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{{{{{ J-HEAD MACHING QUESTIONS - LONG }}}}} #686317
05/02/10 09:20 AM
05/02/10 09:20 AM
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Lehigh Acres, Florida
rickstershemi Offline OP
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OK, I bought the 64 Valiant and am seriously looking into building a 318/390 Stroker 4-Speed Combo for it. In trying to keep this build as economical as possible I took my J-Heads 2.02/1.60 Heavily Ported heads to a local machinist to inspect, this is what I have according to him:

1. They cleaned up well and no cracks found.

2. He was very impressed with the previous porting job, one of the best on this type of head that he's seen and should flow well enough to easily support the 500hp target of this combo.

3. They do have not have hardened seats.

4. Will need to be milled approx. 0.20 on the deck and intake face to clean up.

5. Will need valves, bronze valve guides and complete valve gear....for max 600" Lift. (Hydraulic Flat Tappet)

The price he quoted for the valve gear seemed to be in line, but the machine-work seemed extremely excessive to me......

Not having had anything done like this in many years.....what are your thoughts as to a $$$$$$$ dollar figure for this work....????????

He didn't include hardened seats installed due to us both agreeing it wouldn't be needed for a limited use combo...???????

I know this is kinda long, but would sure appreciate the input....please, don't flood this thread with just by some aluminum heads, I can figure that part out myself after getting an idea on the cost of doing these heads

Rickster

Re: {{{{{ J-HEAD MACHING QUESTIONS - LONG }}}}} [Re: rickstershemi] #686318
05/02/10 09:36 AM
05/02/10 09:36 AM
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tboomer Offline
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Are they at The Engine Works??


The end is near.....
Re: {{{{{ J-HEAD MACHING QUESTIONS - LONG }}}}} [Re: tboomer] #686319
05/02/10 09:40 AM
05/02/10 09:40 AM
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Lehigh Acres, Florida
rickstershemi Offline OP
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Quote:

Are they at The Engine Works??




Naw....I'm looking for these to actually work

Rickster

Re: {{{{{ J-HEAD MACHING QUESTIONS - LONG }}}}} [Re: rickstershemi] #686320
05/02/10 10:03 AM
05/02/10 10:03 AM
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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So what will he be doing on these heads... give us a
break down... I see milling, guides, valves(what brand)
valve job... what else

Re: {{{{{ J-HEAD MACHING QUESTIONS - LONG }}}}} [Re: MR_P_BODY] #686321
05/02/10 10:14 AM
05/02/10 10:14 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 9,366
Lehigh Acres, Florida
rickstershemi Offline OP
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Quote:

So what will he be doing on these heads... give us a
break down... I see milling, guides, valves(what brand)
valve job... what else





Should have just limited my request to machine work maybe: milling decks, guides, cutting seats for springs (needed for 600"...???) valve job...what am I missing...?????

As far as parts: valves, springs, retainers, keepers, shafts, rockers....nothing exotic...looking for what you guys think a ballpark cost would be in todays market...??????

Rickster

Re: {{{{{ J-HEAD MACHING QUESTIONS - LONG }}}}} [Re: rickstershemi] #686322
05/02/10 11:00 AM
05/02/10 11:00 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 119
Massachusetts, USA
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Quote:

OK, I bought the 64 Valiant and am seriously looking into building a 318/390 Stroker 4-Speed Combo for it. In trying to keep this build as economical as possible I took my J-Heads 2.02/1.60 Heavily Ported heads to a local machinist to inspect, this is what I have according to him:

1. They cleaned up well and no cracks found.

2. He was very impressed with the previous porting job, one of the best on this type of head that he's seen and should flow well enough to easily support the 500hp target of this combo.

3. They do have not have hardened seats.

4. Will need to be milled approx. 0.20 on the deck and intake face to clean up.

5. Will need valves, bronze valve guides and complete valve gear....for max 600" Lift. (Hydraulic Flat Tappet)

The price he quoted for the valve gear seemed to be in line, but the machine-work seemed extremely excessive to me......

Not having had anything done like this in many years.....what are your thoughts as to a $$$$$$$ dollar figure for this work....????????

He didn't include hardened seats installed due to us both agreeing it wouldn't be needed for a limited use combo...???????

I know this is kinda long, but would sure appreciate the input....please, don't flood this thread with just by some aluminum heads, I can figure that part out myself after getting an idea on the cost of doing these heads

Rickster




Starting with clean disassembled heads:

Guide liners, multi-angle valve job, Mill/resurface, assemble. Without actually seeing them, I would get around $400 plus parts for that. machining spring pads would be additional.

You cannot do a good valve job with worn guides. You shouldn't need new exhaust seats unless there's already some serious seat recession.


official member of the Sleepy Labeef band alumni club.
Re: {{{{{ J-HEAD MACHING QUESTIONS - LONG }}}}} [Re: maxeffort] #686323
05/02/10 11:18 AM
05/02/10 11:18 AM
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St. Paul , Mn.
tubtar Offline
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Man.........it seems to be awful close to " should I buy un cut Eddies " territory.
I could see it running well north of a grand with no problem after parts.
I know Eddies don't come with shafts or rockers , but it will be close enough that the benefits of an alloy head offset the price tag.

Re: {{{{{ J-HEAD MACHING QUESTIONS - LONG }}}}} [Re: rickstershemi] #686324
05/02/10 12:53 PM
05/02/10 12:53 PM
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Tampa , Fl
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I have $600 in the machine work on some #302's I did last year, if I didn't have all the valvetrain parts laying around already I would have went with LA-X's or edelbrocks.

The shop blamed it on inflation, I had them milled enough to straighten them up, cut for 1.88/1.60's, false guides installed, cut for PC seals and a 3 angle VJ, I assembled them myself but he would have done them for $100.

Re: {{{{{ J-HEAD MACHING QUESTIONS - LONG }}}}} [Re: MoparJoe] #686325
05/02/10 01:33 PM
05/02/10 01:33 PM
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Renton Washington
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Triple Threat Offline
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Its not very economical anymore to rebuild heads. I see a set of Edelbrocks or RHS heads from IMM in your future.


-Dustin
67 Dart, 9 second, 392" G3 Hemi
68 Barracuda 340 F/SA
Re: {{{{{ J-HEAD MACHING QUESTIONS - LONG }}}}} [Re: Triple Threat] #686326
05/02/10 02:04 PM
05/02/10 02:04 PM
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Between a rock & a hard place
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Quote:

Its not very economical anymore to rebuild heads. I see a set of Edelbrocks or RHS heads from IMM in your future.




Yep...what he said.

Quality Machine work here on the West Coast has become very expensive in the last decade. I would really consider an aftermarket head before spending more than a few hun on OEM heads. A set of RHS heads, complete with decent springs can be had for around a grand and will most likely WAY outflow those J heads.

The other thing to be looked at is that "impressive" porting job. FLOW BENCH!! Otherwise, you'll never KNOW what's going on there. Case in point: Just tore down a 340 bracket moder for a friend that had ported X heads. Whoever did them was as "artist". A really nice LOOKING job. Threw them on the bench and while the intakes flowed a little better than stockers, the exhaust was ALOT worse than stockers.

Looking forward to your progess on this project! Should be fun!!!

Re: {{{{{ J-HEAD MACHING QUESTIONS - LONG }}}}} [Re: cudadoug] #686327
05/02/10 10:32 PM
05/02/10 10:32 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 9,366
Lehigh Acres, Florida
rickstershemi Offline OP
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Quote:

Quote:

Its not very economical anymore to rebuild heads. I see a set of Edelbrocks or RHS heads from IMM in your future.




Yep...what he said.

Quality Machine work here on the West Coast has become very expensive in the last decade. I would really consider an aftermarket head before spending more than a few hun on OEM heads. A set of RHS heads, complete with decent springs can be had for around a grand and will most likely WAY outflow those J heads.

The other thing to be looked at is that "impressive" porting job. FLOW BENCH!! Otherwise, you'll never KNOW what's going on there. Case in point: Just tore down a 340 bracket moder for a friend that had ported X heads. Whoever did them was as "artist". A really nice LOOKING job. Threw them on the bench and while the intakes flowed a little better than stockers, the exhaust was ALOT worse than stockers.

Looking forward to your progess on this project! Should be fun!!!




My point exactly...if these heads flow upwards of 260-270 @ 600" is it worth the $$$ to have them refreshed....???? or will the difference in weight vs new aftermarket aluminum out-weigh the expense...???

Rickster

Re: {{{{{ J-HEAD MACHING QUESTIONS - LONG }}}}} [Re: rickstershemi] #686328
05/02/10 10:37 PM
05/02/10 10:37 PM
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MIKES_DUSTER Offline
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Im NO expert but if they flow 270@600,thats pretty good for a J head and I would think worth spending the money on.. You did say it was a "STREET" car...right??

Re: {{{{{ J-HEAD MACHING QUESTIONS - LONG }}}}} [Re: MIKES_DUSTER] #686329
05/02/10 11:12 PM
05/02/10 11:12 PM
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Lehigh Acres, Florida
rickstershemi Offline OP
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Quote:

Im NO expert but if they flow [Email]270@600[/Email],thats pretty good for a J head and I would think worth spending the money on.. You did say it was a "STREET" car...right??




Well lets just say they pretty much stall out in the 260 range @ 600"....but yeah, my train of thought has led me down this same path...but maybe those days just don't exist any longer.... I'd really like to use them...

Rickster

Re: {{{{{ J-HEAD MACHING QUESTIONS - LONG }}}}} [Re: rickstershemi] #686330
05/02/10 11:15 PM
05/02/10 11:15 PM
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Even 260 is good for a "STREET" motor!!! I would use them!!!

Re: {{{{{ J-HEAD MACHING QUESTIONS - LONG }}}}} [Re: MIKES_DUSTER] #686331
05/02/10 11:19 PM
05/02/10 11:19 PM
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Triple Threat Offline
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Without seeing them first hand no one is gonna be able to tell you if they'd be worth fixing up or not. A hogged out J head could go 230@600 or they might go 270@600 depending on who did the work.

If it was me, I would sell those heads to a purist or someone looking for a good stock head, and call Brian @IMM and get a set of RHS X heads coming your way. When it was time for a freshen on my Iron heads I yanked them off, sold them for $250 to a car show guy, and bought a set of Edelbrocks for the car.


-Dustin
67 Dart, 9 second, 392" G3 Hemi
68 Barracuda 340 F/SA
Re: {{{{{ J-HEAD MACHING QUESTIONS - LONG }}}}} [Re: Triple Threat] #686332
05/02/10 11:34 PM
05/02/10 11:34 PM
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MIKES_DUSTER Offline
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Quote:

Without seeing them first hand no one is gonna be able to tell you if they'd be worth fixing up or not. A hogged out J head could go [Email]230@600[/Email] or they might go [Email]270@600[/Email] depending on who did the work.

If it was me, I would sell those heads to a purist or someone looking for a good stock head, and call Brian @IMM and get a set of RHS X heads coming your way. When it was time for a freshen on my Iron heads I yanked them off, sold them for $250 to a car show guy, and bought a set of Edelbrocks for the car.




Who cares if they flow 230 or 270,its a "STREET" car. Say he sells them for $250.00,He then needs to come up with another $1000.00.
Rick,RUN'EM!!!!! LOL I am curious what they do flow though.

Re: {{{{{ J-HEAD MACHING QUESTIONS - LONG }}}}} [Re: MIKES_DUSTER] #686333
05/02/10 11:40 PM
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Triple Threat Offline
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He's gonna have to throw another $500-1000 at those old Iron heads to get them to a point where he can run them.

I'd rather have a brand new aluminum head, than a 40 year old piece of cast iron, even if it did cost me a few dollars more.

And you can throw your street car argument out the window if we're talking about what a head flows at 600. He obviously wants it to run hard.

Last edited by Triple Threat; 05/02/10 11:42 PM.

-Dustin
67 Dart, 9 second, 392" G3 Hemi
68 Barracuda 340 F/SA
Re: {{{{{ J-HEAD MACHING QUESTIONS - LONG }}}}} [Re: Triple Threat] #686334
05/02/10 11:54 PM
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Rickster, if they do go 260, that is a good, real good flowing J head. Have YOU had them flowed? If not, before you do anything else, do that so YOU KNOW. Also, look at the numbers BELOW .600" of lift. The cam spends the LEAST amount of time at the point of the cam lobe, so a "street" car needs good numbers down low. From .200" to .500" is where a good flowing set of heads perform on a streeter.

That said, if they do flow good numbers all around, AND if they pressure test/mag okay AND the valves aren't sunk too far in the chamber then yes...they might be worth running. New heads vs. 30-40 year old heads mean nothing as long as the structure of the old OEM heads is sound.

What was the cost you quoted to do the deal???

Re: {{{{{ J-HEAD MACHING QUESTIONS - LONG }}}}} [Re: cudadoug] #686335
05/03/10 09:12 PM
05/03/10 09:12 PM
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Lehigh Acres, Florida
rickstershemi Offline OP
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All valid points and thanks for all the input....I'm going to try and run these heads, have plenty of time for decisions so as suggested I will try and find someone local with a flow bench....the machinist that cleaned them up and mag'd them is pretty well respected in these parts (Nevin @ Collier Machine) long time friend I trust his assessment of the porting work, but think his prices are out of whack for my budget, so I have a few avenues to pursue that just might work out...

I'm gonna be buried up to my azz in work for the next three weeks away from home, so it's on the back burner until then I guess.

Looks like I will probably end up taking a quick trip to Texas once I get home to pick up the Valiant....I'm stoked

Rickster

Re: {{{{{ J-HEAD MACHING QUESTIONS - LONG }}}}} [Re: rickstershemi] #686336
05/03/10 09:34 PM
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Rick
I am a glutton for punishment and am running a set of heavily work over J-heads.
this being said..
IMHO..for consideration..
even ootb eddies or rhs-x heads..and others should still get blueprinted. which could intale guide work,valve seat work,and even milling?
so consider that
..i wouldnt say bolt any ootb head on..with out expecting to machine or fix something..
ofcourse you have to add these cost's to the price of new heads...fwiw.
cheapst


365" Iron J heads,,3480lbs best 1.39 60ft on SS springs.10.54,124 mph ...6.67 1/8th et.average 60fts 1.46 w/ small cam &.063 no2 pill tagged & insured
[image][/image]
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