #702590 05/19/10 09:57 PM 05/19/10 09:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,875 communist bloc of new jersey J jamesc master
jamesc master J Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,875 communist bloc of new jersey	OR you could eat a slice of pizza while you pull the pump off your big block...OK maybe two slices

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: jamesc] #702591 05/19/10 10:42 PM 05/19/10 10:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,987 Anoka County, MN L Leigh master
Leigh master L Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,987 Anoka County, MN	Quote: OR you could eat a slice of pizza while you pull the pump off your big block...OK maybe two slices Isn't that the truth. So easy, even a... Naa, I ain't going there.

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: Leigh] #702592 05/19/10 11:12 PM 05/19/10 11:12 PM
Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 724 PA USA F flatiron super stock
flatiron super stock F Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 724 PA USA	Finally broke in my 360 today with a Melling HV pump and 15w/40 Rotella. 100 lbs of pressure for about 30 mins then it started dropping off. After about 90 mins of run time I'm at 75lbs of oil pressure at 2k RPMS

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: flatiron] #702593 05/20/10 12:54 AM 05/20/10 12:54 AM
Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,532 off the grid 340B5 pro stock
340B5 pro stock Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,532 off the grid	The HV72 I put in my SB put out 80psi in March when I first started it.(45deg) Now after a couple hrs run time and a couple passes it is 62psi@2000 and 45psi at idle (1150 rpm@ 70 deg.) Oil is 10-30 Mobil 1. Yeah, it's got a smallblock.

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: jamesc] #702594 05/20/10 02:12 AM 05/20/10 02:12 AM
Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 30,424 Florida STAYcation dOc ! The village idiot's idiot
dOc ! The village idiot's idiot Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 30,424 Florida STAYcation	Quote: OR you could eat a slice of pizza while you pull the pump off your big block...OK maybe two slices HELL ...you could pull-the-pan in that RE dragster on ONE SLICE. .... SAME goes for my FED that is going together .... but my v-drive boat ?... not-so-much. B U T ...all this heavy-weight oils you are talkin' about ..... on a race-car-only ....why aren't you thinking 0 or 10 weight stuff ?

Post deleted by Defbob [Re: Leigh] #702595 05/20/10 04:48 AM 05/20/10 04:48 AM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? #702596 05/20/10 09:05 AM 05/20/10 09:05 AM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,466 malvern, ohio 3 3ddart pro stock
3ddart pro stock 3 Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,466 malvern, ohio	d.c. i just experienced the same thing with my samll block and got black flagged last weekend when oil squirtted past the oil filter boss gasket. i had gotten the pumps straight from melling with contingency, (also talked to a couple of other mopar racer with this problem) called melling and asked if they changed anything on these pumps and they said they were not aware of any problems, so let's make them aware of it! call them and ask them what going on and maybe they will look into it. tech guy said most likely bypass valve stuck! dave

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: Ron Silva] #702597 05/20/10 09:08 AM 05/20/10 09:08 AM
Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 8,165 Left Coast B BobR master
BobR master B Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 8,165 Left Coast	Quote: I would never run straight 30 weight. I would go to 5W30 or maybe the 10W30 Valvoline racing oil and if your water temp was 160 that means nothing. The oil temp could still be way lower than that. Drive it for 30 minutes and report back. I agree. Why use heavier oil? 15/40 oil is 15 weight oil with hot properties of 40 weight. Straight 30 will result in higher pressure-especially until fully warmed.

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: 3ddart] #702598 05/20/10 09:49 AM 05/20/10 09:49 AM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	so how is it you guys are missing this BEFORE you drop the engine in the car? i always prime engines while on the stand so there's no surprises afterward.

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: BobR] #702599 05/20/10 09:50 AM 05/20/10 09:50 AM
Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 100 Winnipeg, Canada S StrokerDart member
StrokerDart member S Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 100 Winnipeg, Canada	I had the EXACT same "runaway oil pressure" problem last season with a freshened smallbock and new Melling HV pump. First time in all these years that this has happened to me. I replaced it with another HV pump (this time it was a Speed Pro but anyways) and problem solved. BTW, the bad pump did not show any particular problem when I dissassembled it after removal (and I had opened it up/inspected it prior to original install). It had to be the relif valve but I could not prove it to myself so in went he new pump. I feel for ya on the job ahead .... I think in hindsight, pulling the motor back out would have been easier than dropping the pan in the car

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? #702600 05/20/10 09:53 AM 05/20/10 09:53 AM
Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 100 Winnipeg, Canada S StrokerDart member
StrokerDart member S Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 100 Winnipeg, Canada	Quote: so how is it you guys are missing this BEFORE you drop the engine in the car? i always prime engines while on the stand so there's no surprises afterward. In my case I had primed the engine on the stand but with just the drill speed... it looked normal so I got fooled into thinking all was well.

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? #702601 05/20/10 10:09 AM 05/20/10 10:09 AM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: so how is it you guys are missing this BEFORE you drop the engine in the car? i always prime engines while on the stand so there's no surprises afterward. So Dram... what would you expect to see for a pressure while priming and what size drill motor(or what ever you use).... I know on my stuff I usually see 70

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: BobR] #702602 05/20/10 10:10 AM 05/20/10 10:10 AM
Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,177 ill D dennismopar73 top fuel
dennismopar73 top fuel D Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,177 ill	WHAT ???? YOU HAVE THAT BACKWARDS 30 is 30 10w 30 10w 40 5w30 it is a 30 w until the temp starts falling below the 32^ then it stats to act like thinner wieght for easier starts in winter i used to spec out oil for trucking companies desil oil have certain properties to help in sludge/ breakdown additives and soot control

Re: It's in, running ,has too high oil pressure**UPDATE [Re: dennismopar73] #702603 05/20/10 10:55 AM 05/20/10 10:55 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 5,000 Tampa Florida dc426 OP gotta keep'm separated
dc426 OP gotta keep'm separated Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 5,000 Tampa Florida	Thanks for all the input guys. DRAM, First off We primed it on the stand with a gauge attached. It showed 75 LBS. constant with a high torque drill. Don't know what else to expect Last night I drained the Rotella and this morning tried a 5w-30. As the motor warmed up the pressure fell to about 75 at idle and was around 85 at 3500-4000. It looked as if it would continue to fall as the motor got hotter. I had the temp up to 160. Of course that's not necessarily the oil temp but it seems to prove as the motor gets warmer the oil pressure is falling into place. The old oil pump stated at 65 regardless if it was hot or cold. Last edited by dc426; 05/20/10 11:18 AM.

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: Quicktree] #702604 05/20/10 11:23 AM 05/20/10 11:23 AM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,317 State of confusion T Thumperdart I Live Here
Thumperdart I Live Here T Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,317 State of confusion	Quote: Quote: Melling high volume pump. Same as what was in there before. thats probably your problem. these new hv pumps have a lot of pressure. Been using the "high volume" pumps forever big and small blocks w/out issues. Some on here and others I know said they took em apart to find debree in em and the relief to be stuck. I also know that the "high pressure" pumps were shipped in high volume boxes. 72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....

Re: It's in, running ,has too high oil pressure**UPDATE [Re: dc426] #702605 05/20/10 11:44 AM 05/20/10 11:44 AM
Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,177 ill D dennismopar73 top fuel
dennismopar73 top fuel D Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,177 ill	oil filter 101 if you see 85 -100 psi at youre gauge that is about normal race car some motors are restricting the top end ,either in the block or heads?? so you could see increase of pressure that way youre gauge is usauly last in line to see pressure pump does accumulate most of the pressure rest is generated by mains cam bearings? as for filters they are restriction as well the race filter are far less restricted than that of normal cars reason not much filtration inside in other words it allows more oil to thru mmm after idle the filter doesnt filter much oil at all and at speed say above 1500 rpm very little oil actually goes thru that filter the filter cannot accept that flow so it bypasses it altogehter in passing a race filter filters out less particules than a reg filter does but will allow more oil thru it faster rate reg filter will filter more smaller particules thru it but allow less oil thru it does it matter ?? so long as you filter doesnt burst ?? not telling you to run cheap filter not telling you to run the best there is either with alcohol you have to be carefull as some dont like the water condensation

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: dennismopar73] #702606 05/20/10 12:03 PM 05/20/10 12:03 PM
Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 8,165 Left Coast B BobR master
BobR master B Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 8,165 Left Coast	Quote: WHAT ???? YOU HAVE THAT BACKWARDS 30 is 30 10w 30 10w 40 5w30 it is a 30 w until the temp starts falling below the 32^ then it stats to act like thinner wieght for easier starts in winter i used to spec out oil for trucking companies desil oil have certain properties to help in sludge/ breakdown additives and soot control You may want to do a little research before calling someone else wrong. And if you used to "spec" diesel oil why don't know how to spell "diesel". Actually, Multi-weight oils (such as 10W-30) are a new invention made possible by adding polymers to oil At cold temperatures, the polymers are coiled up and allow the oil to flow as their low numbers indicate. As the oil warms up, the polymers begin to unwind into long chains that prevent the oil from thinning as much as it normally would. The result is that at 100 degrees C, the oil has thinned only as much as the higher viscosity number indicates. Another way of looking at multi-vis oils is to think of a 20W-50 as a 20 weight oil that will not thin more than a 50 weight would when hot. Maybe we just aren't looking at this the same way but I absolutely know that in the instance of a 20W-50 oil the base stock IS 20W and the polymer additives give it 50W properties.

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: BobR] #702607 05/20/10 12:24 PM 05/20/10 12:24 PM
Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,177 ill D dennismopar73 top fuel
dennismopar73 top fuel D Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,177 ill	ok we just had three valvoline reps in our store rep meeting some of what you say is almost correct but if say 20 is the starting oil in 20 w 50 no which is ashland oil, makers of several oil some independant oil they cannt say so the makers must be wrong then. heating of oil will make oil pressure seam to get lower here the result , everthing expandes as motor gets warm metal expandes you agree ?? so does rod main clearances cam etc so there is where most of that pressue goes away action reaction thing wounder how 0w 20 works mmm 0 wieght in my race car thatll work this is a good discussion i like it as for research me and my brother spect oil out so it does come from first hand knowlege as for spelling not in school and my typing skills not the best fat fingered and need new keyboard sorry for that i will stay after school and write it on the blackboard 100 x hahaha Last edited by dennismopar73; 05/20/10 12:29 PM.

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #702608 05/20/10 12:29 PM 05/20/10 12:29 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Quote: Quote: so how is it you guys are missing this BEFORE you drop the engine in the car? i always prime engines while on the stand so there's no surprises afterward. So Dram... what would you expect to see for a pressure while priming and what size drill motor(or what ever you use).... I know on my stuff I usually see 70 for a HV pump on a smallblock with a std. spring (not hi pressure) and wider racing type bearing clearances, i normally see 65-70 lbs. while priming with a 1/2 HP 1/2" drill at 2400 rpm, which would be equivilent to 4800 rpm engine speed. as a rule the smaller 3/8 drills are 1/4-1/3 hp and are too weak to turn the pump at full rpm, so the pressure reading could vary quite a bit using one of those.

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? #702609 05/20/10 12:42 PM 05/20/10 12:42 PM
Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,532 off the grid 340B5 pro stock
340B5 pro stock Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,532 off the grid	Dis be whut de espurts say; Polymers expand and contract to both ends of the spec. Wt. @ 70* is somewhere in the middle. At least thats whut they teld me in automotive skool anyhoo. Yeah, it's got a smallblock.

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: dennismopar73] #702610 05/20/10 07:04 PM 05/20/10 07:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 354 Livonia Michigan 440dart enthusiast
440dart enthusiast Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 354 Livonia Michigan	Quote: ok we just had three valvoline reps in our store rep meeting some of what you say is almost correct but if say 20 is the starting oil in 20 w 50 no which is ashland oil, makers of several oil some independant oil they cannt say so the makers must be wrong then. heating of oil will make oil pressure seam to get lower here the result , everthing expandes as motor gets warm metal expandes you agree ?? so does rod main clearances cam etc so there is where most of that pressue goes away action reaction thing wounder how 0w 20 works mmm 0 wieght in my race car thatll work this is a good discussion i like it as for research me and my brother spect oil out so it does come from first hand knowlege as for spelling not in school and my typing skills not the best fat fingered and need new keyboard sorry for that i will stay after school and write it on the blackboard 100 x hahaha If this is true why does a simple oil cooler cause the pressure drop to be considerably less. Last edited by 440dart; 05/20/10 07:06 PM. Yes I live in Michigan, so there is still 1 light on

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: Thumperdart] #702611 05/20/10 09:03 PM 05/20/10 09:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,466 malvern, ohio 3 3ddart pro stock
3ddart pro stock 3 Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,466 malvern, ohio	thumper: that's what i was asking the melling tech, if an hp pump could have made it into a hv box and he said they only have standard and hv models, no high pressure 1s. again i think we need to let them know there is a problem!

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: dc426] #702612 05/20/10 09:54 PM 05/20/10 09:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,840 The Swamp S Sixpak master
Sixpak master S Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,840 The Swamp	Change the pump to a stock one. I've heard of the melling hv pressure issue at least 8 - 10 years ago. Saw something similar on a small block I built in the mid 90's. I would think that strain on the pump over time might harm or shear the oil pump drive, or maybe throw off the distributor timing off.

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: 3ddart] #702613 05/20/10 11:40 PM 05/20/10 11:40 PM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,317 State of confusion T Thumperdart I Live Here
Thumperdart I Live Here T Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,317 State of confusion	Quote: thumper: that's what i was asking the melling tech, if an hp pump could have made it into a hv box and he said they only have standard and hv models, no high pressure 1s. again i think we need to let them know there is a problem! That`s probably true as it`s been a few years ago.........I think. 72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....

Re: It's in, running ,has too high oil pressure**UPDATE [Re: dc426] #702614 05/21/10 01:33 AM 05/21/10 01:33 AM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 3,667 Arizona C Chris'sBarracuda master
Chris'sBarracuda master C Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 3,667 Arizona	Quote: Thanks for all the input guys. DRAM, First off We primed it on the stand with a gauge attached. It showed 75 LBS. constant with a high torque drill. Don't know what else to expect Last night I drained the Rotella and this morning tried a 5w-30. As the motor warmed up the pressure fell to about 75 at idle and was around 85 at 3500-4000. It looked as if it would continue to fall as the motor got hotter. I had the temp up to 160. Of course that's not necessarily the oil temp but it seems to prove as the motor gets warmer the oil pressure is falling into place. The old oil pump stated at 65 regardless if it was hot or cold. I would never pull an engine or the pan because my oil pressure was 5-10 pounds too high.. You can get real old really fast stressing about nothing.. Run it and have fun with it. Stop working on it.. Chris...

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: Sixpak] #702615 05/21/10 10:31 AM 05/21/10 10:31 AM
Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,206 New York polyspheric master
polyspheric master Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,206 New York	You may not see actual spark scatter, but it doesn't help. pump does accumulate most of the pressure rest is generated by mains No true: the pump is only refreshing the leakage from the bearings. It provides only a very small proportion of the actual dynamic pressure, most of it is RPM � viscosity � journal OD. Boffin Emeritus

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: polyspheric] #702616 05/21/10 10:44 AM 05/21/10 10:44 AM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	IMHO, a small hole drilled through from the pump exterior to intersect the relief piston bore just ahead of the piston at full retraction will add to relief volume (and reduce overpressure), it just won't be recirculated. This is probably not true with all pumps, but my subject pump has a .420" relief piston (.138" area), but the relief port is only 11/32" diameter (.093" area), and only bypasses 67% of the possible volume. A single 7/32" hole to the exterior will only open when the piston is fully retracted and will not affect normal operation. This brings the total bypass dump area up to .130", almost the same area as the valve itself. No, I haven't tried it yet. Anyone see anything that's going to bite me? To be honest I think that would work well... I dont foresee any issue because it would only open that port at or right near max open... which in case would help dump the aerated oil

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? DELETED [Re: MR_P_BODY] #702617 05/21/10 11:24 AM 05/21/10 11:24 AM
Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,206 New York polyspheric master
polyspheric master Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,206 New York	Post deleted by polyspheric Boffin Emeritus

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: polyspheric] #702618 05/21/10 11:29 AM 05/21/10 11:29 AM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: Thanks, I was afraid I was tripping over something obvious! My subject pump has the piston just barely sealing the passage at rest, so enlarging the existing hole can only be done to the rear in any event. A diametric increase is not a good idea since it captures the piston from cocking upward under pressure. Some pistons may be possible to just reduce the length to allow it to reach full unmask position (or modify the retainer). Check the spring to make sure it doesn't bottom out 1st, etc. I am assuming this pump you are working with is a in pan pump so you can dump the oil

Re: It's in, running ,has too high oil pressure**UPDATE [Re: dc426] #702619 05/24/10 10:45 PM 05/24/10 10:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,466 malvern, ohio 3 3ddart pro stock
3ddart pro stock 3 Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,466 malvern, ohio	well, having posted here before, thought i'd update my progress, none!!! spent most of today switching out the sb oil pump i put in at the rebuild a month ago, it had over 100 lbs pressure and blew oil past the oilboss gasket onto the headers causing me to be black flagged. this happened above 4500 rpms. at idle it was 80 lbs and the 1 i replaced from last yr was 65lbs going down the track. 1 i put in today did exactly the same as the previous 1, reved it to about 4000 and saw smoke coming off the headers and sure enough it blew past the gasket again! now my ? is could i have done something on assembly to create this problem? pumps both came straight from melling (contingency reward) and block was cleaned with soap water and brake cleaner, honed by machine shop, and recleaned, crank was polished only and motor was reassembled. i have never had any problems like this before and thats why i'm reaching out to those of you in the know. always put some oil in the pump and assembled my motors before this and pressure was 50 to 60 at hot idle and 70 to 80 going down the track. i called melling about the 1st pump and they said they're not aware of any issues with these pumps. i called today but it was after hrs so i'll see what they say tomorrow. but in the meantime any suggestions on something i could have messed up on assembly? as always thanks in advance and thanks tom!! dave

Re: It's in, running ,has too high oil pressure**UPDATE [Re: 3ddart] #702620 05/24/10 11:09 PM 05/24/10 11:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	I really dont think its you... sounds like they have a by-pass spring issue.... you put on 2 different pumps only to have the same issue... I would say that takes you out of the problem... you could cut the by-pass spring down some.... or take the spring out of your old pump(from the original pump that worked) clean it and install it in your new pump.... and make sure the little piston/cup moves freely

Re: It's in, running ,has too high oil pressure**UPDATE [Re: MR_P_BODY] #702621 05/24/10 11:24 PM 05/24/10 11:24 PM
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,880 USA Ron Silva top fuel
Ron Silva top fuel Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,880 USA	I think you said you changed the bearings? I think you literally have a good tight engine and you have to go to a standad volume Pump. You have too little flow required and the PP bypass cannot handle it. Basic physics. Most race engines in the past used big bearing clearances and big if not huge rod side clearances and needed the high volume PP. You probably have stacked all your clearances to the small side. I sure hope you did not do all that work and put another HV pump in there. Sorry if you did. So your bearing clearances are nice and tight and possibly the Rod side clearances. Main Rod and rod side clearances affect oil pressure the most. Well rod side clearances could affect pressure if they were way too tight. Be sure and check them. Last edited by dragrcr97; 05/24/10 11:27 PM. SRT DEMON ONE SEAT

Re: It's in, running and has too high oil pressure??? [Re: dc426] #702622 05/25/10 08:32 AM 05/25/10 08:32 AM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,466 malvern, ohio 3 3ddart pro stock
3ddart pro stock 3 Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,466 malvern, ohio

Re: It's in, running ,has too high oil pressure**UPDATE [Re: MR_P_BODY] #702623 05/25/10 09:02 AM 05/25/10 09:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,695 nc E emarine01 master
emarine01 master E Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,695 nc	Quote: I really dont think its you... sounds like they have a by-pass spring issue.... you put on 2 different pumps only to have the same issue... I would say that takes you out of the problem... you could cut the by-pass spring down some.... or take the spring out of your old pump(from the original pump that worked) clean it and install it in your new pump.... and make sure the little piston/cup moves freely We had the same problem with HV melling in our small block, we swaped springs from a old pump and have 64 psi just about all the time, when the oil gets real hot it falls to 45 @ idle and goes right back to 64 with any rpm increase, good luck , pullin the pan was a PITA but solved the problem

Re: It's in, running ,has too high oil pressure**UPDATE [Re: emarine01] #702624 05/25/10 03:49 PM 05/25/10 03:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,466 malvern, ohio 3 3ddart pro stock
3ddart pro stock 3 Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,466 malvern, ohio	i'm trying to keep this on the 1st page so it's easy to find as i talked to the tech at melling again and told him to check it out. hopefully if there is a problem with the pumps they will address the issues!!! dave

Re: It's in, running ,has too high oil pressure**UPDATE [Re: 3ddart] #702625 05/25/10 10:29 PM 05/25/10 10:29 PM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 892 USA K krw71ragtop super stock
krw71ragtop super stock K Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 892 USA	Look what 100 psi did to the filter on the left. I consider myself lucky I cought it. 416" sb 6003210-HPIM0116.JPG (91 downloads) Last edited by krw71ragtop; 05/25/10 10:36 PM.

Re: It's in, running ,has too high oil pressure**UPDATE [Re: krw71ragtop] #702626 05/25/10 10:35 PM 05/25/10 10:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,115 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,115 Bend,OR USA	I have split a filter open with 100 lbs+ pressure, makes a mess Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: It's in, running ,has too high oil pressure**UPDATE [Re: Cab_Burge] #702627 06/05/10 09:07 AM 06/05/10 09:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,466 malvern, ohio 3 3ddart pro stock
3ddart pro stock 3 Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,466 malvern, ohio	just a quick up-date on my "too high oil pressure" issue. i waited till thursday of this week to hear back from george (the tech at melling), who was going to send me a "speced" out pump so i could eliminate the pump as being the problem. points were supposed to start this weekend so i wanted to be at the track to race so i installed the used pump i took out during the freshing of the motor and the high oil pressure problem has dissappeared (as i thought it would) motor now shows 65 lbs @ idle and goes to 75 when rpms are increased. sure looks like my contingency winnings were 2 falty pumps. i still am of the opinion that they need to be made aware of these problems (by the masses), they may be in denial but hopefully they will fix this issue. that or who else makes oil pumps for small block mopes? 1 source said ray barton said melling does not make the mopar performance 1s, but mp quality issues don't let me sleep well at nite either lol. dave

Re: It's in, running ,has too high oil pressure**UPDATE [Re: 3ddart] #702628 06/05/10 09:37 AM 06/05/10 09:37 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 5,000 Tampa Florida dc426 OP gotta keep'm separated
dc426 OP gotta keep'm separated Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 5,000 Tampa Florida	*update* I changed to 5W-30 and made 16 passes with the car. When I first fire it up it's up there around 85+ but when it warms up it is 65 at idle. Wide open throttle making a pass it's 80 and after a pass coming back on the return road it's 50. So for now, I'm gonna leave it.

Re: It's in, running ,has too high oil pressure**UPDATE [Re: dc426] #702629 06/05/10 10:24 AM 06/05/10 10:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,466 malvern, ohio 3 3ddart pro stock
3ddart pro stock 3 Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,466 malvern, ohio	dc: i'm using the partial syth. brad penn 10/30 so i don't think it caused the problem. also i checked the rod clearence while changing the pump and it was .017. my pressure with the 2nd new pump was over 100 lbs when revving the motor. i'll run the old pump but would like some options for the future. dave

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