Neoprene reverse rotation 318 rear main seal & unicorns
#695854
05/12/10 01:52 PM
05/12/10 01:52 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6
Virginia
tleed
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I have a reverse rotation Chrysler 318 in a marine application. I replaced the original block with a 1990 roller cam Dakota block. When it was recently rebuilt, the mechanic used a rope seal like the original design. It leaks like a sieve and the engine compartment is covered in oil. Not so good.
I would like to change to a neoprene seal, but I do not think a neoprene reverse rotation seal was ever used by the factory in 318's, so you can't get one today, as far as I know.
I would be ecstatic if someone would tell me I'm wrong and provide me with a manufacturer and a part number.
In the alternative, I'm wondering if the 318 shares its rear main seal design and/or dimensions with any other block (Mopar or otherwise) that did use a reverse rotation rear main seal. Like, were there any industrial 318's that were reverse rotation?
Also, can anybody provide me with the dimensions of the factory 318 seal? I do have a supplier (a boat guy) who knows a manufacturer who might be able to find a matching reverse rotation seal if I can supply the dimensions. He came pretty close to matching a reverse-rotation small-block Ford that way.
Of course I could go back with a rope seal, but the engine is out of the boat at the moment and I'd like to go with neoprene while I'm going to the trouble.
BTW, apparently the issue of rear main seals and standard v. reverse rotation is that there are hash marks on the neoprene seal that are oriented in a certain direction to direct the oil back into the crankcase. They would have to be oriented in the opposite direction for a reverse rotation crank. Apparently that's the only difference between the two seals.
And, no, I can't change over to standard rotation.
-Thomas
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Re: Neoprene reverse rotation 318 rear main seal & unic
[Re: tleed]
#695858
05/12/10 02:49 PM
05/12/10 02:49 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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I did a reverse 360--just polished all the hash marks off the crank and went with a std rubber seal--no problems
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Re: Neoprene reverse rotation 318 rear main seal & unic
[Re: moparts]
#695860
05/12/10 06:38 PM
05/12/10 06:38 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
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Virginia
tleed
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Crabman173, are you saying you can use the neoprene seal on a reverse rotation crank? The hash marks I was talking about are on the seal itself, not on the crank. You're saying you took the hash marks off the crank, but you're not saying you altered the rubber seal? How can you be sure the sealing surface will last, even if it's working good for now?
Incidentally, in my marine application (1974 Correct Craft Southwind 18), the engine is mounted at a relatively steep angle several degrees from horizontal. (It's a full inboard.) So I think it has more oil sitting up against the seal, both under power and sitting still.
And, Crabman173, was your reverse rotation 360 for a marine application? If not, what did it go into?
Last edited by tleed; 05/12/10 06:42 PM.
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Re: Neoprene reverse rotation 318 rear main seal & unic
[Re: tleed]
#695861
05/12/10 07:20 PM
05/12/10 07:20 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,249
Las Vegas
JeffC
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Quote:
Thanks, Jeff, but what that ad doesn't say is that the out-of-stock gasket set has a reverse-rotation rope seal, not a neoprene one. Trust me, if it were that easy to find one, I wouldn't be here asking.
No problem, next time I wont waste my time trying to help you out.
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Re: Neoprene reverse rotation 318 rear main seal & unic
[Re: JeffC]
#695862
05/12/10 08:11 PM
05/12/10 08:11 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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The one I did was boat--the hash marks on the seal did not matter--I even forgot they were there--I polished the hash marks off the crank-because the rubber does not need them and one time I had a BIG leak on a 440 --turned out it was a boat crank and the reverse hash marks pumped it out like crazy so I just took the extra step on my boat unit of polishing them off for extra piece of mind--The angle really hurts you--oil up against the seal all the time is TROUBLE--make sure you have a good PCV--that little bit of vacuum can be a big help IMO on that application--I would think a rope seal would be better in that engine but a good install on one is hard without the right tools and technique ( all but forgotten now )
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Re: Neoprene reverse rotation 318 rear main seal & unic
[Re: JeffC]
#695863
05/12/10 09:36 PM
05/12/10 09:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,150
lewiston, ID
cornucopia
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,150
lewiston, ID
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Quote:
Quote:
Thanks, Jeff, but what that ad doesn't say is that the out-of-stock gasket set has a reverse-rotation rope seal, not a neoprene one. Trust me, if it were that easy to find one, I wouldn't be here asking.
No problem, next time I wont waste my time trying to help you out.
nice reply...  glad you're not my neighbor...have a nice day.
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Re: Neoprene reverse rotation 318 rear main seal & unic
[Re: RapidRobert]
#695866
05/13/10 06:55 AM
05/13/10 06:55 AM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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The sealant is not for the rope--it is for the sides of the seal holder--it is a great tube of goo--way better than RTV--old timers soaked the seal in oil overnight but now the ropes are impregneated with a graphite powder so no soak needed but do oil it well--cutting the rope to length after the install in one half is the hard part--after it is in the engine will be hard to turn but it will get better real fast after it runs a minute--run the engine before it goes back in the boat--I have ( knock wood) never had any small block rear seal leak--can't say the same for BB (  ) Good luck
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Re: Neoprene reverse rotation 318 rear main seal & unic
[Re: ]
#695867
05/13/10 01:36 PM
05/13/10 01:36 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6
Virginia
tleed
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I did some looking around for Victor Reinz sealants. No auto parts stores near me carry the sealants. Is that something that comes in a seal "kit"?
Do you just use the sealant on the corners of the block only when you use a rope seal, or do you also seal the corners with RTV/sealant when you use a neoprene seal, too?
As far as cutting the rope seal goes, yeah, you're supposed to cut it to length when you install it. You're supposed to cut it a little bit long so it compresses a little when you put the bearing halves together. But how do you tell how much is enough? You're dealing with rope that's stretchable. Any tips for getting just the right amount of extra rope?
Last edited by tleed; 05/13/10 01:39 PM.
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Re: Neoprene reverse rotation 318 rear main seal & unic
[Re: tleed]
#695868
05/13/10 03:14 PM
05/13/10 03:14 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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Quote:
I did some looking around for Victor Reinz sealants. No auto parts stores near me carry the sealants. Is that something that comes in a seal "kit"?
yes the tube of VR sealant came w the rope seal in a kit for a SB. (rope/sealant/instructions for the sealant, not the rope install)
Last edited by RapidRobert; 05/13/10 03:14 PM.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Neoprene reverse rotation 318 rear main seal & unic
[Re: cornucopia]
#695869
05/13/10 04:47 PM
05/13/10 04:47 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,249
Las Vegas
JeffC
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pro stock
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Thanks, Jeff, but what that ad doesn't say is that the out-of-stock gasket set has a reverse-rotation rope seal, not a neoprene one. Trust me, if it were that easy to find one, I wouldn't be here asking.
No problem, next time I wont waste my time trying to help you out.
nice reply... glad you're not my neighbor...have a nice day.
All I did was ask if that was what the original poster was looking for. Its not what he wants, thats fine all he had to say was "no thats not what I need" but instead I get a smart-ass condescending responce.
Im more than happy to try to help people out, but if there gonna be a dick about it Im done.
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Re: Neoprene reverse rotation 318 rear main seal & unic
[Re: JeffC]
#695870
05/13/10 08:13 PM
05/13/10 08:13 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6
Virginia
tleed
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JeffC, I ignored your first offensive post, but now you've attacked me twice. You used vulgar language the second time, and falsely accused me of trying to be insulting. Trust me, if it were intentional, there would be no doubt that I had insulted you. It's really not very courteous of you to try to convert a discussion about reverse rotation 318 rear main seals into a personal attack on me. Please show me the courtesy of refraining from continuing that endeavor.
Moreover, if you read what I wrote very closely with an open mind, and impose a different set of vocal inflections on it other than "condescending", then you might realize I was just being "familiar" or "cordial". You might also discover there's a subtle compliment waiting for anybody to claim who steps forward with sufficient expertise or knowledge to supply a helpful answer.
If you're going to participate in a forum like this, it's helpful to recognize that it's an imperfect mode of communication. You can't see facial expressions or hear vocal inflections, which provide subtle, but important, clues to meaning. Everybody here is taking shortcuts when they jot down quick replies. So of course if you want to find offensive posts, you don't have to look very long.
But attacking each other's integrity or impugning each other's motives ultimately just drives people away who might otherwise be valuable contributors to the list. After all, we're here to talk about Mopars, aren't we? Not posting etiquette, right?
So let's get back to rear main seals and Forward Look Windsor hearses. They're much more fun to discuss.
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Re: Neoprene reverse rotation 318 rear main seal & unic
[Re: tleed]
#695871
05/14/10 02:26 PM
05/14/10 02:26 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,249
Las Vegas
JeffC
pro stock
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pro stock
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Quote:
JeffC, I ignored your first offensive post, but now you've attacked me twice. You used vulgar language the second time, and falsely accused me of trying to be insulting. Trust me, if it were intentional, there would be no doubt that I had insulted you. It's really not very courteous of you to try to convert a discussion about reverse rotation 318 rear main seals into a personal attack on me. Please show me the courtesy of refraining from continuing that endeavor.
Moreover, if you read what I wrote very closely with an open mind, and impose a different set of vocal inflections on it other than "", then you might realize I was just being "familiar" or "cordial". You might also discover there's a subtle compliment waiting for anybody to claim who steps forward with sufficient expertise or knowledge to supply a helpful answer.
If you're going to participate in a forum like this, it's helpful to recognize that it's an imperfect mode of communication. You can't see facial expressions or hear vocal inflections, which provide subtle, but important, clues to meaning. Everybody here is taking shortcuts when they jot down quick replies. So of course if you want to find offensive posts, you don't have to look very long.
But attacking each other's integrity or impugning each other's motives ultimately just drives people away who might otherwise be valuable contributors to the list. After all, we're here to talk about Mopars, aren't we? Not posting etiquette, right?
So let's get back to rear main seals and Forward Look Windsor hearses. They're much more fun to discuss.
Quote:
Thanks, Jeff, but what that ad doesn't say is that the out-of-stock gasket set has a reverse-rotation rope seal, not a neoprene one. Trust me, if it were that easy to find one, I wouldn't be here asking
Your responce sounds awfully condescending, That was not your intention so I do apologize.
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Re: Neoprene reverse rotation 318 rear main seal & unic
[Re: tleed]
#695872
05/14/10 04:39 PM
05/14/10 04:39 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
gdonovan
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I Live Here
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Oakdale CT
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Quote:
Ok, I went to a local expert mechanic: an older retired fellow here who's done plenty of rope seals himself. He told me the same thing Crabman173 is telling me: the hash marks on the neoprene seal itself don't matter.
I will politely point out that Chrysler had a reverse rotaion cam seal for 2.2 engines with hash marks going the reverse direction.
The cam ran off the front of the head, the air pump off the rear.
If you put the seals in the wrong end or two front seals in you would have a leak.
There are no hash marks on the cam but the hash marks on the seals DO make a difference.
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