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Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: NITROUSN] #69464
06/09/08 10:51 PM
06/09/08 10:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,251
Slidell, LA
Ronnman Offline
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Ronnman  Offline
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I'm not referring to Ford or GM, the original post here is about an e-body, Mopar. While I have seen the happy people post, far and few between, I have seen way too many giving bad feedback. And, I'm talking folks who posted pics with some of there problems, so I think they own one. I just think for the +$4K you should expect to get what is advertised. Do you ever here anyone complaining about Gearvendor's product as frequent as Kiesler's product? I haven't. The Keisler proponents here always blame this or that, the guys a shadetree mechanic or whatever. But mercman1 seems to be on top of his part of the problem.
Ron

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: Ronnman] #69465
06/09/08 11:00 PM
06/09/08 11:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,153
Mass
DAYCLONA Offline
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Quote:

I've got to go with mecman1 on this one. I just read through the latest Mopar Muscle Mag and there is the classic Keisler ad and I quote "Get the total package with Keisler---1) "Lowers engine RPM", 2) "Easy Installation", 3)"Extended engine life, 4) "More gears, uncompromised performance", 5) "All necessary components", and 6) "Highest quality parts". I guess 3 or 4 out of 6 isn't bad----------------- if you are a batter. I for one will never purchase anything from Keisler. Too much bad feedback here on Moparts. I've read Keiler's replys to posts and they seems to care. But, for the money people are laying down, don't sugar coat the product to cover the downside. Just my 2 cents.
Ron

PS: Why is every picture I see of XV Motorsport's ads, show the cars driving in the rain?






Ron, as far as XV's wet ads.....thats from their first eastcoast "track day"......I like using their photo of my car.....end of story, plus it hard for me to take pics and drive at the same time



And as far as your quote of the Keisler ad,.......I get 6 out of 6,.....I make dam sure of it!


I'm not "candy coating" any downside,....and.I'm not denying Mercman or others may have a problem?......where Mercmans problem lies, who knows, we can only speculate?......however .003 thou.......I'll take the time for .001-.001 1/2, I've found that the flywheel/ clutch, and bell need to be within min. tolerances, machining tolerances are VERY tight on the Keisler/TKO,.......plus Mercman, how many miles are on your tranny?......the Keisler/TKO is horrid the first few 100-250 miles for shifting/engagement, forget reverse!.....after 500-750 miles it's more fluid, .......more time/ break in, may be required.......I know the first Keisler/TKO, I put in shifted so bad, I felt like pulling it out and grinding it down to dust!......but after giving it some break in time,......Dam! it was awesome!......and I've been hooked on Keisler/TKO's since,........I could sit here and tell you all the "woes" that I've had with Gear Vendors and how they couldn't give me a free unit!.......I wish Keisler would give me a free tranny....Shafi? .....seriously if I had a problem with Keisler or any vendor, I'd be "ranting" also....Keisler sells me the same tranny that everyone else gets, I get the same service........but after QUITE a few trannies from them, I've yet to get a lemon?.....not saying it can't happen,.....hell I think their only human too, prone to mistakes?......Mercman as far as the trany hitting the floor, I agree, the TKO is tall upfront vs the 833, the floor needs to be massaged or gring some excess webs/ tabs off the case?.....it's what "hotrodding" is about, make it fit.......any salesman will tell you, bolt-on, snap-on, drop-in, etc,......hell even the "snap-to-gether" model kits we had as kids had issuses!......Mercman if your adamant about pulling your Keisler, do so......sell it and move on.....it's not for you?......on the other hand, before throwing in the "towel", go over your install, or reinstall, hell, you won't be the only one!.....if your tranny needs more breakin time,....work it man,.....serious, they need to be broken in, like a virgin on prom nite!




Ron, here's a "dry" track day at Atlanta Motor Speedway in Georgia

4479049-0609day5.jpg (253 downloads)
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: DAYCLONA] #69466
06/09/08 11:15 PM
06/09/08 11:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,251
Slidell, LA
Ronnman Offline
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Ronnman  Offline
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Posts: 1,251
Slidell, LA
I was just kidding about the cars in the rain pics, every ad that I see the cars are in the rain.

You obviously have had experience with the Keisler installs. But it is interesting that there are some installs that need to be broke in. Is this the experience that the "Happy Folks" have had with the Tremec 5 speed? Just trying to get a concensus here.
Ron

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: Ronnman] #69467
06/09/08 11:17 PM
06/09/08 11:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,389
UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
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NITROUSN Offline
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UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
Quote:

Do you ever here anyone complaining about Gearvendor's product as frequent as Kiesler's product?




I see complaints. The gear vendors is not without issues. Like I said lots of people jump on the bashing wagon but how many walk the walk.

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: NITROUSN] #69468
06/09/08 11:22 PM
06/09/08 11:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,251
Slidell, LA
Ronnman Offline
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Ronnman  Offline
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Well right now mercman1 is walking the walk and he's $4k in the hole for walking it. It is good to here ALL's opinion here,including the good experieinces. That way, folks can make a judgement call as to if they want to walk that path.
Ron

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: Ronnman] #69469
06/09/08 11:27 PM
06/09/08 11:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 797
arizona, usa
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lokalik Offline
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i installed the 5spd in my 70 b body. had to modify the tranny tunnel, that was unexpected. the shifter handle shakes back and forth sometimes, in 3rd and 4th. also you cannot slam 2nd to 3rd. this has to be a slow shift. i can go 2nd to 5th fast but not 2nd to 3rd. richard has offered to repair this at no cost. all i have to do is remove it and return it. however, this is driving season (we have bad winters) so this winter i will pull it down and return it. richard has been the best to deal with at keisler.

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: Ronnman] #69470
06/09/08 11:33 PM
06/09/08 11:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,153
Mass
DAYCLONA Offline
I Live Here
DAYCLONA  Offline
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Mass
Quote:

I'm not referring to Ford or GM, the original post here is about an e-body, Mopar. While I have seen the happy people post, far and few between, I have seen way too many giving bad feedback. And, I'm talking folks who posted pics with some of there problems, so I think they own one. I just think for the +$4K you should expect to get what is advertised. Do you ever here anyone complaining about Gearvendor's product as frequent as Kiesler's product? I haven't. The Keisler proponents here always blame this or that, the guys a shadetree mechanic or whatever. But mercman1 seems to be on top of his part of the problem.
Ron





Ron,.....most people when "disparaged", will rant on anything!......very few people pay a compliment to a vendor,......ask me I know firsthand!......they feel, I paid for it, bye!....that's ok!...hey that's business, I'll admit that I know Shafi and his crew very well, although that dosen't intitle me to perks! ........if you knew the volume of Keisler/TKO's that are sold, vs the "complaints", it would probally amount to 1% of their sales,....seriously( if you only knew!) they move a tremendous amount of "product" to GM, Ford, Mopar, and Jag owners, hell of a product, and business.....they are enthuisast, motorheads like the rest of us,.....not "snake oil" salesman like some like to portray them as!.....




Ron,....heres another "dry" trackday, powershifting at @ 6000 or so RPM.....I usally get thrown off tracks because I drive like a madman!....seriously.....in fact, I remember this day, I was told to "behave"

4479149-lead.jpg (390 downloads)
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you [Re: lokalik] #69471
06/09/08 11:36 PM
06/09/08 11:36 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,609
Southern Oklahoma
wildman340 Offline
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The Mustang guys on the net say to change to better shifters, like the Pro 5.0, to get better shifting, esp: the 2-3 shift.


1974 Dodge Dart Sport 340 4 Spd Endless Project 1999 Ram 1500 CC 5.2 5 speed
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you [Re: wildman340] #69472
06/09/08 11:46 PM
06/09/08 11:46 PM
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arizona, usa
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lokalik Offline
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i wonder if the pro 5.0 is the upgrade richard was talking about?

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: lokalik] #69473
06/09/08 11:51 PM
06/09/08 11:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,153
Mass
DAYCLONA Offline
I Live Here
DAYCLONA  Offline
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Mass
Quote:

i installed the 5spd in my 70 b body. had to modify the tranny tunnel, that was unexpected. the shifter handle shakes back and forth sometimes, in 3rd and 4th. also you cannot slam 2nd to 3rd. this has to be a slow shift. i can go 2nd to 5th fast but not 2nd to 3rd. richard has offered to repair this at no cost. all i have to do is remove it and return it. however, this is driving season (we have bad winters) so this winter i will pull it down and return it. richard has been the best to deal with at keisler.







Jim, you probally have a first "gen" shift tower, they leave a lot to be desired, the 3 rd gen shift tower you can do in the car, 2 allen screws, install the tower "straight" in, with the shifter nub, in neutral, as well as the tranny, make sure the machined flat, for the shifter goes towards the drivers side, you can accidentally install it 180 degrees, it will offset your shifter about 1 inch, watch out.......as far as the 2-3 shift, it's the nature of the "beast", with the 833, you could ram the shifter into gear, try doing that with the TKO's 2-3 shift, you get locked out, you got to learn to resist jammimg into gear,.....my Daytona was the "mule" for the prototype 68-70 B body install as well as Keislers 70 console pistol grip shifter, I told Shafi the floor needs to be cut, but he insisted oterwise, in fact I prefere to cut the floor in any application A<B<E regardless of fit, and you can toss that pc of sheetmetal they supply, and put a real "factory" 4 spd hump in it!.....Jim are you using the "console" or bench seat Pistol grip?.......and Jim the 3rd Gen shift tower is like nite and day, it will greatly improve your trannies shifting

Last edited by DAYCLONA; 06/09/08 11:55 PM.
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: lokalik] #69474
06/09/08 11:52 PM
06/09/08 11:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,144
ontario calif
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ns1aar Offline
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ontario calif
I tried to put one in my AAR.I was told I might have to cut the floor.I did that as that could be returned to stock.But when I got it in the driveline angle was wrong,clutch linkage didn't align properly and my engine sat low in the back.The only way to remedie this was to shim the k frame lower or cut the cross member in the tunnel.I was not willing to do any of these.I gave them measurments from the trans mount to the top of the tunnel to help out with the problem but as far as I know there has never been a fix.I quit asking.I did not have the only AAR to have these issues.I would assume that T/A's might have the same problems.I did offer up the car to check fitment,they have a dealer close to me,but they woudn't take me up on it.Search ns1aar and something might come up from a couple of years back.There is a member here that had these problems and did some serious hollering and got a refund.I do need to give Keisler some credit though they did take back the kit and refunded me everything except shipping.Using the Passons OD now.Bolts right in every thing aligns and all is well


NS1AAR
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: mercman1] #69475
06/09/08 11:59 PM
06/09/08 11:59 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 546
Stuart FL
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mercman1 Offline OP
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Stuart FL
When the original throw out brg exploded @ 300 miles I had already pulled the tranny in and out 6 or 8 times due to them sending me the wrong clutch assy. Then issues with the clutch master cyl(up grade #1 = more$$$$). that resolved then exploded throw out brg (upgrade #2 = more $$$$)Trans breaks an input shaft and car must be trailered home. Trans shipped to Kiesler on my dime = more $$$$ The trans was also jumping out of 4th gear, and so several failures all by 300 miles. I did not ever throw Keisler under the bus...I dealt with them and they with me in a very professional manner. Yes things like this happened and Richard at tech support was excellent, even to the point of working with me on Saturdays and Sundays. God bless him!I now have 1100 or so miles on it and not sure how much longer the turd needs to be rubed on. This is a forum where we share information and we appreciate every one who post. Thats how we get our cars to be better. I just felt I needed to post for others who may have a valuable car or just do not feel happy doing irreversable mods to a car on how this product has not worked for my application. Several have asked if the system is for sale and it is. PM me. Thanks to all that posted one way or the other.

4479228-DSCN2051.JPG (347 downloads)
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: ns1aar] #69476
06/10/08 12:09 AM
06/10/08 12:09 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,153
Mass
DAYCLONA Offline
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DAYCLONA  Offline
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Well depending on when you bought your kit, the early installs left a lot to be desired, the driveline angle was horrible, linkage alignment wasn't any better,.......but the last few years, the "crew" at Keisler's engineering has grown, better designs/ products have been developed to "correct" the past "errors" or "development issuses",....esp in machining more excess off the case, better shifter locations, and shifters, as well as complete tranny crossmember mounts, to address the anglement issuses,......back in the day, you had to cobble your exsisting tranny crossmember until nothing was left to it.....the last few B/E installs were trully "bolt-in", the only correction was a driveline phasing, acomplished with rear axle perch shims from about 1-3 degress increase, available from Mopar Performance, just like you'd use if running SS springs, and needed to dial in the 3rd member

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: DAYCLONA] #69477
06/10/08 12:10 AM
06/10/08 12:10 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 797
arizona, usa
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lokalik Offline
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i had to cut a big hole in my floor. i'm using the bench seat pistolgrip, the car already had a factory 4spd hump. perhaps i can talk richard out of a shift tower . i learned after a couple of missed shifts not to jam 2nd to 3rd. thanks for the info. nite all .

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: mercman1] #69478
06/10/08 12:16 AM
06/10/08 12:16 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 546
Stuart FL
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mercman1 Offline OP
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Stuart FL
For those that think shifter location is an option...it is not unless you want to do MAJOR surgery. On an E-body the shifter does not enter the top of the trans and move the rail directly... it mounts to a bracket bolted to the rear of the trans.A clevis type device (red arrow) moves the rail (green arrow)I also had a lot of shifter shake which Kiesler repaired for me while the trans was in for repairs.

4479256-ebodyshifter.JPG (1523 downloads)
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: mercman1] #69479
06/10/08 12:18 AM
06/10/08 12:18 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,153
Mass
DAYCLONA Offline
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DAYCLONA  Offline
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Well best of luck to you Mercman, nice T/A......hope your next install is your final install, and all works well for you appreciated your input.......

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: mercman1] #69480
06/10/08 12:40 AM
06/10/08 12:40 AM

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welcome to the world off the aftermarket. with that said..
definitly sounds like a misalignment problem somewhere.
no doubt you got the skills to pay the bills, but you are
missing something in this case.

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you [Re: mercman1] #69481
06/10/08 01:26 AM
06/10/08 01:26 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 730
Nampa, ID
MadMatt Offline
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MadMatt  Offline
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Nampa, ID
I've read this whole thread with great interest, because I have been contemplating the swap from 727 to TKO600 for quite a while. I'm just wondering if all the problems cited are related to units from Keisler. Has anyone used a kit from Classic Mopar 5-speed? Is there any difference in their units? Do they have the same sort of problems?


Some see the glass as half empty, some see the glass as half full. I just drink straight out of the bottle.
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you [Re: mercman1] #69482
06/10/08 09:24 AM
06/10/08 09:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 827
twin cities
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dart_sportsatellite Offline
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twin cities
Quote:

I have all intentions of taking this on a road course (15 miutes from Moroso and 1.5 hrs from Sebring) hence the QA1 adjustables on all 4 corners and the Goodyear Formula 1 rain tires. I need to get it to shift at rpm first. Small block with W-2s and a roller cam need rpm to make horsepower.




A whole lot of non factory parts for a "restored" car...

Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you [Re: dart_sportsatellite] #69483
06/10/08 10:02 AM
06/10/08 10:02 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
Clair_Davis Offline
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Fort Worth, TX
Nothing but "wear items" than can be R&R'd pretty easily if/when the time comes. Unlike sectioned or hammered floorpans.

Clair

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